Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

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Webwanderer
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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:30 pm

the key master wrote:We could say all experience is the movement of mind against the unmoving background of awareness.
We could say it, but that would not make it true, only a speculation - and a not particularly well founded speculation of experience.
If you see a giraffe in the distance, and it isn't actually appearing there, then clearly this giraffe is imaginary. It not only isn't real, but it isn't appearing either.
But, in another context, the experience is of imagining one is seeing a giraffe. Any conclusions are born of a particular context to the experience, whether the event is real or not. It can be argued that dreams are not real, but the experience of the dream, in the feelings it generates, are quite palpable. So is the feeling not an experience and therefore quite real?
It not only isn't real, but it isn't appearing either. Its entirely imaginary.
But as an experience, it is appearing within imagination. It may well feel real, and therefore in the context of a feeling experience, is quite real. A child imaging monsters in the closet may be having a mistaken perception, but is having very real emotional reactions. Again, can emotions be imaginary, when they're so inducive of experience - and does that not make the experience real?
... OTOH, in the experience, IS as real as it gets.
What does 'is as real as it gets' mean? Sounds like waffling.

WW

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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by the key master » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:02 am

Webwanderer wrote:the key master wrote:
We could say all experience is the movement of mind against the unmoving background of awareness.

We could say it, but that would not make it true, only a speculation - and a not particularly well founded speculation of experience.
So you know of an experience which isn't contained within the movement of mind against something which isn't moving? (good luck proving that)
I said,
If you see a giraffe in the distance, and it isn't actually appearing there, then clearly this giraffe is imaginary. It not only isn't real, but it isn't appearing either.
you said,
But, in another context, the experience is of imagining one is seeing a giraffe. Any conclusions are born of a particular context to the experience, whether the event is real or not. It can be argued that dreams are not real, but the experience of the dream, in the feelings it generates, are quite palpable. So is the feeling not an experience and therefore quite real?
Yes, we could call being a schizophrenic a real experience. If you are sitting on your couch, and you actually think there is a giraffe in your backyard consuming the foliage of your rhododendron bushes, and there isn't one actually there, and you decide to call 911 and tell them about the giraffe, you actually are experiencing that. This doesn't mean what you imagine to be there actually is.
i said,
It not only isn't real, but it isn't appearing either. Its entirely imaginary.
ww said,
But as an experience, it is appearing within imagination. It may well feel real, and therefore in the context of a feeling experience, is quite real. A child imaging monsters in the closet may be having a mistaken perception, but is having very real emotional reactions. Again, can emotions be imaginary, when they're so inducive of experience - and does that not make the experience real?
No, the giraffe isn't actually eating the foliage. That would be your imagination. Are these serious questions, or do you have other motives which you might not be conscious of when asking such things?
i said,
... OTOH, in the experience, IS as real as it gets.
you said,
What does 'is as real as it gets' mean? Sounds like waffling.
I don't know what you mean by waffling. Why don't we go back to what i said.
The idea that theyre separate isn't real. That they appear separate, OTOH, in the experience, IS as real as it gets.
I mean that the experience of separation is as real as separation gets. What did you think i mean Captain Waffles?

(putting your waffles in my toaster)

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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by Ralph » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:46 am

Wow ! ... the battle of the minds .. you gotta love it . :)

Thank God that awakening has got nothing to do with the mind. I think my signature says it all.

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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by the key master » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:52 am

Ralph wrote:Wow ! ... the battle of the minds .. you gotta love it . :)

Thank God that awakening has got nothing to do with the mind. I think my signature says it all.
What do you mean when you say awakening has nothing to do with mind? What does the word awakening mean for you?

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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by Ralph » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:04 am

the key master wrote:
Ralph wrote:Wow ! ... the battle of the minds .. you gotta love it . :)

Thank God that awakening has got nothing to do with the mind. I think my signature says it all.
What do you mean when you say awakening has nothing to do with mind? What does the word awakening mean for you?
just waking up to my true nature .. nothing more and nothing less.

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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by the key master » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:12 am

Ralph wrote:
the key master wrote:
Ralph wrote:Wow ! ... the battle of the minds .. you gotta love it . :)

Thank God that awakening has got nothing to do with the mind. I think my signature says it all.
What do you mean when you say awakening has nothing to do with mind? What does the word awakening mean for you?
just waking up to my true nature .. nothing more and nothing less.
Its best you dont say too much, otherwise you end up in the toaster with WW hehe.

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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by Ralph » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:29 am

the key master wrote:
Its best you dont say too much, otherwise you end up in the toaster with WW hehe.
:)

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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by ashley72 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:06 am

I think another useful way re-framing.... WHAT YOU RESIST PERSISTS.... would be to say: WHAT YOU FEAR PERSISTS.

FEAR is what stops you from moving forward in life. Anyone that has suffered from Social Anxiety disorder knows exactly what I'm talking about. :wink:

FEAR is definitely a form of Resistance to what is happening or going to happen.

This leads me to another question......Is Fear & Excitement the same.... separated merely by 180 degrees?

The flight-or-fight response is our body’s way of preparing us for engagement with some-thing. Whether you call it excitement or nervousness, it’s the same physical response to stimuli....just with the opposite phase relationship in play. Our conditioned interpretation of those strong feelings could decide whether we generally resist life or embrace it. :D

Next time we feel strong feelings of Fear associated with some thing.... is it opportunity to pose the question... is this a form of fear or merely feelings of agitation or excitement?

BTW, the word excitement scientifically means to agitate. :wink:

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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by Rick » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:58 pm

Can Consciousness lose part of itself in form? Some say that is exactly what happens in the game of life Consciousness designed so as to experience material existence.
the key master wrote: we could say in the dreamworld consciousness loses itself in form through what we call a mind. It becomes identified with mind. To wake up, it might "seem" like the mind or person needs grace, but in actuality, it was all a case of mistaken identity. The mind was never anyone to begin with.
This is exactly what we were discussing. Consciousness lost in form...the Consciousness that is hidden in the form of Jason, even as Consciousness plays the role of Jason to the hilt under the spell of forgetfulness. Can the Consciousness that is lost in the dream called Jason wake Itself up from the dream? How does Consciousness begin to realize itself out of the dream? Like the tree contained in the seed, does human consciousness trapped in form require "help" to realize its potential? In the case of the seed, the outside help comes in the form of soil and moisture. In the human being, to awaken to Inner Self, what is the Impetus? What causes Consciousness to realize Itself out of identification with the form of Jason? Suffering seems to be a major universal impetus. It seems that consciousness lost in form requires at least some help to realize itself.
Daily life IS spiritual exercise.

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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by the key master » Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:55 pm

rick said,
Can Consciousness lose part of itself in form? Some say that is exactly what happens in the game of life Consciousness designed so as to experience material existence.
Within a certain context, I don't mind saying that. But Oneness can't lose part of itself in anything. No souls left behind.
This is exactly what we were discussing. Consciousness lost in form...the Consciousness that is hidden in the form of Jason, even as Consciousness plays the role of Jason to the hilt under the spell of forgetfulness. Can the Consciousness that is lost in the dream called Jason wake Itself up from the dream?
Yes, that is what we are talking about. But consciousness isn't hidden in anyone's form. All form appears in consciousness.
How does Consciousness begin to realize itself out of the dream?
Its 'noticed' by something that isn't a person that there is a delusional person appearing in consciousness. As the person "allows itself to be noticed", the belief structures, and the boundaries of those structures, can be questioned and probed from "what seems like the inside". Consciousness is neither on the inside nor the outside of those structures, but rather, transcends the very structures themselves. In the absence of boundaries it is realized that there was never anyone to be free or trapped. Consciousness was deluded while already being free. In the absence of delusion, myths are dispelled.
Like the tree contained in the seed, does human consciousness trapped in form require "help" to realize its potential?
The human form cannot realize, as it is an appearance in consciousness. It is realized consciousness was never limited to any one individual appearance. If help is necessary, it will be provided along the way. Intention is of supreme importance.
In the human being, to awaken to Inner Self, what is the Impetus? What causes Consciousness to realize Itself out of identification with the form of Jason?
We speak of causes, but do we even understand the effect? Direct cause is a misnomer. Nothing causes the effect of transcending the realm of cause and effect.

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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by Rick » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:08 pm

the key master wrote: If help is necessary, it will be provided along the way.
Yes, and some might call that help...Grace.
Daily life IS spiritual exercise.


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Re: Is It True That What You Resist Persists?

Post by Rick » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:41 pm


I laughed out loud...thank you.
Daily life IS spiritual exercise.

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