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Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:55 pm
by SandyJoy
For me, it was really that I discovered the ego is not real. Therefore it was not something I could get rid of.

I realized that any ego here other than God's alone, was a false belief that there can be anything besides God going here.

I found out that there is not a separate awareness/identity outside of God's Awareness. I found there is only one awareness going here --- It is Here right now--- and in my words--- I found out this awareness belongs to God and God Only.

And, I found out that God is All there is, was, or ever will be.

Now I can say that honestly, there is no ego. There is no thick hard opaque shell that obscures recognition of ones True Self. . That is a false belief.

If I told others that they had to get rid of the hard shell-ego around them, that would only help to perpetuate the lie, it would not unbind those who are immersed in the desire to be rid of this (imaginary) ego that does not exist. Why make it more difficult and set up road blocks that we must over come the ego. This is saying we must fight and struggle to get rid of something that is impossible to be rid of---because, in fact, there is no shell and nothing blocking the view of Who We Are.

To claim the ego as something we have to get out from under because it it the original sin (as if we could)--and then if we had the right tools, sat the right way, spoke the right words, did the right inquiry, went to enough satsang, meditated longer, found the right teacher, lived, did, ate, stopped thinking longing enough to do something so we could take the shell off ---this is as bad as the old time religion.

Thank God, there is no original sin and no sinners and nothing to get rid of.

Why? Because there is no ego other than the one God is being. Why? Because there is no other mind here but God's alone.

We cannot find a personal little ego-self because it does not exist.

I think Jesus said it very well: "The Kingdom of the Father is like a man who had good seed. His enemy came by night and sowed weeds among the good seed. The man did not allow them to pull out the weeds ; he said to them : 'Do nothing ; so that You do not pull out the wheat along with the weeds.' For on the day of the harvest the weeds will be recognizable, and they will be pulled out and burnt."

How can I decide what is 'bad' and what is 'good' and which to pull out and what to burn?

And if the Kingdom is here at hand (and It is) and all seeds are good, then we cannot get rid of something that never existed in the first place. Who is the enemy that plants 'weeds' in the field?

If we are to get rid of anything, it would be that we get rid of the false belief That false belief is planted, watered, nurtured, perpetuated by our insistence that there really is personal "hard shell ego" that needs to be lifted off so we can find our True Self.

All we really need to know it that we are already free.

This awareness is Self Evidence of My Being which tells me That God is Being all that is.

I Am already free and unbound, I am Life Itself, Unending and Eternal as the unpossessed Body of God---Because the Only body here belongs to God.

I have nothing to fix, or heal or do, because there is no other than God and Its Ever Present Perfection.

God is the Totality of All That Is and God's Mind and Its Awareness is not encased in a shell, not covered up and not under a thick opaque hard shell.

No, no, no, we are already unbound and free, we pick up our scepter and we LIVE It! We do what we are here to do, to be, to Live--- We live It with great unabandon Joy and with all the Childlike Wonder and Delight that comes along with this Marvelous Truth of What Is---

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:15 pm
by SandyJoy
We have work to do---We gotta get going and do what we are here to do. The hang-up on ego only prevents us from doing what we are here to do---and It is time.

Time to pick up your scepter and run with It!

You might get some really wonderful insight about your Self from this wonderful piece:

http://www.williamsamuel.com/TheMelody.pdf

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:23 pm
by Rick
SandyJoy wrote:For me, it was really that I discovered the ego is not real. Therefore it was not something I could get rid of.

I realized that any ego here other than God's alone, was a false belief that there can be anything besides God going here.

I found out that there is not a separate awareness/identity outside of God's Awareness. I found there is only one awareness going here --- It is Here right now--- and in my words--- I found out this awareness belongs to God and God Only.

And, I found out that God is All there is, was, or ever will be.

Now I can say that honestly, there is no ego. There is no thick hard opaque shell that obscures recognition of ones True Self. .
Yes, once you know the Truth you are set free from the lie of a separate individual self apart from God. But what of those who, lets say, buy into the lie that bowing down toward Mecca 5 times a day and allows killing anyone who will not convert to their way of seeing things? Where is the awareness that they truly are now? Is it not hidden and obscured - from them - in a thick hard belief system? Do these not need to lay down an egoic life before they can pick up the eternal life they do not yet know is their birhtright? What else can you call a delusion that some will defend with your death rather than to see the error of their way?

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:56 pm
by SandyJoy
Yes, I agree, thank you Rick, it is true, we must do something for this world we live in and most especially now in these days we are in. As I can tell, you know too.

I believe that as I find and Live It, and you find and Live It, we, knowing we are the Unbound Light of God Already, the very Knowing allows to think and know as very strong and unique individuals with a "mind of my own" (oddly enough). We are not afraid and that makes all the difference in the world. We Live The Truth, You and I and them and those who have found It---We Do Good by way of the Light of Goodness---and we are Not duped by the crowd, not hustled by the hucksters, not conned to be one of the club, to follow the crowd.

We won't get sucked into the sheep mentality, we will stand strong, powerful, intelligent and alone and we will know right from wrong and we will know the Light is with us and we will know what to do.

Yes, we must find God to Be The All and then Live It fully and Wholly with all we got--- As I do It, and You do it, as We Find The Light We Are and Live It--Those of us who have found God to be All are Free and they Know Who they are ---and they have found The Child and We will Do what We are Here to Do in these times and these days now that it is time.

Now, it is time, Now we can do this, we are the Ones who bring the Light to rest of Our Self---We can DO This and we can turn this Ship around. It is important, it is the final hour. Now we must take a stand on the Side of Truth and Light---It is important now.

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:35 am
by Rick
SandyJoy wrote:Yes, I agree, thank you Rick, it is true, we must do something for this world we live in and most especially now in these days we are in. As I can tell, you know too.

I believe that as I find and Live It, and you find and Live It, we, knowing we are the Unbound Light of God Already, the very Knowing allows to think and know as very strong and unique individuals with a "mind of my own" (oddly enough). We are not afraid and that makes all the difference in the world. We Live The Truth, You and I and them and those who have found It---We Do Good by way of the Light of Goodness---and we are Not duped by the crowd, not hustled by the hucksters, not conned to be one of the club, to follow the crowd.

We won't get sucked into the sheep mentality, we will stand strong, powerful, intelligent and alone and we will know right from wrong and we will know the Light is with us and we will know what to do.

Yes, we must find God to Be The All and then Live It fully and Wholly with all we got--- As I do It, and You do it, as We Find The Light We Are and Live It--Those of us who have found God to be All are Free and they Know Who they are ---and they have found The Child and We will Do what We are Here to Do in these times and these days now that it is time.

Now, it is time, Now we can do this, we are the Ones who bring the Light to rest of Our Self---We can DO This and we can turn this Ship around. It is important, it is the final hour. Now we must take a stand on the Side of Truth and Light---It is important now.
Amen Sandyjoy.

The world grows ominous...but we will stand and shine as we are able. One never knows of what use one can be except for the taking of a stand for Right where we ought.

For you. A nice quote by WS regarding overcoming ego:

"(It is)...hard work of 'seeing' what we really are, and what we are not. Later, we may find that we were the Child all along and had just become lost, but without this journey into time and space, we would not value our true state."

Is that not beautiful?

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:26 am
by SandyJoy
Rick wrote:Amen Sandyjoy.

The world grows ominous...but we will stand and shine as we are able. One never knows of what use one can be except for the taking of a stand for Right where we ought.

For you. A nice quote by WS regarding overcoming ego:

"(It is)...hard work of 'seeing' what we really are, and what we are not. Later, we may find that we were the Child all along and had just become lost, but without this journey into time and space, we would not value our true state."

Is that not beautiful?
Yes, and thank you again. William says it with such honest, simple, clarity. He got that exactly right.

And yes, the world grows ominous. William saw what was coming when he wrote his last book. It is a powerful and profound book, really a guide for how to understand these times we have now entered. This is a profound and prophetic book that I really wish more people would read, especially those who have studied "non-duality" and now want to know "what to do with it"--- the message in this book is so important now.

Here is another quote from Bill's book:

"---The only ones who won't be conquered in the melee already begun, objectivist and subjectivist alike,
will be those who have moved onward in their studies to FIND the Light of the Child within themselves
and follow Its leadings rather than the world's.---"

--William Samuel "The Child Within Us Lives! A Synthesis of Science, Religion and Metaphysics" (1986)

Yes, "we will stand and shine as we are able" --- That seems, at this point, so far, all I know to do---and as porter at the door, I keep listening for the clarion call.

Like the butterfly wing effect; You, Brave Heart, just set in motion more Good for our world than you know.

Much Love to you Dear Child Heart.

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:14 am
by Rick
SandyJoy wrote:
Rick wrote:Amen Sandyjoy.

The world grows ominous...but we will stand and shine as we are able. One never knows of what use one can be except for the taking of a stand for Right where we ought.

For you. A nice quote by WS regarding overcoming ego:

"(It is)...hard work of 'seeing' what we really are, and what we are not. Later, we may find that we were the Child all along and had just become lost, but without this journey into time and space, we would not value our true state."

Is that not beautiful?
Yes, and thank you again. William says it with such honest, simple, clarity. He got that exactly right.

And yes, the world grows ominous. William saw what was coming when he wrote his last book. It is a powerful and profound book, really a guide for how to understand these times we have now entered. This is a profound and prophetic book that I really wish more people would read, especially those who have studied "non-duality" and now want to know "what to do with it"--- the message in this book is so important now.

Here is another quote from Bill's book:

"---The only ones who won't be conquered in the melee already begun, objectivist and subjectivist alike,
will be those who have moved onward in their studies to FIND the Light of the Child within themselves
and follow Its leadings rather than the world's.---"

--William Samuel "The Child Within Us Lives! A Synthesis of Science, Religion and Metaphysics" (1986)

Yes, "we will stand and shine as we are able" --- That seems, at this point, so far, all I know to do---and as porter at the door, I keep listening for the clarion call.

Like the butterfly wing effect; You, Brave Heart, just set in motion more Good for our world than you know.

Much Love to you Dear Child Heart.
And you as well.

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:46 am
by Webwanderer
Rick, there is one thing more important than what Tolle says, or Abe, or you... or anyone for that matter, including me. That of course is the truth. In that, I follow where ever it may lead regardless of consequences to my existing belief structure. If a given teaching gives me insight on a more inclusive perspective on life - one that has a lower entropy than a current perception, I honor it until it is no longer helpful or clarifying or it is superseded by a still clearer perspective. Do I have absolute clarity on life? Lol. Hardly. Worse, my sense is that it's likely that the best I'll do, or anyone, is a shadow of the Big Picture.

I have no interest in worshiping any teacher or teachings. I came here because the Tolle teachings were very helpful in bringing me greater clarity and understanding on matters of consciousness and being. The same can be said for any teachings I explore or I wouldn't be interested. We all do what we perceive is in our own best interest.

I might add that if you or anyone thinks I don't appropriately represent the forum as a moderator, feel free to make an issue with the other mods and with Admin Eric.

WW

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:37 am
by Rick
Webwanderer wrote:
I might add that if you or anyone thinks I don't appropriately represent the forum as a moderator, feel free to make an issue with the other mods and with Admin Eric.
I have forgotten what we have spoken of here. Can you save me from researching and guessing and just tell me what words of mine are you reacting to here?

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:50 am
by Webwanderer
RIck wrote:Saying that the ego is thrown around here like some disease that needs to be cured is one way to characterize the Tolle/non-duality/Advaita view I suppose. But its more likely that many, like myself, came here because this IS a Tolle forum, and not an Abe forum.
I didn't characterize Tolle as saying that at all. My suggestion is that there are some others who characterize Tolle's teaching as implying that. And for the record, while this is a Tolle forum, it is not exclusively a Tolle forum. From the title banner:

Eckhart Tolle Discussion Community

A discussion community revolving around Eckhart Tolle but not limited to him
Most of those who appreciate the Tolle message tend to agree with his statement that the "single most vital step on your journey toward enlightenment is this: learn to disidentify from your mind". You encourage just the opposite of Tolle who also says "Wisdom comes with the ability to be still.
I agree that dis-identifying with the mind is indeed vital. I've said as much on scores of occasions. Saying I encourage just the opposite is either inaccurate or out of context - which is a bit of a common theme here. Once recognition of one's tendency to identify with thought is recognized, and a measure of freedom is gained from constant attachment to one's thoughts, life continues unabated. What then? Sit in a cave and meditate till you keel over dead? Life opens up with recognition of identification. We are no longer, or at least less severely, trapped by our conditioned beliefs. Exploration potential explodes.

Look at your own life. You recognize thought and its tendency toward identification now, do you not? Yet are you not still buffeted by conditions and emotions taking you out of the clarity of your 'better' moments? Does your mind not still run on when you are not diligent in your observing of its conditioned actions? What seems like a contradiction to Tolle's encouragement to observe is simply a teaching that can make use of the negative emotions that arise as a result of slipping out of our clearer perspectives as useful guides to returning to that more clear/aligned state.

I know that there are those who say emotions are of no value as guides toward alignment. But I know better. I see it quite clearly and employ that knowledge with regularity. So from my perspective such disclaimers are non sense, because sensing the qualities of emotions the perfect guides back to clarity. I'm not even suggesting that it's the only way, rather that it is a very effective method to regain the peace in being that we all prefer - well, most of the time.

WW

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:57 am
by SandyJoy
I do not know much about the Abraham message-- I know it is about the Law of Attraction.

I appreciate the message, I think it has merit. I don't see why we should all be living in lack and misery, if there is a way to "think and grow prosperous" Why not? Is that so bad? I think not. I think Joy and abundance is our heritage and we should keep that in mind and not propagate the idea and belief in poverty or victimization or that austerity is somehow 'spiritual', and prosperity is not.

If we can live an abundant Life then we should well do it, and not accept beliefs that keep us from being all that we can be (and actually are already, but we need to accept the fact) .

I know, in my own life, there is a law of attraction. I am not sure exactly how it works, but I know it does work---perhaps not always in the way we think it will, but we do call to us the things we 'are'.

I know our attitude, the way we can heal or harm by our own beliefs.

If My Heart is Full and I am not afraid, then I will see that fullness and fearless attitude manifested in some kind of tangible 'thing'. It just has to be that way. We cannot NOT manifest tangible evidence of what we believe---It's just a fact of Life.

I know a joyful and grateful outlook on life creates a joyful and more abundant and kinder world around me. We all know that.

I know that if I were to be grumpy and angry and mean and self-concerned that my life would take on that sort of tangible evidence of that inner state of darkness. Of course it will, no one would doubt that.

Be it done to you as you believe---so be very careful what you believe.

The whole point of Tolle's teaching is that if we continue to dwell in the past and keep our mind always on worry and regret or fear or resentment, judgements, then, just as long as we nurture those thoughts and ideas in our mind all the time, is as long as we will see them manifesting as 'real' in our life. Of course. This is why we are to 'let go and be free' from the "old concepts" as they are very powerful and hold us to what we continue to carry with us. If we cannot let go of the past then we will keep seeing the evidence of it and then then we can keep saying "see, I told you so, I told you it was true"---

Belief and law of attraction are not 'tricks'--- It is not 'magical' --It is just that Life will show up exactly as what we are carrying around with us, as us.

Just in a very simple and logical way we see how those people that hold a lot of anguish and feel sorry for them selves and complain and are just narcissistic in general, those people to do not have anything good ever happen in their life. Then they complain all the more, and it just goes on and on.

If they say "no one likes me" then that is true, no one does. It is the natural reflection, mirrored back at them.

If I awake everyday and find the Light of God Everywhere I go, then I can look at the day with my mind free from clutter or worry, then everything I see is Beauty and Truth and Good---I see what I be---it is the Truth, it is how Life works. With my mind free and heart filled with grace and gratitude I see that Self I am in the beauty of the trees and the sky and the sweet crystal glimmering light of love twinkling in the dewy grass.

My eyes see the Light that I Am. And God looked around and saw everything was Good. The Living Word is spoken and 'seen' as the evidence of this world we walk through--- I am the world I walk through---It will appear to me to be What Is In My Heart---It's true.

Whose life would not be awful if they were filled with angst and hate all the time, if they believed they were 'rotten' then their world would be rotten. It's true, of course it would, anyone knows this. We change what we are and the world changes.

As in "be the peace you want to see"---

So, I can say that Life is beautiful because I am my world---So, it is important that I fill my mind and soul and being with Love and giving and kindness and tender care of Living. I know that God is the whole world, so I that makes it easy to see what I be--My heart is naturally filled with the Light of God's Living Presence, It is my Inheritance, It is what God Is, as the Child of God---and when I recognize and acknowledge this truth, I do literally see the shining beauty and strength and power and abundance and prosperity and creativity and all that is Good everywhere I look. The Light within is seen "out there" because the two are really one.

If I see wars and hate 'out there' (and I don't see those things in my life--- but I do see it on TV) then it is up to me keep the steady vigil of Love in my Life, keep myself from getting caught up in the lies and propaganda, and stay like steady beam of light--- and Maybe, maybe someday, I will see what Is In My Heart as the Beauty blossoming in the whole world 'everywhere' even on TV

If I do have something bad happen, then I STILL must not drop down and blame my self---That would only lead to misery and blame manifesting 'out there'--- I must, if bad things happen, know that they are actually Good things, and look for the Good that they are offering to me. Because they are good, we can find good in even the worst of disasters---It is true. Really, you have seen that in your own lives.

There is no way we can separate what we think and believe from the world we live 'in' all that I am is manifest or created, or shows up in the mirror reflection of What we are is "out there' around us all. It is the Same Mind, Seeing and Being, or Being and seeing.

There is no doubt that the law of attraction is real, it is just maybe not exactly as we think it is, but it is real--It's very nearly Reality Itself.

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:25 am
by smiileyjen101
:idea:

Death only frames the perspective of how one lives their life.

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:42 pm
by Rick
Webwanderer wrote:Saying I encourage just the opposite is either inaccurate or out of context
I put a link in that particular post of mine you've taken exception to. Go and re-read the thread the link points to. Note the differences between the second and third (your) posts. The one before yours encourages a distancing from thought, points toward simply resting in objective awareness and allowing thoughts to come and go without touching or labeling them. This is as Tollesque as it gets. Yours points to rolling up the sleeves and diving into the mind by deliberately creating thought to conquer unwanted thought. One points toward resting outside the mind as the still, quiet observer, yours encourages greater involvement with mind, a kind of fighting fire with fire. These are two starkly different things.

At risk of beating a dead horse, Tolle defines as plain as day, in a recent video, the opposites in The Power of Now approach verses the LoA approach. He is quite clear about the fundamental distinctions. When ever you take up a LoA approach you are by default in opposition to The Power of Now approach Tolle teaches. Pure Awareness and ego are mutually exclusive approaches. It can not be any other way.

But of course, there is nothing wrong with the LoA approach, it just isn't Tolle's Power of Now approach, and we should be absolutely clear about that.

As for your fitness as a moderator on this forum. That is none of my business and the thought has never crossed my mind until you mentioned it. I respect your authority and the rules your are charged to enforce, but other than that, you are just another mind in the world I interact with from time to time.

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:59 pm
by Rick
SandyJoy wrote:I think Joy and abundance is our heritage and we should keep that in mind and not propagate the idea and belief in poverty or victimization or that austerity is somehow 'spiritual', and prosperity is not.
I agree. Matt 6:33 points exactly toward what you say. But as Tolle says, there are two ways to manifest things. One way egoic, the other not. The only question is, do we know the difference?

Re: How can we know there's no death

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:49 pm
by Sum
Webwanderer wrote:
A belief that cannot be verified by direct-seeing, can always be subject to attack by a counter-belief.
No doubt this is correct. But beliefs can be sacred cows based on conditioning and fear, or they can be based on the substance of fair and open minded investigation. As a criminal investigator for several years I arrested and sent to jail a good number of people who I did not see commit the crimes I charged them with. However, even in the absence of that direct seeing, I was able to amass enough evidence to convince a jury of the truth of my belief in a suspect's guilt. It is also worth considering that a good deal of that conclusive evidence came from people who claimed to have some direct knowledge of the the events at hand, although none of the members of the jury were at the scene to confirm from personal experience what the witnesses had reported seeing.

I apply an even tougher standard to matters of consciousness viability beyond the physical. Now, I would not expect, or even suggest someone take my word for it. I'm simply pointing the fact that the evidence is strong indeed, and is available to anyone who is interested enough to do a thorough investigation.

WW
Sorry for taking so long to respond. Despite evidence from people claiming to have direct knowledge, people are still wrongly convicted. Yes, the more compelling the evidence the less likely it is that a wrongful conviction will occur. But it happens. What if the innocent "criminal" in this case is perpetual consciousness?

I'm all for considering the evidence, I just don't think there is anywhere near enough evidence to say we KNOW that consciousness continues on after death. I don't believe evidence can be incontrovertible for any belief, in fact. At best, we can base our beliefs on what seems to be true at the time. No beliefs are sacrosanct (including the belief that no beliefs are sacrosanct) ;)