Who decides?

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Pete88
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Who decides?

Post by Pete88 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:30 pm

Ok, so we are not the mind. We can't even control the mind. We can't control my life. We can't control the "movie" that the real Self is watching. That leaves me with one question:

Who decides what movie we get to watch?

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Kutso
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Kutso » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

Pete88 wrote:Who decides what movie we get to watch?
Good question. Where do you suppose we should look for that 'who'? In the movie?
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

Pete88
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Pete88 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:47 pm

Kutso wrote:
Pete88 wrote:Who decides what movie we get to watch?
Good question. Where do you suppose we should look for that 'who'? In the movie?
I don't think the decider could ever be part of the movie, for he/she/it is there to pick the movie, start the movie and end the movie. The decider goes beyond the movie.

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Kutso
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Kutso » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:10 am

Pete88 wrote:I don't think the decider could ever be part of the movie, for he/she/it is there to pick the movie, start the movie and end the movie. The decider goes beyond the movie.
The question then follows, what is part of the movie? The body? The mind? Even if you found someone claiming to be the decider of the movie, wouldn't that one also be a part of the movie?
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

Pete88
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Pete88 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:29 am

Kutso wrote:
Pete88 wrote:I don't think the decider could ever be part of the movie, for he/she/it is there to pick the movie, start the movie and end the movie. The decider goes beyond the movie.
The question then follows, what is part of the movie? The body? The mind? Even if you found someone claiming to be the decider of the movie, wouldn't that one also be a part of the movie?
Which makes it even more frustrating. I will never know the decider, yet he/she/it would (if the movie theory is correct) be capable of making me experience anything it wants. Does that not make me a puppet on a string?

snowheight
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Re: Who decides?

Post by snowheight » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:31 am

Pete88 wrote: Does that not make me a puppet on a string?
This is the mind taking seriously a belief about individuality that reflects back from direct experience.

Advaita and other practices and traditions rightfully and helpfully indict the conceptual, and then some, in forgetting what's been indicted, walk back to the campfire carrying this old chestnut, another concept. Just like the "Everything is Beautiful" meme, the "Noone is responsible/there is no I to make choices" meme does seem to help some perspectives wake up ... to others it's just an unhelpful distraction.

And it's also about as true as any other concept we can concoct about that which is beyond the conceptual, what's the value of such a truth? Remember, you're trying to reason about something that is beyond the mind.

If you want to read more about what I'm getting at you can check out these threads.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

Pete88
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Pete88 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:36 pm

snowheight wrote:
Pete88 wrote: Does that not make me a puppet on a string?
And it's also about as true as any other concept we can concoct about that which is beyond the conceptual, what's the value of such a truth? Remember, you're trying to reason about something that is beyond the mind.
So i'll never understand. That sounds like a parent saying: "because i said so". Has that ever left you with a content feeling?

Thank you for the links, I'll definitely be giving them a read through!

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Kutso
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Kutso » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:40 pm

Pete88 wrote:Which makes it even more frustrating. I will never know the decider, yet he/she/it would (if the movie theory is correct) be capable of making me experience anything it wants. Does that not make me a puppet on a string?
Well, I've come to see it as everything happening spontaneously. There's really no puppet master behind the scenes.

Take a thought for example. When it comes, does it just pop up in front of you all of a sudden, or is there a thinker that thinks the thoughts? If there's a thinker, then this thinker should be able to decide which thoughts pops up. But this is nobody's experience. Thoughts just pop up spontaneously without anyone having control over them.
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

Pete88
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Pete88 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:11 pm

Kutso wrote:
Pete88 wrote:Which makes it even more frustrating. I will never know the decider, yet he/she/it would (if the movie theory is correct) be capable of making me experience anything it wants. Does that not make me a puppet on a string?
Well, I've come to see it as everything happening spontaneously. There's really no puppet master behind the scenes.

Take a thought for example. When it comes, does it just pop up in front of you all of a sudden, or is there a thinker that thinks the thoughts? If there's a thinker, then this thinker should be able to decide which thoughts pops up. But this is nobody's experience. Thoughts just pop up spontaneously without anyone having control over them.
I'm too identified with the pain thoughts can cause to accept that they "just are"

snowheight
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Re: Who decides?

Post by snowheight » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:27 pm

Pete88 wrote:Has that ever left you with a content feeling?
No, not contentment, but sometimes when I ponder all of it I can be overwhelmed with a very deep sense of profound awe that doesn't involve personification in any sense or on any level. There are some that consider contentment a form of somnolence and mind can see a truth in that but not only is truth ever only half the story in these matters but begrudging a person contentment is most of the time just purposeless cruelty.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

Pete88
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Pete88 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:56 pm

snowheight wrote:
Pete88 wrote:Has that ever left you with a content feeling?
No, not contentment, but sometimes when I ponder all of it I can be overwhelmed with a very deep sense of profound awe that doesn't involve personification in any sense or on any level. There are some that consider contentment a form of somnolence and mind can see a truth in that but not only is truth ever only half the story in these matters but begrudging a person contentment is most of the time just purposeless cruelty.
i'm afraid i don't quite follow you?

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Ziendus
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Ziendus » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:10 pm

Pete88: "Ok, so we are not the mind."

Not ok, we are also mind.
---ooOoo---

Pete88
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Pete88 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:27 pm

Ziendus - Yes, but just as much as we are everything around us. So in the context of the whole "movie" paralel, it's just part of the movie.
Kutso - Just wanted to say a quick thank you for taking the time to help me both in this topic and in my other topic :) I was so busy throwing back answers at your replies that i kind of forgot to say thanks!

Blenderhead
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Blenderhead » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:20 am

Who decides? This question can never be answered :)

Another way to formulate this question would be: what is the formless awareness out of which thought comes?

Do you expect an answer? :D

*The Tao that can be spoken of is not the true Tao" ...

Pako Chubi
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Re: Who decides?

Post by Pako Chubi » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:21 pm

mmm... I think only the mind can DECIDE. But in case of awareness, you don't decide to be aware, you don't make a prior decision... you just are aware, suddenly.
If you have already awakened once, already saw the mind from your essence, then you now what's to "see". You just go on and see, don't decide, only see. There's no time in seeing -now I decide, the next moment I start seeing, and finally i'm conscious-
It happens atemporaly. Can consciousness decide to see? Well, maybe, but I don't think "deciding" is a correct word to express something coming from nothingness itself...

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