To search ... or not to search

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rachMiel
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To search ... or not to search

Post by rachMiel » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:55 pm

You often hear something like: "Want to awaken? Abandon your search."

For some, acting on this -- giving up the search -- might be just the ticket.

But for many of us, abandoning the search translates to falling back on one's conditioning, one's ego/self. And that's a dead end.

So I'd say, if you're searching, try "Abandon your search" on for size, and observe the results carefully. If it works, it works. If not -- if you find yourself falling back into old dysfunctional patterns of thought/behavior -- continue your search! Not doing so would be like stopping a koan halfway through; you need to go all the way.

Yes? No?
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Rick
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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by Rick » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:25 pm

rachMiel wrote:You often hear something like: "Want to awaken? Abandon your search."
The story is told. A man searched day and night looking for his glasses. One day a friend asked him "What are you looking for?" He replied "My glasses. I can't find them". "But you are wearing them on your nose, and looking through the very thing you are searching for" said the friend. "Ah, and so it is" said the now enlightened man.
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arel
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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by arel » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:32 pm

Searching is egoic. Driven by lack, for betterment of an individual. Fear based. Don't take my word for it, but see how "the search" feels. So the identity is stuck as a person, search and lack and fear is what a person is, who I am is at that point, The Search. But in that very search there can be a seeing of that fact of feeling yourself to be an entity searching. In that seeing there is also the seeing of that which is aware of that searching. Which always is. But we don't have a clear seeing, knowledge, that that is what we are, and not the searching entity, the person. The identity shifts, the search drops. So the teaching is a search in itself. But is essential to dropping the search. That's the way I see it.
Last edited by arel on Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by karmarider » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:32 pm

yes, no, maybe...hehe.

When I was seeking, I could not possibly have stopped my search. I might have heard that's the thing to do, but I still couldn't have just stopped. I think once we realize we are not who we take ourselves to be, and that there is another possibility, well, I don't think we can really ignore that. Willfully ignoring that would be just another practice.

I think this event that we call the "end of seeking" is the realization that the only problem there is and ever was, is delusion in the mind. Once that is realized, it is no longer about spirituality or non-duality or practice or meditation or beliefs or knowledge or particular lifestyle. It's not about how the universe responds to "me" or God or pretty sayings or quotations or capitalized spiritual words or clever parables. It is no longer about ego-improvement. It is then only about the seeing of, and elimination of, and the healing from, the delusion(s).

The question which pops up is whether the seeking is necessary at all. Is it possible to present this in a way that people don't have to seek for a while (some for the rest of their lives) before they stop seeking?

I think so. I think this is the value of people like John Sherman.

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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by rachMiel » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:02 pm

karmarider wrote:The question which pops up is whether the seeking is necessary at all.
And asking/contemplating that question is ... part of the search. No?
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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by rachMiel » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:04 pm

arel wrote:Searching is egoic. Driven by lack, for betterment of an individual. Fear based.
This may be true. Or not. Finding that out, for oneself, is part of the search. Right?
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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by rachMiel » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:10 pm

Krishnamurti said that there is no path to Truth. But that was after decades of following various paths.

Could he have arrived at his pathlessness realization before stubbing his toe over and over again on "the wrong" paths?

I don't think so. And I think the same applies to The Search. You need to fall down (and then get back up) as many times as it takes.
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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by runstrails » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:27 pm

Nice thread, rM.
In my case, it was search, search search until you are fedup and exhausted. Then it becomes obvious that there is nothing really to search for. But the initial exhaustive search was necessary. Who knows maybe the searching might start up again too :wink:.

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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by karmarider » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:45 pm

rachMiel wrote:Krishnamurti said that there is no path to Truth. But that was after decades of following various paths.

Could he have arrived at his pathlessness realization before stubbing his toe over and over again on "the wrong" paths?

I don't think so. And I think the same applies to The Search. You need to fall down (and then get back up) as many times as it takes.
That was Krishnamurti's (and many others') experience. It's mine as well--there have been false starts. But is that necessarily the way it has to be? Tolle claims, if he is to be believed, it happened to him overnight. And Ramana said the same. And yet others, like Jed Mckenna, say that it's a process and cannot happen overnight.

The thing is, nobody has yet clearly said what happens. Because probably they don't know (If they do know, they're being awfully cryptic about it).

I hesitate to come to any definite conclusion about whether is seeking is needed to see that it is not. It seems to me that there can be techniques which enable the elimination of delusion of me and delusion of fear in the mind. But I can't say that for sure.

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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by rachMiel » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:04 pm

karmarider wrote:That was Krishnamurti's (and many others') experience. It's mine as well--there have been false starts. But is that necessarily the way it has to be? Tolle claims, if he is to be believed, it happened to him overnight. And Ramana said the same. And yet others, like Jed Mckenna, say that it's a process and cannot happen overnight
Yes, thanks for pointing this out: Some might be able to awaken fully this very moment, without needing to search or fall down.

But wouldn't you agree that these people are few and (very) far between?

To think that it will happen to you because it has (allegedly) happened to a few exceedingly rare individuals ... isn't that a little like thinking you'll win the lottery because some people have?

I'm not trying to be cynical or negative. On the contrary: I'm saying take joy in The Search, and continue searching with full passion for as long as it takes, perhaps forever.

And by all means, as part of the search, question the urge to search!
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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by rachMiel » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:47 pm

It seems to me that there are two main flavors of searches.

1. I (think I) know what's out there; I want to find a way to reach it. The search for Awakening is in this category.

2. I don't know what's out there; I want to find out. Exploring the urge to search is in this category.

Flavor 1 is fraught with danger; it's just too easy to fabricate a simulacrum of what you are searching for. That said, if you're in a passionate flavor 1 search, I say: Go for it! Let the search take its course, who knows where it will lead.

Flavor 2 is afaic a wonderful way to live a life. Perhaps it IS awakening: To wonder joyfully about everything with every breath until your last.

(Almost) needless to say, these -- and all other statements I've made in this forum -- are my (current) takes on what makes the world go 'round, nothing more. :-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:48 pm

In Tolle's case, it did happen overnight after many years of heavy suffering but he also said that it took him a few years afterwards to fully understand what has happened to him.

.. so, before or afterwards, does it make any difference, the understanding takes time.

I like this quote from Nisargadatta (which I think applies to most):

“You seem to want instant insight, forgetting that the instant is always preceded by a long preparation. The fruit falls suddenly, but the ripening takes time.”

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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by arel » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:01 pm

rachMiel wrote:
arel wrote:Searching is egoic. Driven by lack, for betterment of an individual. Fear based.
This may be true. Or not. Finding that out, for oneself, is part of the search. Right?
I guess it's not always true. It could be out of curiosity for example. Which is less egoic. Though still is to a degree I would say. because it is adding to the knowledge that makes up the individual. But it doens't matter. "Drop the search" I think is meant in a context. There can be people who make a persona out of spiritual pursuits, they get caught up in it, derive their sense of self out of it, chase more knowledge. I think it's a better pointer to say "drop the search, you already know everything you need to know, and just look at your experience right now... who are you?".

And if I'm not mistaken Tolle read spiritual texts before that night he talks about, when he actually looked experientially at the statement "I cannot live with myself any longer".
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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by Blenderhead » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:32 pm

rachMiel wrote:You often hear something like: "Want to awaken? Abandon your search."

For some, acting on this -- giving up the search -- might be just the ticket.

But for many of us, abandoning the search translates to falling back on one's conditioning, one's ego/self. And that's a dead end.

So I'd say, if you're searching, try "Abandon your search" on for size, and observe the results carefully. If it works, it works. If not -- if you find yourself falling back into old dysfunctional patterns of thought/behavior -- continue your search! Not doing so would be like stopping a koan halfway through; you need to go all the way.

Yes? No?
Yes. That's because the best pointer is "stop thinking". Giving up the search only works, if you are able to stop thinking and be present.

The world is so alive, when there is no thought :-)

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Re: To search ... or not to search

Post by smiileyjen101 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:23 pm

Re-cognizing (what is) with the awareness of the appearance of illusion is kind of not searching, but clear seeing.

While the process is the same - for any moment of clarity you have experienced - be that a moment in nature, a moment of pure love etc etc the ability to focus on the illusions or the false emotions appearing real was still there, you just embraced that within the all of what is - the 'content' is always changing, the focus is always moving.

If you apply the same 'process' to whatever content you can be with 'what is' with more clarity, and in clarity there is the peace that you cannot find by 'searching' you can only notice it within the all.

If you reach a moment of clarity, and then you go ... oh but this won't 'stay' it's because you are confusing the impermanent nature of 'content' with the eternal nature of 'process'.

The process is always the same (embrace it all without false emotions appearing real taking the focus), the content is ever changing.

If you are putting energy into 'searching' the energy is in 'searching' - action.
If you are putting energy into 'evaluating' different resonances the energy is in 'evaluating' and in that you will primarily use your limited and judgemental or discerning mind - thinking.
If you are being - all of this and everything - then the energy is in being.

No thing is wrong, it just brings a different experience.
You are always experiencing the flow and conducting of energy.
Always.
Whether you see it, feel it, know it, or not.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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