Worldly Life is Mysticism

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rideforever
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Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by rideforever » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:41 pm

It seems to me that being a child is a mystical experience : you wander into an unknown world, you accept it ... perhaps because your parents love you - they model love for you. They reflect the love of God into you perhaps.

As an adult you walk down the street. So many things are occurring, some within your sensitivity, some things outside of your sensitivity : your organs are working, your endocrine system is working, the electrons in your body are moving, the culture is changing, the weather is changing ... and you just walk down the street. You don't jump in fear of it. You accept it. You are in a bath of it.

And this is mysticism : when you walk out into the unknown and accept it, and explore it.

But we think it is not mysticism. People could scream that they fully understand their life - they are in "control" of it. But this could not be further from the truth. We have no explanations for 99% of what is happening to us - we just accept it.

And if we look deeper into the world of "explanations" we see that they are rubbish : someone will stand in front of you and "explain" something to you with total confidence - but if you press him again and again you will see that his is just a parrot repeating what he was told. His confidence is imaginary. His "explanation" is just repeating something he was told.

Science : well it's the same here - it's imaginary. Someone gets on stage and very confidently says "we discovered the Higgs Boson" ... but if you look into the small print you see that they only discovered it to 99.99% and they "assume" that that is enough. In fact - scientists gave up on 100% a long time ago. That may surprise you. It sure surprised me.

When Science gives up on 100% - you know it's just crap and they haven't got the guts to say it.

All "explanations" are like this.

In fact as you walk down the street you are having a mystical experience - all is unknown and you accept it, you bathe in it.

But our culture encourages us to listen to "explanations" ... and that is the reason you would deny that you are a mystic.

But you are - we all are.

And as for the spiritual path ... surely it just leads back here. Take it by all means, but it seems to me you are right now in the middle of something mystical - maybe you don't realise because too many "explanations" got stuck in your head ?
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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by SandyJoy » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:05 am

rideforever wrote:It seems to me that being a child is a mystical experience
Yes, I think you are on target here.

Lest ye become as a little child, you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven---

And Heaven is spread over the face of the Earth, but men see it not ---

Meaning that only those with eyes to see can see Heaven Here at hand---like the child. Like those of us who have been "reborn". To be 'reborn' means to rediscover our original Self. Now we "come back to the world and we Live again".

We do this, as if a resurrection. It happens after being "dead" to the Mystical, to The Wonder, to The Light of God as All in all.

As the "old man" in our arrogance we are 'blinded' to the Mystical Heaven, The Meadow that is right here, right now. As the Child again, we See It, the Meadow, Heaven at hand.

Yes, there is a Mystical World, and It is This, right here.

Yet, it is hidden from the "corrupted arrogant old man" who thinks he knows and then defines, and outlines Life. It is not seen by those who have put up a wall around their heart. This Mystical Wonder is not see by the "old man" as in those who have shaped the world into his own limited, educated and indoctrinated and very mistaken beliefs.

Yes, it would do us well to rediscover the pure, innocent, unbound Child within us. Then we find the freedom from fear and Joy and Wonder of Life and the Miracle and Mystical Magic of Life.

Just to encourage you, though you do know, you are on to Something Marvelous. Keep going in the direction of the Child. 8)
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.

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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by karmarider » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:38 am

Yes.

If the objective is to be a sane, natural human being, free from resistance and suffering--well, then the explanations you mention are irrelevant. Spirituality is irrelevant. Science is irrelevant.

Some of us come to this revelation after quite a bit of seeking.
Last edited by karmarider on Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by karmarider » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:01 am

rideforever wrote: And if we look deeper into the world of "explanations" we see that they are rubbish : someone will stand in front of you and "explain" something to you with total confidence - but if you press him again and again you will see that his is just a parrot repeating what he was told. His confidence is imaginary. His "explanation" is just repeating something he was told.
Be self-reliant.
Science : well it's the same here - it's imaginary. Someone gets on stage and very confidently says "we discovered the Higgs Boson" ... but if you look into the small print you see that they only discovered it to 99.99% and they "assume" that that is enough. In fact - scientists gave up on 100% a long time ago. That may surprise you. It sure surprised me.
It's not a surprise. Nor is it a secret.

Science has known this through the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle, Godel's incompleteness theorem, the double-slit experiment, and through observable and repeatable experiments.

You seem to think that working with probabilities is a weakness of science. I think it's a great strength.

Either way, if the objective is to be free, you don't need science.
And as for the spiritual path ... surely it just leads back here. Take it by all means, but it seems to me you are right now in the middle of something mystical - maybe you don't realise because too many "explanations" got stuck in your head ?
If the objective is to be free, you don't need to rely on a spiritual path.

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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by rideforever » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:25 pm

karmarider wrote:
Science : well it's the same here - it's imaginary. Someone gets on stage and very confidently says "we discovered the Higgs Boson" ... but if you look into the small print you see that they only discovered it to 99.99% and they "assume" that that is enough. In fact - scientists gave up on 100% a long time ago. That may surprise you. It sure surprised me.
It's not a surprise. Nor is it a secret.

Science has known this through the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle, Godel's incompleteness theorem, the double-slit experiment, and through observable and repeatable experiments.

You seem to think that working with probabilities is a weakness of science. I think it's a great strength.
Really ?

No experiments are repeatable : that is one repercussion of quantum mechanics. Do you know that ?

It is a secret - because scientists still pretend that they know things and people still listen.

Probability is not a strength for science because most people think they are working with the truth - they are misinformed. And the science community wants to keep things like that because they don't want to lose their jobs.

Is science anything at all ? Except a lie ?
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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by rachMiel » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:07 pm

rideforever wrote:Is science anything at all ? Except a lie ?
And I thought *I* was an anti-science person! ;-)

As I now see it, science is a metaphor for reality. A predictive model, one that enables certain attributes of reality to be predicted with a high degree of accuracy.

So, in the sense that a metaphor/model is a lie, sure: Science is a big fat lie. (As is every other metaphor/model of "reality.")

But it's a beautiful lie, one that teases at the truth with great intellectual power and elegance. And teasing is as close as our little brains can ever get. (Mine, in any case.)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by rideforever » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:42 pm

I am not sure there are any scientists. There are people who say they are scientists - there are people who say they are fire engines.

But in actual fact most of what happens to a human being is unknown and accepted - and so we are all mystics. We operate on the basis of trusting the unknown.

Now if somebody says "I am a scientist" he has basically become obsessed with a small set of ideas in his head, ignoring the greater reality of his own existence.

There are no scientists.

===========================================

What I hear from everybody here, whether for or against science ... is a very deep conditioning come from being born in this era - and a lack of imagination.

We are so deeply bred to believe in the promise of our glorious technological future, that people can't see the wood for the trees anymore.

I am not sure if science is a kind of poison.

Basically whether you believe in science or not, the worldview of most people is basically that given to you by the newspapers and education and culture. You might be an angel, but you think that basically you one of those 'people' who you read about.

I don't get a sense that many can conceive the deep level of brainwashing.

============================================

The system that is our culture sends out a pulse of ideology for all to follow. Previously it was religious, now it is technological.

The pulse is like the sheepdog to keep the sheep in line ... by saying : "look over here" , "look over here" , "look over here".

Today we say "thank god we are all technological now, because those backward mystic religious fools from previous generations didn't know anything". I am sure in another 200 years a new type of ideology will take over from technologism and those people will be saying the same about us and all the iPads.
Last edited by rideforever on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by coriolis » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:50 pm

rideforever wrote: Is science anything at all ? Except a lie ?
It is the closest approach the human mind ever has, and perhaps ever will, come to apprehending empirically verifiable truth.

Ultimately that may not be much, but relative to the dream of individual human beings moving about in an objective world, it is pretty amazing.

And people like you and I who post on Internet forums obviously do not "abide in the ultimate" just yet ..... :lol:
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin

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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by rideforever » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:56 pm

coriolis wrote:It is the closest approach the human mind ever has, and perhaps ever will, come to apprehending empirically verifiable truth
Aha a view I can understand !

But perhaps it is worse than you think. Perhaps without the ideological pulse sent out by our society's system, we would all be more in contact with our objective mysticism ... the ultimate.

You see the view you have sounds terribly reasonable : but still seems completely brainwashed to me. You think you are being objective and balanced ... but your mind was hijacked long ago.

> Is it really the closest approach we have ever had ? What about the native americans or aborigines - didn't the live well ? Weren't they then successful in the most important respects.

> empirically verifiable truth : if science is the closest I suggest we forget this game, because it is not close ... when they discovered that they had probably discovered the HiggsBoson to 5 Sigma ... that is 99.99999 (or something) ... it meant that it was 99.99999 what the MODEL had predicted - not what REALITY is.

Actually it is 99.99999% certain to get more funding - allowing these poor old men to continue playing with their penises (sorry space lazer) until they are completely dead (on the outside as well as the inside) - it is truly pitiful to see a group of 60 year old scientists crying over a printout - and these are supposed to be the best of our species. Forget it !

> this search for empirically verifiable truth is like the search a starved dog conducts for a bone when all the food has been hidden under his nose
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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by coriolis » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:09 pm

rideforever wrote: But perhaps it is worse than you think. Perhaps without the ideological pulse sent out by our society's system, we would all be more in contact with our objective mysticism ... the ultimate.
Science is perhaps the closest a human mind will ever come to empirically verifiable truth.
"Objective Mysticism" is an oxymoron in my opinion. This mysticism, oneness -- transcends the human mind and therefore the subject<->object paradigm which is it's modus operandi.
rideforever wrote: > Is it really the closest approach we have ever had ? What about the native americans or aborigines - didn't the live well ? Weren't they then successful in the most important respects.
The closest approach the human mind has had, yes.
Aborigines were not scientist studying phenomena -- they were wholly immersed in it to the point of being inseparable from it.
Their "knowledge", if it can be called that, was experiential, not experimental.
Theres quite a difference.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin

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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by rideforever » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:21 pm

coriolis wrote:Their "knowledge", if it can be called that, was experiential, not experimental.
Theres quite a difference.
What is the difference do you think ?

Like I mentioned earlier I am not sure science actually exists - perhaps it is a misinterpretation of the mysticism of life.
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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by coriolis » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:26 pm

rideforever wrote: What is the difference do you think ?
It is the difference between studying the science of sex and having sex with someone you find irresistible.

Both can be be useful but only one requires that you invest more than your "mind" into it.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin

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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by karmarider » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:17 pm

rideforever wrote:Is science anything at all ? Except a lie ?
Science knows very well that it is empirical. There is no big revelation here.

Human beings are under the delusion of dissatisfaction. You are free to spend your time and effort in lamenting how everything is a lie and how everyone's mind is hijacked and brainwashed.

Or you can do the work of eliminating the dissatisfaction in you.
Last edited by karmarider on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:40 am

It's no certainty (to 100%) that I'll wake up in the morning, but I'm going to leave a little of the milk for my breakfast, just in case.

:P

That's applying logical reasoning to probability. No mystery required, also no formulas.
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Re: Worldly Life is Mysticism

Post by rideforever » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:18 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:It's no certainty (to 100%) that I'll wake up in the morning, but I'm going to leave a little of the milk for my breakfast, just in case. :P That's applying logical reasoning to probability. No mystery required, also no formulas.
Sounds very reasonable.

However what if everything you were taught was a lie. What you call logic is just a lie that you learnt ? What then ?
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small

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