Why am I not the body?

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EternalPrize
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Why am I not the body?

Post by EternalPrize » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:24 am

My own path has been incredibly stressful. There is still such an energy in me of needing to "prove myself," or needing to find out that I'm a legitimate, lovable person who is capable of taking care of himself, getting along with others, and trusting a sense of flow without having to constantly control and manage all my actions to ensure some success (which of course isn't as successful as trusting the flow). I am becoming increasingly tired with myself to the point where I feel like I want to fall on the floor and simply lie there, paralyzed, unable to move or expend any effort anymore.

With that said, this question is something I have been thinking about a lot lately and I am interested in hearing your responses as I want to gain a clearer understanding.

Thanks

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ashley72
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by ashley72 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:44 pm

Why I am not the body?

Others cannot give you answers to this question, this needs to be directly realised in the first person for a shift to occur. You need to do the experiment in person. Why you may ask? Well, because mental knowledge actually obscures the first person experience. This kind of knowledge is not mental it's (first person) direct- seeing.... as opposed to mentally acquired knowledge.

Turn the Arrow of attention around 180 degrees to where the head/face resides. What do you find? I find space for the other persons face... I don't find a solid head or face of my own here. It is awake space which is empty of anything... But at the same time a container of everything. It's always available nothing can be added or subtracted to this awake space.

This passage by Douglas Harding might give you further insight.
Only I am in a position to report on what's here. A kind of alert naivety is what I need. It takes an innocent eye and an empty head (not to mention a stout heart) to admit their own perfect emptiness.

Probably there is only one way of converting the sceptic who still says I've got a head here, and that is to invite him to come here and take a look for himself. But he must be an honest reporter, describing what he observes and nothing else.

Starting off on the far side of the room, he sees me as a full-length man-with-a-head. But as he approaches he finds half a man, then a head, then a blurred cheek or eye or nose, then a mere blur, and finally (at the point of contact) nothing at all. Alternatively, if he happens to be equipped with the necessary scientific instruments, he reports that the blur resolves itself into tissues, then cell-groups, then a single cell, a cell nucleus, giant molecules... and so on, until he comes to a place where nothing is to be seen, to space which is empty of all solid or material objects. In either case, the observer who comes here to see what it's really like finds what I find here -- vacancy. And if, having discovered and shared my non-entity here, he were to turn around (looking out with me instead of in at me) he would find again what I find -- that this vacancy is filled to capacity with the scene. He too would find this central Point exploding into an Infinite Volume, this Nothing into the All, this Here into Everywhere.  D.E. Harding
If you see yourself as the reflection in the mirror with a face and two eyes... you embrace this avatar... and you view the world with two eyes looking outwards all the time. But is this the only you? What about when you look in the opposite direction 18O degrees around to the centre point of your existence or zero point... The two eyes merge into one Single Eye.
If you have the idea that you are something with form, that you are limited by this body, and that being within this body you have to see through these eyes, God and the world also will appear to you as form. If you realise you are without form, that you are unlimited, that you alone exist, that you are the eye, the infinite eye, what is there to be seen apart from the infinite eye? Apart from the eye there is nothing to be seen. Ramana Maharshi. (Day by Day with Bhagavan. 18 April, 1946.)
The more one practices this kind of direct looking (turn arrow of attention 180 degrees) the more you find that this awake space is a constant. It's alway available. Doesn't come & go. What comes and goes are perceived "things" not the container of things which is the awake space.

What obscures the awake space is the arrow of attention loosing it's one-pointedness on the awake-space... the arrow of attention wants to look outwardly again on "things". To what comes and goes. This attachment to "things" causes suffering.

The more you can stay one-pointed on the awake space the better... because this is the unchanging "you" the constant "Self" which can be relied upon.

Two important quotes about one-pointedness on the awake space.
For even so a man that taketh a journey if he holdeth to one sure road, shall quickly make an end of his journey and of his toil. But if he essay many roads, he wandereth and maketh never an end of his toil, because of such wandering there is no end.  William of St. Thierry
And another...
When a man lacks discrimination, his will wanders in all directions, after innumerable aims. Those who lack discrimination may quote the letter of the scriptures, but they are really denying its inner truth Those whose discrimination is stolen away by such talk grow deeply attached to pleasures and power. And so they are unable to develop that one-pointed concentration of the will, which leads a man to absorption in God.  Bhagavad Gita
If you carry out the experiment you will discover the awake space... The vessel of your being. However, it doesnt stop there you need to maintain a one-pointedness on the awake space to really gain direct knowledge about the Self... That takes effort and preserverence. But the rewards are immense..
In studying ourselves, we find the harmony that is our total existence. We do not make harmony. We do not achieve it or gain it. It is there all the time. Here we are, in the midst of this perfect way, and our practice is simply to realize it and then to actualize it in our everyday life. Maezumi Roshi
Remember both good & bad things come & go in life. It's the endless nature & flow of things. It's not Anyones job to continually strive after only good things.

Make it your job to return home to the awake space or Single Eye as often as possible. There you will find harmony and alignment with life.
Ignorance is departure from home and Enlightenment is returning. While wandering, we lead a life full of pain and suffering, and the world wherein we find ourselves is not a very desirable habitat. This is, however, put a stop to by Enlightenment, as thus we are enabled once more to get settled at home where reign freedom and peace. 
D.T. Suzuki

snowheight
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by snowheight » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:46 pm

EternalPrize wrote: There is still such an energy in me of needing to "prove myself," or needing to find out that I'm a legitimate, lovable person who is capable of taking care of himself, getting along with others, and trusting a sense of flow without having to constantly control and manage all my actions to ensure some success (which of course isn't as successful as trusting the flow).
EP,

I don't know if you noticed this recent thread, but it might be helpful.

Noone who writes here has ever seen your body.

Have you felt legitimized at all by what you've read written to you in response by, say Jason, SmileyJen, Kutso or SandyJoy? Have you felt any love in what you've read written to you?

This energy that you describe, is it demanding? Does it project high standards? Expectations?

I've never met you but I don't need to meet you to be able to tell you that you are worthy of love, one-legged gimpy walk and all dude.

There's no need to manage anything as there is nothing to manage. Observe that voice that makes these demands and you might find non-mental inquiry in to the question of whether you are not your body a bit more open.

And if you find yourself flat on your back with no motivation to get up. Don't fight it. Don't resent it. Don't react to it. Just accept the oppression for as long as it's there. It won't last forever. Nothing does but what you are.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

EternalPrize
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by EternalPrize » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:16 pm

Thanks for the great responses.

Ashley - There are some great quotes in there and thank you for our explanation. Also - I just noticed we registered at the same exact time of day. Kind of odd (unless this is some board issue I hadnt noticed).

Snowy, I'll check that thread out. And yes, I certainly find myself being demanding and having certain expectations. I do sense "love" from the posters here, but often I bitterly label it as just an all-inclusive love I get caught up in by the catch-all net of obligation. Right now the "lovable" thing does not have to do with my leg too much anymore, but mainly by growing up in a house where I felt I was the "sick" one (by my mother's projections) and was constantly fighting against that while knowing there was nothing, nothing, NOTHING I could do to ever change her mind. And also I've always been worried I'm just mentally defective and couldn't prove myself to the people above a sort of ambiguous line of higher intelligence. I dropped a lot of classes in high school and never really challenged myself in college, although I tell myself it is more out of depression/apathy... I don't know. I had to stop talking to my mom because she still liked implying I was defective and I'm 26. The most frustrating thing about this issue for me It is the way it involves itself in my quest for enlightenment, where there is still kind of a big thing about "MY" understanding, ability to understand, become enlightened, and so on. As if I was doing this to PROVE the world wrong in its labeling of me as someone who had flaws in his brain and just didn't have what it takes to be a real person. A kind of "oh yeah, you're living your pathetic life and you think you're happy, but I'm enlightened" sort of thing. Ugh. There are definitely parts of my intent that are pure and that want to wake up out of compassion and a love for life, but it overall is not being held through a more selfless or just like, a state where I am interested and exploring that interest without a largely wounded ego. Most people have some sense of safety on the ground they stand on so they set up and look at this stuff at least knowing that ground will be there, but I don't have that. So that is greatly frustrating.

I'll check out that thread. And I'm sorry if it it seems like I ever come on here and say "Guys, all attention on me and my problems!" I was writing last night on how I'd introduce myself to group therapy and was considering I'd talk about those "my problems are more serious!!!! i'm not human!" expectations.

snowheight
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by snowheight » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:09 am

EternalPrize wrote: And I'm sorry if it it seems like I ever come on here and say "Guys, all attention on me and my problems!"
C'mon man we know what The Key Master would say about apologies now don't we? :lol:
EternalPrize wrote:Most people have some sense of safety on the ground they stand on so they set up and look at this stuff at least knowing that ground will be there, but I don't have that. So that is greatly frustrating.
I'll give you the acknowledgement that what you've been through is by any subjective standard a psychological hell ... and with the physical barriers on top of it. Not fun. No way no how. I know you're not looking for sympathy and I understand that being able to express yourself can be cathartic. I admire your resolution and effort to seek a pure heart.

Some people are unfortunate enough to be insulated so well from what is with comfort, family, wealth, recognition and achievement that they never even catch a glimpse of who they really are. Find solid ground on the map under the label "quicksand". Maybe you can prove a mothers love by letting go and forgiving her. That sounds like a hard one ... I hope some of the others jump in on that one. :oops:
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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Ziendus
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by Ziendus » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:01 pm

One is not solely the body.
The body is an experience, like any other,
in physical sensing, in reasoning, or in imagination.
That what experiences is also there,
inseparable from experience.
One is all that.
---ooOoo---

the key master
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by the key master » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:31 pm

ashley said,
You need to do the experiment in person. Why you may ask? Well, because mental knowledge actually obscures the first person experience.
A first person experience of not being a person? Maybe we should call it something else.

arel
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by arel » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:56 pm

Why am I not the body?
it's simple and logical - you know the body, therefore you are not the body. I know this bottle in front of me, I know it's not me, from that perspective. The persistence of body, and reference by others to it as me, makes the belief that it is who I am possible.
What I say is only my viewpoint.

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ashley72
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by ashley72 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:32 am

the key master wrote:
ashley said,
You need to do the experiment in person. Why you may ask? Well, because mental knowledge actually obscures the first person experience.
A first person experience of not being a person? Maybe we should call it something else.
Hi Jason,

Maybe not the best choice of words. The main message was the need to experience it directly HERE, rather than think about it mentally.

The first-person experience- is turning the arrow of attention 180 degrees towards the head/face region and looking HERE. If you take a fresh look HERE... without old-mental-conditioning... new perceptions might start filtering through HERE.

Some of the new perceptions I've observed while looking HERE:

1. The world is inside me HERE, I'm not inside the world.
2. The world moves inside me HERE, I'm not moving inside the world.
3. Emptiness HERE, Is awake space for other faces HERE.
4. When I look down at my feet, I seem to be up-side down HERE.
5. Everything including the walls seem to slide towards this space HERE.
6. The face in the Mirror is not my face. HERE there is no face, only sensations in this vibrant emptiness.
7. I seem to remain perfectly still while everything slides towards this vibrant emptiness HERE.
8. There is no sense of heaviness, no gloom HERE.
9. This space HERE & NOW doesn't come & go.

Its all about Being HERE!!!!


A Dog (first person seeing)
Image
Last edited by ashley72 on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

snowheight
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by snowheight » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:59 am

oh no! we all have to move to Australia! Damn ... that's an expensive plane ticket :o
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

the key master
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by the key master » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:06 am

Sounds good to me ash. It sounds like the "looking" youre talking about has nothing to do with the presence or absence of a head. I asked the dog to explain it to me, but he told me he couldnt wrap his head around it. :mrgreen:

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ashley72
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by ashley72 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:43 am

the key master wrote:Sounds good to me ash. It sounds like the "looking" youre talking about has nothing to do with the presence or absence of a head. I asked the dog to explain it to me, but he told me he couldnt wrap his head around it. :mrgreen:
Jason,

With respect... the original reply was directed at EternalPrize. He asked the question and seemed happy with my reply to his question. You come along a week later and response for no other reason then to mock a fellow forum members reply. That mocking draws in more mocking from another veteran Bill. Between both of you guys...you've racked up around 2500 posts.... that is a fair investment of time.

Maybe its time to move on if you can't continue to be constructive here.

the key master
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by the key master » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:59 am

Hey ash.

While my first post was a just a goof (albeit not a reasonless one), my intention on the second one was to compliment you on the clarity of your interpretations(i enjoyed the list), not mock you in any way (i loved the dog thing). On a side not, perhaps youve becomes personally invested in your newfound method, which is causing you to misinterpret things.

--j

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SandyJoy
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by SandyJoy » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:51 am

Life does not die no matter how many millions of people die every day over thousands of years. Remarkable isn't it!? 8)
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.

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SandyJoy
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Re: Why am I not the body?

Post by SandyJoy » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:35 am

Perhaps I should have added this:

We are Life Itself, If you know you are Life then you know you are This Life, always here, that is being or expressing Its Self as form and body and things---and YOU, the Real Life of you, You are not "inside" the body, you are Life that includes all bodies. There is no death. You do not die when the body ceases to "live".

The forms, images, appearances come and go, appear to be born and die--- but the Life You Are Is Always Here and Always Now and never dies. You are Life. You know you are Life because You are Living, you alive, you are Here and Aware and Being this All encompassing Infinite Life That Is.

Ok, just had to add that to make it a bit more understandable.

Also, we don't lose our bodies just because we realize we are not 'living inside' this bag of flesh and pumps. We do have a souls, and spirit and bodies and individual expressions as personalities, and that is really all part of God's Living Joy of Being. We do not have to get rid of anything about our self, we just come to Be more fully Our Real Self, and in doing so we are not burdened by the body, but we do enjoy having one.

Spirit, Life, Love, is not beholden to the body, those qualities are Real and they are beyond the body. To know this gives our heart and soul freedom to live more like we did as children; having a body but not really aware of it so much. Our Heart is not trapped by time, our Spirit can enjoy this experience of a body while not trapped in the belief that there is a "separate someone" who is the 'owner' of it.

Which leads me to say God is the owner, Life is the owner, there is no other Self but This All Inclusive One.

Much Love, Sandyjoy
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.

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