Presence

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arel
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Presence

Post by arel » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:06 am

Presence

This word applies only when awareness is aware of itself. Only when I pay attention to where attention is. The source of attention is Now, what and were else can it be but now and here. Presence is this moment.. present. Being present is the same as being in the now as practice. This human practice is Presence, until it's not a practice any more but a natural way of being.

No, I am not always present. Formation of memory is not proof of Presence. Presence is only a human concept, a memory, but experience of it is awareness of existence of awareness, consciousness of consciousness. Yet the aware space of now always is, always exists, is never born and never dies, how could it, with everything born to it, from it and dies in it. The 'space of now' always is. It is the subject that knows. But that is only known in Presence.

Presence is key to knowing who I am and who you are. It's key to relieving suffering and other human afflictions. It's the essence of all spiritual teachings and practices.

This is my personal way of putting it, I invite you to agree or disagree to facilitate our understanding. Please do it from your own experience.
What I say is only my viewpoint.

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ashley72
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Re: Presence

Post by ashley72 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:55 am

Arel,

I agree.... the key is to bring awareness back to its Source, rather than focusing it upon its infinite manifestations.
"When your consciousness is directed outward, mind and world arise. When it is directed inward, it realizes its own Source and returns home into the Unmanifested."

-Eckhart Tolle
Outwardly Looking (infinite Manifestations)

When we look outwardly... everything is constantly changing.... manifesting... in a state of flux. Our attention never stays on one thing.... but moves from one thing to the next.

Characteristics of Outward Looking

Moving
Noisy
Coloured
Shaped
Bounded
Separated
Gendered
Named
Birth
Death
Beginnings
Endings

Inwardly Looking (Unmanifested)

By turning the arrow of attention 180 degrees inwardly to see where you're looking out from. This inward space is like awake space.... it is the canvas on which the world manifests.

Characteristics of Inward Looking

Unmoving
Silent
Ageless
Colourless
Shapeless
Boundless
Nationless
Genderless
Nameless
Unborn
Undying
Beginningless
Endless

randomguy
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Re: Presence

Post by randomguy » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:01 pm

Is whatever witnesses the space of now ever not present (as in not here)?
What would be "not present" really?
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

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Kutso
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Re: Presence

Post by Kutso » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:48 pm

arel wrote:No, I am not always present.
Yes, you are. If you say you are not, then you are mistaking yourself for some phenomena.
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

the key master
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Re: Presence

Post by the key master » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:25 pm

howdy.

Consciousness is already conscious, and the idea that a practice is necessary for mind to be consciousness arises from the delusional belief that mind can "become consciousness", or is "becoming consciousness" through what is sometimes pointed to as the awakening process. The person doesn't become anything except a less unconscious person, and this happens as consciousness "becomes conscious" of mind while being what its always been, conscious. That's you, not the mind which spontaneously appears out of nowhere declaring that its practicing being something which is present even in its own absence, which is, fundamentally impossible. Put another way, mind can't actually practice being something which isn't mind.

Now, if you want to call a mind state absent thought "presence", I don't have any issue with that. I think this is how most peeps tend to think of presence, and this is probably why enlightenment is often equated with a mind state and why pretty much nobody is waking up and everybody thinks theyre awake. :mrgreen:

Ralph
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Re: Presence

Post by Ralph » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:58 pm

Hey keymaster, good to see you back. I thought you were banned .
the key master wrote: Put another way, mind can't actually practice being something which isn't mind.
Put another way, use the mind to know the mind to get behind the mind.

the key master
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Re: Presence

Post by the key master » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:10 pm

yo ralphy. Not only am i untouchable ever present awareness, but im also the unbannable formless observer, hehe.
Put another way, use the mind to know the mind to get behind the mind.
Tru dat. Im all for understanding the mind with the mind. And it is "what is conscious of mind" that allows mind to turn around on itself to take a gander at what's actually going on.

Ralph
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Re: Presence

Post by Ralph » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:22 pm

the key master wrote:yo ralphy. Not only am i untouchable ever present awareness, but im also the unbannable formless observer, hehe.
:lol:

Yes I agree, .. we must wake up to this truth.

arel
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Re: Presence

Post by arel » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:51 pm

randomguy wrote:Is whatever witnesses the space of now ever not present (as in not here)?
What would be "not present" really?
In retrospect yes, there is never not existence, never not now, but there are times when world obscures my knowledge of myself, of my true identity, and that's when I'm not present, in the way I use the term.
Kutso wrote:
arel wrote:No, I am not always present.
Yes, you are. If you say you are not, then you are mistaking yourself for some phenomena.
Yes Presence, in how I use the word, is a phenomena.

the key master, honestly, once again, I did not understand anything of what you said there. Interestingly, I resonate with every word of Tolle, Maharaj, and many others, including some on this forum. So I got no comment on your comment.
What I say is only my viewpoint.

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Kutso
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Re: Presence

Post by Kutso » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:23 pm

arel wrote:Yes Presence, in how I use the word, is a phenomena.
Then it is not really you, is it?
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

arel
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Re: Presence

Post by arel » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:14 pm

Kutso wrote:
arel wrote:Yes Presence, in how I use the word, is a phenomena.
Then it is not really you, is it?
That's right. Presence is a happening in what I am, that reveals what I am if I am curious in a question of "what am I?"
What I say is only my viewpoint.

the key master
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Re: Presence

Post by the key master » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:46 pm

arel said,
the key master, honestly, once again, I did not understand anything of what you said there. Interestingly, I resonate with every word of Tolle, Maharaj, and many others, including some on this forum. So I got no comment on your comment.
I think that was a commentless comment.

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SandyJoy
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Re: Presence

Post by SandyJoy » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:17 am

arel wrote:That's right. Presence is a happening in what I am, that reveals what I am if I am curious in a question of "what am I?"
Presence is not "in" anything or anyone; Its All That Is. For me it is the Holy Ground of All That Is, For me this Living Presence is the very Awareness of God and God's Infinite Being, which is being All That Is and All That I Am.

Presence is Present whether you know it or not, whether you acknowledge it or not, whether you think about it or not. You cannot escape this Living Presence, and furthermore, you are this Living Presence, and there is no other identity or self knowing that you can ever be, whether you know it or not. 8)

Hey Key Master! :D
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.

arel
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Re: Presence

Post by arel » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:46 am

the key master wrote:
I think that was a commentless comment.
A paradox, isn't it. I guess just a personal observation that's all.
What I say is only my viewpoint.

arel
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:11 pm

Re: Presence

Post by arel » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:55 am

SandyJoy wrote:Presence is Present whether you know it or not, whether you acknowledge it or not,
Awareness always is, but Presence is Present only when you know it, yourself :) Nothing is if I don't know it. Go ahead prove me otherwise... :)

So then question for every one who says the presence is always present: (which I do agree with from a certain perspective, as a good pointer).
Why is there such points in Tolle's 'teaching' about becoming present, and mindfulness practice, body awareness (yoga), is that all just to stop thinking?
What I say is only my viewpoint.

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