Feeling the inner body...

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GiveUpTheGhost
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Feeling the inner body...

Post by GiveUpTheGhost » Wed May 02, 2012 8:13 pm

Hi forum,

I have been meditating on the inner body lately with mixed results. Eckhart suggests that when focusing on inner body sensations energy is withdrawn from the mind, this gives rise to a state of presence which is capable of dissolving whatever negativity/resistance/contraction the body holds onto. I have experienced this but it seems to be a rare occurence, what normally happens when I bring my attention into the inner body is that I become aware of all the "stuck" energy that lives within me, but it remains stuck and I cannot feel any sense of peace surrounding it. My guess is that despite my attempts to focus awareness on the body, some of my attention remains in the mind and thus in judgement of my inner body (although this is very subtle and I'm not aware of my thoughts at the time). How does one give their complete attention to the inner body so that there is none left for the mind? It seems very difficult to me.

Rob
Gather up the lost and their souls...

Hendrik
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Re: Feeling the inner body...

Post by Hendrik » Fri May 04, 2012 6:28 pm

I once saw a video of Tolle addressing the issue and he raised his hands saying that this was the easiest way to enter the body. He is right! When raising your hands you become aware of the aliveness in there that is not "you", although it's in your body. The impact of this aliveness is stronger than any mindstuff, at least for me. From your hands it's rather easy to extend it to other body parts. Try it now and raise your hands....

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Feeling the inner body...

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri May 04, 2012 9:48 pm

Hi Rob, I may go 'over and above' what you were asking here, but it's all 'relative', I was looking for a place to discuss interactions between subtle energy and the human body and consciousness, and here your direct question was waiting for me.

'Subtle attention' as you describe is imho a more conscious re-cognition of the energies of life - our interaction with the oneness if you like, when we are truly 'paying attention' and where it might appear 'stuck' it is merely pausing awaiting your attention.

In essence those 'noticing' blockages are a good thing (imho). It's how energy healers work.

I would hazard a guess if you directed loving subtle energy toward them you would notice an interaction. Yes it may generate further re-cognition of its origins (re-membering) and if you are in a loving state you can not only 'work with it' in this instance, but also kind of learn from it, learn its resonance and frequency and if you remain present you will be able to 're-cognise' it both in any future resistances of the same kind, and in the energy fields of others.

Now, it may be that the interaction generates thoughts, but thoughts in awareness have a different quality - a ring of 'truth' to them, a loving acceptance rather than making enemy, obstacle, means to an end of them. This is a wise use of mind - learning to work with the energies.

I will post a 'thing' I just found having been exploring subtle energies and whether/if 'science' is catching up at all... (are we there yet?... sigh)

I've been 'playing' consciously with the subtle energies and electro-magnetic fields in all manner of arenas for the past year or so and I am just beginning to hit on possible areas that science could 'measure' the interactions - one of them caused my watch to stop at the exact second that I was interacting with an energy surge AND looked at my watch to note the time, which is a bit of a 'known' hazard for nde'ers, but I'm pretty sure with awareness everyone could .. well become 'aware' enough to 'play' with the energies consciously. This area is soooo much the ancient lore that I wish modern science would catch up with.

So maybe, first understand what these subtle energies are, that they are nothing to fear, then learn to love and learn from them, it makes 'life' a whole lotta interesting :D
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Feeling the inner body...

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri May 04, 2012 9:55 pm

everything 'old' is 'new' again :wink: I don't know yet how 'valid' this paper or organisation is, I'm investigating.
http://www.subtlenergies.org/ecopperwallproject.html

Subtle Energies International Research Center

Reference for the following experiment: Dr. Elmer Green, Peter A. Parks, Paul M. Guyer, Dr. Steve L. Fahrion, Dr. Lolafaye Coyne, "Anomalous Electrostatic Phenomena in Exceptional Subjects", in Subtle Energies, Anno 2, Nr. 3, 1991, pp. 69-94, and "Gender Differences in a Magnetic Field", Subtle Energies, Anno 3, Nr. 2, 1992, pp. 65-103.

Subtle energies take their name from the difficulty in revealing them with conventional instruments and equipment. However, this does not prevent us from studying them: their presence generates other, more familiar phenomena: the so-called correlates of the subtle energies.

For instance, thunder is a correlate of lightning: it is not the lightning itself, but it makes us aware of its presence. The most interesting experiments in the West to demonstrate the electrical correlate of the subtle energies were conducted in the project “Physical Fields and States of Consciousness”, later known as the Copper Wall Project.

It was directed by Dr Elmer Green and colleagues at the Menninger Clinic, in Topeka, in the American state of Kansas. The project lasted from 1983 to 1995; the results have been published on the magazine "Subtle Energies". The idea for the project came after Dr Green read a letter from a Tibetan meditation teacher, dated 13th August 1882, addressed to A.P. Sinnett, director of the popular English-written magazine, The Pioneer. In this letter was explained “how to teach our chela [novices] to attain clarity of the spirit”. A monk was sitting on a wooden chair, which was placed on a glass sheet, while looking towards a wall made of metal (mainly copper). The monk was meditating alone, facing the wall.

Starting from this letter, Dr Green wondered if and how the electric potential (that is, the electrostatic charge) of a meditating person could vary during meditation. The copper walls would enable measurement of the electrostatic field generated by the person

A room was then prepared, whose floor, ceiling and two walls (front and back) were coated with copper. The copper sheets were not linked one with the other, so they were electrically isolated. An electrometer (an instrument that measures the electrical charge of a body) was connected to each copper sheet. The subjects tested were both “sensitives”, persons known for their sensitivity to energies or parapsycological abilities, and “normal” people, forming the control group. The latter did not have any previous experience of energetic sensitivity. Each of them sat on a chair placed on a glass surface, facing the copper wall. The operator recorded the changes in electrical potential of the body and of the field around it.

As expected, on 600 hundred tests with normal people (20 people, 30 tries each), none of them produced any electrostatic peaks nor particular voltage intensities. However, the tests conducted with the sensitive persons gave astonishing results.
In a series of experiments lasted between 1988 and 1990 seven men and seven women classified as “sensitives” were tested; each of them was observed during a 45-minute meditation session in the copper wall room. The persons tested were to remain with their eyes open, in an aware state, but not concentrating on anything particular. Each person lived in the institute for a week in order to avoid all contact with the other people tested. In some session, to change the conditions of the magnetic field inside the room, a magnetic needle was hung above the head of the subject. Neither the person tested nor the operator knew whether there was a magnet inside of the room or not (double-blind condition).

The sessions were recorded by two cameras to make sure that the electrical impulses were generated by meditation and not by muscular movement. An electrode attached to the subject’s ear lobe measured any change of the body potential compared to the ground during meditation. Electrocardiogram (ECG), electroencephalogram (EEG), finger temperature, skin conductivity and breath cycles were also measured. Changes in the magnetic field around the subject were measured with electrometers connected to the copper walls. In each session all of these data were collected simultaneously and monitored in a nearby lab.

At the end of each series of tests the subjects were asked to report any particular experience of a physical, mental, emotional, psychic or spiritual nature during the meditation. These data were then compared with the physiological results.
Nine out of the 14 sensitive persons were well-known healers, who used healing techniques like prayer and visualisation. During the last two and a half days at the Menninger Clinic they tried these techniques on volunteers of the institute. In some of these sessions, the volunteers sat with the healer in the same copper wall room; in others, they elsewhere in the clinic. During this phase of the experiment no magnet was used.

During meditation, the waves of body potential varied between 4 and 221V, and such peaks lasted between 0.5 and 12.5 seconds. These electrostatic charges were independent from the presence of a magnet. During the healing sessions the peaks were extraordinary - they varied between 4 and 190V, and healers produced during the session a greater number of such peaks. It seemed that healing energy was released by the presence of a patient and the intention to heal.
The amplitude of these peaks is enormous: 10000 times bigger than the voltage measured with an ECG, which is produced by the heart, our body’s strongest muscle; it is 100000 times the maximum potential measured with an EEG. These results go beyond our knowledge on human capacities.

The logical consequence was that, in the next turn of experiments, greater attention was given to energetic exchanges between healer and the patient. In this case too, no magnets were used. The same healers were tested, six men and three women, and a new group of volunteers as the patients.

Again, high electrical peaks were measured on the healers’ bodies and, less intensely, on the patients’. The patients seemed to act as antennae, like the copper, and produced synchronized waves with the healer, although of smaller amplitude. These phoenomena could be measured only when the patient was in the same room with the healer, and not when the healer tried to heal at distance. All patients reported frequently feeling the presence of a “healing energy”, although in a different room, or seeing the same images projected by the healer. This suggests that this process is not solely electrical: other factors, not measured or not measurable, are probably present. The intention to heal can probably bring about a healing process, even if no particular electric activity is detected. This is an interesting confirmation of what the Chinese masters say: Yi ling qi, that is, the thought guides qi (life energy); in some qigong manuscripts it is even written that the intention itself can heal, that is the intention is the qi.

Some healers seemed to be able to expand the electromagnetic field in all directions. The differences among the healers can be explained by the particular training followed, by the emotional state during the healing, or by a physiological predisposition.

Dr. William Tiller of Stanford University has analyzed the data and found out that the electrostatic charge seemed to have its origin in the lower part of the abdomen, right where many Oriental cultures place the strongest energetic points of our body. Elmer Green, however, commented on these results saying that an experienced healer can generate this kind of energy from any part of his body

Subtle Energies International Research Center
Re-cognising the energy levels explains to me how 'sensitives' and animals can 'feel' subtle movements of nature - eg tsunami, building earthquake (although that's not so subtle ; ), It explains empathy links and clair abilities and many other 'phenomena' across time, space and 'dimensions'.


Further info on the project in an interview here http://www.healthy.net/Health/Interview ... ment/199/1
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

GiveUpTheGhost
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Re: Feeling the inner body...

Post by GiveUpTheGhost » Thu May 10, 2012 7:08 pm

thanks Jen, sorry I haven't replied sooner.

I suppose the energy fields of the human body exist on a spectrum, which manifests as electrical impulses in its most physical aspect, perhaps this is related to 'chi'. Whilst this research is intriguing, I'm not sure if it of practical assistance with regards to 'awakening', just piling more concepts onto what is, I suppose it's possible that if understood better the energy fields of the body could be manipulated to facilitate awakening or healing, although I'm skeptical.

I'm still grappling with my initial inquiry of how to feel the body without interference from mind. I have felt some relief by paying attention to mind and body simultaneously, when doing this I sense how deeply interconnected they are.
Gather up the lost and their souls...

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Feeling the inner body...

Post by smiileyjen101 » Thu May 10, 2012 11:21 pm

My guess is that despite my attempts to focus awareness on the body, some of my attention remains in the mind and thus in judgement of my inner body (although this is very subtle and I'm not aware of my thoughts at the time).

How does one give their complete attention to the inner body so that there is none left for the mind? It seems very difficult to me.
Sorry ghost, I'll try again, with the understanding that I'm coming at this from another direction maybe to what you think you want to achieve.

Your mind is part of your body and the subtle energy when not focussing on external stimuli attunes with or wherever your focus is. So I guess I'm saying this subtle 'knowing' is not a problem, nor is it that you are judging your inner body, but rather that you are judging your mind for (still) being a part of your awareness of inner body.

This is like trying to isolate one muscle when exercising and expecting other muscles, and sinew and tendons and and and... to not support the working of the one being isolated by your attention - it's biologically not possible they are all interdependent.

However, you can bring your attention and tension and release to a particular muscle knowingly.

You can also 'notice' (which, for me, is attention without force or judgement to move or change anything) any blockages in the inner body, in the energy fields and flows including in your thoughts.
I have felt some relief by paying attention to mind and body simultaneously, when doing this I sense how deeply interconnected they are.
I actually think your 'knowing' and feeling of this interdependence is very healthy and a step beyond the quietness; having emptied your mind of external stimuli the creative energies will fill the space. Noticing them imho is a good thing.

With this peace what now can you apply to the 'blockages' you were noticing were without peace?
I suppose it's possible that if understood better the energy fields of the body could be manipulated to facilitate awakening or healing, although I'm skeptical.
And therein lies the judgement that is 'blocking' the totally free flow of energies - no one 'owns' it, we all share it interdependently.

The building of a 'case' yes I agree is unnecessary, but it's actually the same process you're going through, as in 'science' is going through the same thing and has noticed blockages in their knowledge - so, first empty (the science/mind) of previous beliefs based on individualism, then notice the energies in action, notice 'blockages' in the free flow of them, then realise the power of knowing them and working with them in love and understanding that they are shared by all.

Now I can repeat this bit...
'Subtle attention' as you describe is imho a more conscious re-cognition of the energies of life - our interaction with the oneness if you like, when we are truly 'paying attention' and where it might appear 'stuck' it is merely pausing awaiting your attention.

In essence those 'noticing' blockages are a good thing (imho). It's how energy healers work.

I would hazard a guess if you directed loving subtle energy toward them you would notice an interaction. Yes it may generate further re-cognition of its origins (re-membering) and if you are in a loving state you can not only 'work with it' in this instance, but also kind of learn from it, learn its resonance and frequency and if you remain present you will be able to 're-cognise' it both in any future resistances of the same kind, and in the energy fields of others.

Now, it may be that the interaction generates thoughts, but thoughts in awareness have a different quality - a ring of 'truth' to them, a loving acceptance rather than making enemy, obstacle, means to an end of them. This is a wise use of mind - learning to work with the energies.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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