Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

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Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby Ervin » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:02 pm

You know, from the interaction on the internet and in person with atheists I have come to believe that a lots of them hate any idea of God.

Now, the question I would like to ask everyone is wether or not you believe that belief in the intelligent source of everything that exists matters . Does it matter to God.

I am convinced that it matters. Everything we do no mater how small matters to God. That's because I believe God cares. I don't think that God can hate those that don't believe. I don't hate them either. But if your claims are that if He exists He is evil than how could he take you to himself when the time comes? If you don't want him from the depth of your heart then He might just honor your wishes!

Anyway, what do you think?
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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby kiki » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:08 pm

Whatever "God" truly is is a mystery, so who can say for certain what matters to God? People who believe in a personal God will attribute human like qualities to God, but where is the proof that the almighty God who is responsible for everything is a personal God? There are lots of beliefs about such a God, but which is the correct one, and upon what authority does such a belief rest, and how is that authority earned and who gives it? Do you see the problem here? It's all about beliefs, and differing ones are the source of so much of our trouble in this world. Maybe God is IMpersonal, and if that's the case would your question even be relevant?

Perhaps a good step in "knowing" God and what "matters" to him is to suspend whatever belief system we have of him/her/it. Perhaps what's needed is to simply see everything in fresh light rather than through the prism of a belief system that is likely to be thousands of years old, a belief system that probably is faith based and fed to you by your parents who themselves don't actually know for certain.
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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:49 pm

Kiki makes excellent points as always.

Atheists don't actually hate God. At most they hate their vision of God - a vision based in the same religiosity that permeates most of our culture. And if one truly believes there is no God, how could one hate what does not exist?

Consider a little context. If you had a young child who wanted something you would not provide, and this child in his/her anger screamed that they hated you, would you love them any less? Or would you be content that your greater vision knew that this child was bound for greater things in due time. While there is an adult feature to the human experience, we are likely still spiritual children as compared to our greater destiny. And whatever Infinite consciousness set in motion the creative expansion of life in/as the universe, is likely to have our spiritual infancy, and evolutionary struggles, taken into account.

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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby snowheight » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:44 pm

I wonder when the words "belief" and "faith" started to mean the same thing ... when did "faith" start to mean blind acceptance of a set of beliefs? "Leap of faith", and the old definitions of "faith" seem to be nods to the exact opposite.

Ah well, fun with words. Thanks kiki.
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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby austin417 » Mon May 07, 2012 9:49 pm

In the words of Eckhart himself, "the belief in God impedes the realization of the reality of god manifesting every moment of your life"
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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby Ervin » Tue May 08, 2012 6:16 am

I think by following our conciense we are moving towards God and by going against what our conciense tells us we are moving away from aligning ourselves with Hem.

I use Hem instead of Him. I read somewere that in some European country they invented Hem instead of him or her for someone without actual gender. I think its a toy company that came up with it.

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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby austin417 » Tue May 08, 2012 7:24 am

I gotta disagree with that. Morals are huge detriment to spirituality. Morals change based on cultural conditioning, the crusades were fought by people following their conscience, wars are fought by following conscience, everybody thinks their doing the right thing. Enter an ego-less state, and you do good because you become filled with love and compassion, not because you have some moral or conscience that says you "ought" to do good.
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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby Ervin » Tue May 08, 2012 7:22 pm

austin417 wrote:I gotta disagree with that. Morals are huge detriment to spirituality. Morals change based on cultural conditioning, the crusades were fought by people following their conscience, wars are fought by following conscience, everybody thinks their doing the right thing. Enter an ego-less state, and you do good because you become filled with love and compassion, not because you have some moral or conscience that says you "ought" to do good.


So I can go around, kill innocent, steal, rape and similar stuf that my conciense tells me its evil but as long as I don't get attached to those actions they want move me further away from God. Because hey if the sociaty thinks those actions are good than my conciense want be able to say they are evil.

By the way I am no encouaraging anyone to be judgmental but I do think that our conscience will lead us to God our source.

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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby austin417 » Wed May 09, 2012 12:23 am

A realized person would never do anything like that. A person following their conscience would, take the crusades for example. Or just about any war, their all started from people thinking its the "right" thing to do. Lets say your brought up in a racist society, from your culture conditioning you would think its "wrong" or against your conscience to be friends with members of that race, unless your very wise and see through all of that. As i said earlier, enter and ego less state and you automatically do good because you see yourself in all beings, not because of silly ideas of right and wrong which change from culture to culture.
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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby Sum » Wed May 09, 2012 5:06 pm

austin417 wrote:I gotta disagree with that. Morals are huge detriment to spirituality. Morals change based on cultural conditioning, the crusades were fought by people following their conscience, wars are fought by following conscience, everybody thinks their doing the right thing. Enter an ego-less state, and you do good because you become filled with love and compassion, not because you have some moral or conscience that says you "ought" to do good.


I hear what you're saying, but aren't you still assuming that morality is comprised of love and compassion? By valuing love and compassion, we automatically imbue it with moral implications. If there truly was no morality, it wouldn't matter whether people acted in love and compassion or not.
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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby austin417 » Wed May 09, 2012 7:08 pm

Well no not really. You shouldn't neccesarily value love and compassion as much as you should just feel it. And true love and compassion comes when you realize your true nature as not seperate from god or any other beings. For example, if you do good from a conscience, your only really doing it because if you didn't do it your conscience would impose guilt on you, and so to avoid guilt you do what you've been culturally conditioned to think is "right". So really, that is a selfish motive, not a selfless one. You're trying to avoid guilty feelings. That is very different from doing things out of true love and compassion, there is no effort in it. You don't say damn, i really dont feel like helping that person today, but it's really the right thing to do. You say hey I love you and I really WANT to help you, and when that happens there is no effort involved and the quality of the good deeds is much better. So don't say I need to act like this or I need to be this, accept who you are now, and love and compassion will simply start to flow out of you, and all actions you do will be truly good and truly alleviate suffering.
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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby Sum » Thu May 10, 2012 4:30 pm

I agree with what you're saying about the motivation behind morality. Clearly, that motivation is more sincere, more selfless, and ultimately more effective when it naturally flows from feeling connected with others rather than from a desire to avoid guilt or damnation.

But aren't we still talking about morality? When you say you "should just feel it", that "should" imposes a value judgment on love and compassion. The underlying assumption is that love and compassion are "good" and that selfish, destructive behavior is "bad".

Do you truly believe the world would be better off if people felt that sense of connectedness with others, and experienced the natural love and compassion that flows from that connection? If so, that is a moral belief.

As I see it, the only way to be amoral would be to truly not care whether people were connected or not, or whether they demonstrated love and compassion or not.
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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby austin417 » Thu May 10, 2012 5:21 pm

Well I suppose you could say that, but thats really not morals in the traditional sense. Dividing the world into good and evil is still a form of duality, and awakening is beyond such a distinction. As Ram dass puts it "you see that it is perfect, including the suffering, and including your wanting to get rid of it". There simply is no way to talk about awakening truly as it transcends language. On a more surface level you could say awakening is good and ego is bad, but from an enlightened perspective that isnt neccesarily true. Enlightenment is, ego is, its really that simple.
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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby austin417 » Thu May 10, 2012 5:32 pm

Another point i forgot to make is that in an awakened state their is no I to differentiate good from evil. There is no one chosing this action over that one, life itself simply acts through you. Your doing becomes part of the happening and you happening is part of the doing. Remember the story of eden? They ate from the apple of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But for the sake of discussion we have to say that they exist, only in silence can we truly understand that.
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Re: Does it mater to God if we believe in Him

Postby Sum » Thu May 10, 2012 5:44 pm

Tolle talks about good and evil in a relative sense. From his perspective, evil is defined as complete identification with form. I listened to a talk from him yesterday where he mentioned the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and his point was that knowledge (i.e., content of the mind) is what separated man from his natural alignment with what is.
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