How can we know there's no death

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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby dijmart » Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:29 am

the key master wrote:
Right so we could say the illusion of separation exists but separation does not.

That's interesting about dreams and your conscious ability to recall them. Maybe a situation you are in now is amplifying a previously dormant vibration. Or maybe a currently active vibration is kicking up emotional energy into a guiding pattern. So many possibilities, and what fun to explore.


Right...no seperation exists..Absolute awareness is every-thing, but fundamental pure awareness is not a thing, it is the subject...you. So, objects depend upon awareness for their existence, but awareness depends upon no-thing for its reality, it is all pervasive.

Dreams...mind is more inward turning these days(can't explain it), perhaps that's the vibrational change? Why that would affect dream recall...don't know, since I've been out of the dream recall business for about 5 yrs now. I didn't think of them much since I thought I wasn't dreaming anymore.
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby dijmart » Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:51 am

Key said-
You seem to be equating self improvement with seeing through self identification. Seeing that you aren't a person is the last thing any person would want. Nevertheless, if there wasn't a perceived benefit, it would never happen, and if it does happen, it's obviously not something that happens to a person, which is why talking about it can make people loopy. My suggestion is that this benefit is not personal, but is the liberation experienced from the absence of being personally identified. Any further application to the human experience is redundant, meaning, more conscious living is inevitable as the person becomes less unconscious.


This is the way I see it also! I haven't always seen it this way and it's been a long road or so it seems, but ahhh so refreshing. The mind has calmed as a result, nothing is so serious anymore. Even if it is, it isnt...again hard to explain. Assimilation of what is seen can take a lifetime.
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby dijmart » Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:42 am

Am I going through healing? Absolutely! Healing involves embracing and expression of my emotions and feeling into my experience.


Been there..done that, since is it a necessary step..probably. Had a rough childhood and had to feel and release a lot of it...it is healing. Does everyone have to? if you have the urge to, then you do...only you would know. Some can by- pass steps, others cant. I've had nervous breakdowns too, thoughs were fun. Also have M.S. and understand your point about your body reacting against you, but...try to distance yourself from your body, it's not you. I've been distancing myself from my body for awhile unless something screams for attention. I know I have MS but starve it of attention. I've refused MRI's for 8 yrs because I didn't want to know the progress or give my attention to it. Well, was having serious memory issues few months ago and neurologist demanded an MRI (BWT, memory issues were caused by almost non existent vitamin D level) but MRI was shocking. No MS progression and brain lesions were shrinking compared to past MRI. How? Medical science can't explain as I've refused all MS drugs for years. So, other then bringing it up briefly for a discussion, I don't talk about it or give it any attention what so ever! Somehow that works for me, however when i was young and just diagnosed ( ive been diagnosed now 24 yrs) it's all I could think about and was horribly fearful of the future. Not only did the MS get worse, but symptoms affected me so much so I had to go on disability. One day I said I'm not doing this any more, nope, I refuse. I will not take my MS medication anymore. I will not give it my attention. Went to college, got off disability, went to work and haven't looked back since and it's been 8 years. Exactly the time frame of my last MRI and ever since no more disease progression and lesions are shrinking.
Edit- I've been working for 8 yrs, sorry, so took a few yrs (while I was in college) to start the reversal process or so it seems.
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby the key master » Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:46 am

E said,

I'm saying there is no illusion to living this physical life. That's it. I don't see an illusion. The only illusion, I see, is when WE (myself at times included) believe we are a thought or an emotion or a feeling only by identifying with that. That's where the illusion lies.


Could you elaborate?

Healing involves embracing and expression of my emotions and feeling into my experience. Everything is energy. I've been studying energy healing and have come to a much greater understanding of how emotions that are suppressed lead manifest in the body as physical ailments. I'm not sure where you see a "crisis" in that.


The crisis I was talking about was in your other post, where you mentioned loving your experience as the most important thing and then were talking about Being and Love and the interconnectivity of everything and being Being and being Love. Then you mentioned applying Being to your experience to make it better and I suggested something being fundamentally misunderstood about the nature of identification, which you acknowledge above is an issue you're having.

If anything, it's been the most incredible journey of my life after suffering through years of a debilitating chronic illness in finally understanding how freeing it is to be able to authentically relate to my own experience and others by allowing those suppressed emotions as a child to finally come out.


That's wonderful. Do you notice any remnants of a victim identity functioning in your experience? WHat was the illness you went through? Glad to see you dancing. It's hard to be angry or sad AND dance at the same time. Ever notice that?
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby the key master » Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:50 am

dijmart wrote:
the key master wrote:
Right so we could say the illusion of separation exists but separation does not.

That's interesting about dreams and your conscious ability to recall them. Maybe a situation you are in now is amplifying a previously dormant vibration. Or maybe a currently active vibration is kicking up emotional energy into a guiding pattern. So many possibilities, and what fun to explore.


Right...no seperation exists..Absolute awareness is every-thing, but fundamental pure awareness is not a thing, it is the subject...you. So, objects depend upon awareness for their existence, but awareness depends upon no-thing for its reality, it is all pervasive.

Dreams...mind is more inward turning these days(can't explain it), perhaps that's the vibrational change? Why that would affect dream recall...don't know, since I've been out of the dream recall business for about 5 yrs now. I didn't think of them much since I thought I wasn't dreaming anymore.


That sounds good to me. On the dreams, perhaps. Perhaps an increase in emotional sensitivity brought about from a decrease in personal drama is kicking up imagery to highlight certain feelings for deeper exploration. We could open a discussion on the spirit world and spirit bodies and the nature of dreams but maybe a different thread would be appropriate.
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby the key master » Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:56 am

dijmart wrote:Key said-
You seem to be equating self improvement with seeing through self identification. Seeing that you aren't a person is the last thing any person would want. Nevertheless, if there wasn't a perceived benefit, it would never happen, and if it does happen, it's obviously not something that happens to a person, which is why talking about it can make people loopy. My suggestion is that this benefit is not personal, but is the liberation experienced from the absence of being personally identified. Any further application to the human experience is redundant, meaning, more conscious living is inevitable as the person becomes less unconscious.


This is the way I see it also! I haven't always seen it this way and it's been a long road or so it seems, but ahhh so refreshing. The mind has calmed as a result, nothing is so serious anymore. Even if it is, it isnt...again hard to explain. Assimilation of what is seen can take a lifetime.


Yea, I mean, by all means, live more consciously. I think it's a very good thang. It's not something a person does, and I was doing my best to point through that illusion.
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:21 am

Just saw Key's post, so Key, I'll just respond here instead combined with Di's post and make this the most obnoxiously long post ever. 8)

Di, I know your story pretty well with your disease and not all diseases stem from the same cause like mine. I love hearing your stuff. Let me flat out say that no, not everyone needs to do what I talk about at all haha. Thanks for always sharing your stuff so vulnerably. Even if you disagree with some of my posts, it's all good. I love you too :D

I really love Webwanderer's posts on this forum (if it hasn't been evident already) as I consider him a friend and he's really inspired me a lot and I resonate a lot with his posts about alignment and how our feelings are guides for that. Not to mention he's completely opened my eyes to the world of NDE's. However, some of us, myself included, need to go deeper at first, and that's just what I've done of late and still doing and needed to do, by bringing a lot of shit from my past to be consciously seen,expressed and released. It's been incredibly painful, but incredibly healing beyond words. I'm working with a bio-energetic therapist which has so much helped me to release emotions by learning how to express myself, which was so hard for me for so many years due to suppressed shame I carried around.

I have chronic fatigue syndrome, crohns disease (which I mostly healed through diet and nutrition) and a plethora of other symptoms which manifested first in 2008, granted I'm a lot better now. Technically 2007 actually. And the cause of my illness I finally pinpointed to emotional suppression throughout my life, (anger and shame). I know this because I've finally reached a path of feeling better once I started finally addressing the emotional component.

Believe it or not, I never had a rough childhood. However, what I did have was major shyness and suppression of emotions because of certain situations which I perceived as a young child as traumatic such as being neglected and it's spiraled downhill for many years and manifested into possessive relationships with girls, anger issues, jealousy etc until very recently where I've REALLY started healing.

I like the word integration instead of healing.

I've used my body for this. The body has been such an incredible vehicle and vessel for integration, because what I'm learning through energy healing is that the body does not lie as the expression goes. And energy healing is all about expression of energy. Vulnerability is a heck of an ally. We are expressive, creative beings at heart, and that's why emotions have to flow. Emotions are energy. I've started ecstatic dance over the last two months and it's been such a really cool experience right at the edge of my comfort zone and incredibly uncomfortable at the same time haha. If the emotions don't flow, it's energy that gets stuck and manifests as illness. Dancing is flow. Sensuality is flow. Sexuality is flow. Vulnerability is flow.

Awareness might be the ground of all Being, and self realization is a vital stepping stone to experiencing this, but that's just where life begins I feel and maybe I'm missing something, but I feel it doesn't mean there is nothing going on between the lines and many get stuck there sadly which becomes a trap. Oh well. Life is a constant expansion and contraction of infinite Oneness through the exploration and lessons learned through incarnation. It often takes physical illness to get a greater understanding that there IS a person (albeit NOT separate) and understanding of how energy flows through emotions and through the body to realize that there is far more to integrating/healing and to understand about our human lives, than simply denying the self. There are also past lives which can't be ignored.

I've probably answered most of the questions in this post Key. As far as the identification that you reference, unless you've completely done away with any association with your thoughts and your body, and you NEVER take your thoughts to be you anymore, which ultimately would make you the most enlightened person on the planet 8) , then I'd say we ALL identify with our thoughts from time to time. THAT is the illusion that I speak of. That's literally all I'm saying. You're calling it an identification crisis and I'd say that's likely you reading into it a bit much. The illusion is when we believe that we are only our thoughts, feelings, emotions. Sure, physical reality is not really as solid as we think. So, I can see that from a certain perspective, we can say that physical life is an illusion. Yet, I don't really feel that has much meaning to me to be honest at this time.

Nanci Danison gives a breakdown of perspectives from Source, to Light Being to human. Basically, everything is more unreal depending on the level of reality it is being viewed from. Physical life is very very real if you ask me. What's NOT real is the identity I create out of my thoughts if I choose to....aka...the ego. But, I never said it was an identity crisis LOL. You said that. I was speaking on behalf of all of us. We ALL have an identity crisis that means. But, even THAT is not a crisis, because it's an intended aspect of the physical experience.

There is no crisis here for anyone. There is nothing inherently wrong with any of it. I can honestly say I'm open to greater understanding the more I allow in my experience. Growing never stops. We are infinite Beings.
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby dijmart » Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:33 am

Key said-
Yea, I mean, by all means, live more consciously. I think it's a very good thang. It's not something a person does, and I was doing my best to point through that illusion.


I use to think it was the person that did it ( from the ego point of view), but now I know it's not. However, while the person thinks they're a person they have to try and learn the knowledge (if the urge/desire is there), they have no other way. But ultimately if a shift happens it wont be the person doing it and they'll know it. I think you pointed to that well.

Btw, the nature of dreams thread has been created!
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby dijmart » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:14 am

Di, I know your story pretty well with your disease and not all diseases stem from the same cause like mine. I love hearing your stuff. Let me flat out say that no, not everyone needs to do what I talk about at all haha. Thanks for always sharing your stuff so vulnerably. Even if you disagree with some of my posts, it's all good. I love you too 


Kisses xoxo! Here's the thing, I can see from your perspective (it's the human condition), but don't feel it's the ultimate perspective, as annoying as that sounds and I won't go further. :lol: Anyways, I was diagnosed with MS at 21 yrs old. I'm sure the disease was due to emotional issues and suppression ( along with environmental and genetic predisposition) i had childhood issues with my biological mother , then my step mom and dad left me at 18 and moved out of state and I had a really hard time with it...cried all the time, but never told them how angry I was. All in all, for me the old issues were all uncovered, expressed in one way or another (therapy) and it's been over and done with for a long time.

As a side note- I would lovvveee to see you do this ecstatic dancing, i might even pay money! :mrgreen: But seriously, if it helps, awesome, keep on dancing!
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby the key master » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:00 am

Enlightened2B wrote:I really love Webwanderer's posts on this forum (if it hasn't been evident already) as I consider him a friend and he's really inspired me a lot and I resonate a lot with his posts about alignment and how our feelings are guides for that. Not to mention he's completely opened my eyes to the world of NDE's. However, some of us, myself included, need to go deeper at first, and that's just what I've done of late and still doing and needed to do, by bringing a lot of shit from my past to be consciously seen,expressed and released. It's been incredibly painful, but incredibly healing beyond words. I'm working with a bio-energetic therapist which has so much helped me to release emotions by learning how to express myself, which was so hard for me for so many years due to suppressed shame I carried around.


Yea, that's really what spiritual work is all about, being conscious of the tendency to avoid emotion which allows spontaneous expression.

I have chronic fatigue syndrome, crohns disease (which I mostly healed through diet and nutrition) and a plethora of other symptoms which manifested first in 2008, granted I'm a lot better now. Technically 2007 actually. And the cause of my illness I finally pinpointed to emotional suppression throughout my life, (anger and shame). I know this because I've finally reached a path of feeling better once I started finally addressing the emotional component.


Oh ok. It's nice to hear you're feeling better.


I've probably answered most of the questions in this post Key. As far as the identification that you reference, unless you've completely done away with any association with your thoughts and your body, and you NEVER take your thoughts to be you anymore, which ultimately would make you the most enlightened person on the planet 8) , then I'd say we ALL identify with our thoughts from time to time. THAT is the illusion that I speak of. That's literally all I'm saying. You're calling it an identification crisis and I'd say that's likely you reading into it a bit much. The illusion is when we believe that we are only our thoughts, feelings, emotions. Sure, physical reality is not really as solid as we think. So, I can see that from a certain perspective, we can say that physical life is an illusion. Yet, I don't really feel that has much meaning to me to be honest at this time.



Identification is an unconscious condition. The illusion is that it is a personal condition. It's a condition consciousness finds itself in due to the repressive function of the mind or person. In that identified state, the illusion that you are a person that can realize your true nature beyond the person becomes possible. What actually happens is the illusion of being a person is seen through, and this can happen along numerous lines of thought/feeling/experience. Dismantling the facade, allowing, becoming conscious, noticing, inquiry, and yes meditation are all things that we can seemingly do as separate people to facilitate this process.

I never meant to equate disidentification with disassociation, although often times the ego identity becomes so dysfunctional a degree of disassociation becomes necessary to provide egoic comfort during the collapse of identity and belief structures. Rather than speak of identification as a mind state it may help others to talk about it in terms of beliefs and belief structures, so that people can start to question the beliefs from the inside and work their way out. More often than not we see the compartmentalized energy shift from one belief structure into another through emotional disassociation and, believe it or not, spiritual teachings and meditation practices and what those practices mean to the person who is doing this or that. This is where things tend to get wacky, pointers become moons, teachers become saviors, and seekers become all pervading oneness blobs.
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby the key master » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:06 am

dijmart wrote:Key said-
Yea, I mean, by all means, live more consciously. I think it's a very good thang. It's not something a person does, and I was doing my best to point through that illusion.


I use to think it was the person that did it ( from the ego point of view), but now I know it's not. However, while the person thinks they're a person they have to try and learn the knowledge (if the urge/desire is there), they have no other way. But ultimately if a shift happens it wont be the person doing it and they'll know it. I think you pointed to that well.


Yah yah seeing through the illusion of doership does not prevent you from doing what you want. One could even argue that the only way to truly do what you want is through seeing through that very illusion.

Btw, the nature of dreams thread has been created!


Nice, will check it out tomorrow. Maybe after my night time sleepy dream head movies. :lol:
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby dijmart » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:39 am

En2b,

I just wanted to add that imo if a disease is caused by emotion and suppression of those emotions, that it doesn't mean that disease (in all cases) will just dissolve or improve when thoughs issues are resolved. Here's why, because if left unchecked, for a very long time (like mine were), then the disease has a certain amount of momentum by then, has a life of its own, its kinda like a negative energy entity within the body creating chaos. That's why I had to starve it of attention, not breathe any new life into it (kinda like the pain body). I wasn't sure it would work, but knew I had to try.

Now, as you say, not all diseases are caused by emotional suppression and I agree. So, I am not endorsing this route for every illness or disease, just want to make that very clear. This body has another illness that I'm "not" thinking has been caused by emotional suppression, since its hereditary in my family and not autoimmune, so for that, I follow a strict modern medicine philosophy. Ok, I'm done..lol.
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:45 pm

dijmart wrote:En2b,I just wanted to add that imo if a disease is caused by emotion and suppression of those emotions, that it doesn't mean that disease (in all cases) will just dissolve or improve when thoughs issues are resolved. Here's why, because if left unchecked, for a very long time (like mine were), then the disease has a certain amount of momentum by then, has a life of its own, its kinda like a negative energy entity within the body creating chaos. That's why I had to starve it of attention, not breathe any new life into it (kinda like the pain body). I wasn't sure it would work, but knew I had to try.


I hear you and there's definitely something to be said for that and it really depends on the disease and the cause as you stated, not all illness is caused by the same thing. MS which you have, is a very different animal.

But I can tell you that most chronic stress related diseases (crohns, CFS, fibromyalgia, candida/dysbiosis in the gut, UC, IBS, EBV, etc), are almost always caused by chronic stress as a starting point which in turn is related to emotional blockages. Most of it begins in childhood, which you can't know unless you really dive into your experience. That's how I've healed/integrated what needed to be integrated. It's a combination of factors though. Emotional suppression/blockages are an aspect of disease. Inner child work is a very legitimate practice. Toxicity in the body due to diet/nutrition is another factor and of course....genetics which detail the susceptibility to certain diseases. But, it's been working wonders for me, the more emotional stuff that I express, not just in a therapeutic environment. No. I'm talking about authentic living in general, which means really coming out of my shell by working consciously through fears. Unraveling those beliefs that have kept me in a prison for so long. Speaking my mind without worry of rejection...and most of all accepting them, embracing them, loving them, and feeling within my body for their effects. I feel this is all part of authenticity. The more authentic we become, the more open the throat chakra becomes. And when we DO beat ourselves up over something, just love THAT too as that TOO is part of our experience.

I no longer really am too keen on Eckhart Tolle's practices pertaining to the pain body. Meaning, there's a lot more to the painbody than he mentions. I'll leave it at that. Thanks.
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:16 am

I saw this post on face book and thought I'd share. It's from Anita Moorjani in relation to healing. Not entirely related to the conversation, but includes both aspects of what I'm saying and what di is saying as both of us I think have a lot of insight based on our own experiences. So, thought it might be interesting to anyone who's reading this and interested in healing. Healing to me has become less about "fixing" as much as it is about integrating aspects of ourselves that we've kept in the dark energetically.

Many who would like to heal themselves want to know how to go about things like “trusting in your own healing,” “letting go and allowing healing,” and “accessing your place of healing.” Are these platitudes of any use to the average person? People who want to heal their bodies need to know how to put such things into practice.

A: I don’t like to advocate a set methodology, instructions, or anything like that, because if I do, I’m only creating more dogma, and the whole point is to be free of that. I do suggest, however, not viewing illness or symptoms as “something to be gotten rid of,” like an enemy. This a fear based reaction. For me, the appearance of these symptoms is my body’s way of trying to heal me. I know that if I try to eliminate the illness with an adversarial attitude, I end up doing the opposite, antagonizing it and embedding myself deeper into the illness mind-set.

This doesn’t necessarily mean that you don’t go and see a doctor. I’m purely referring to how I view disease or physical manifestations of the body. The idea is not to obsess about it and have your days revolve around doing things for the sole purpose of getting rid of the illness. It’s actually far more productive to distract yourself and stay occupied with activities that stimulate you in a positive, creative way.

As far as I could, I’d try to free myself from needing my health to be a certain way in order to find happiness and just create joy in the moment, as though I were already healthy. Living in the present means not carrying any emotional baggage from one segment of time into the next. Every instant is unique and can’t be replicated. It’s our choice whether to carry our fears with us, keeping us stuck in illness.

You don’t have to be a spiritual guru or anything. Just make the most of every minute, living it to the fullest and doing things that make you happy, whether you have a month to live or 100 years." ~ Anita Moorjani, Dying to Be Me: My Journey from Cancer, to Near Death, to True Healing
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Re: How can we know there's no death

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:26 am

My ears were burning :wink: I've now read all the updated posts long & short :D

This topic has branched far & wide, so I don't feel uncomfortable adding this here.

The attributes of dis-ease encompass physical manifestations of (eternal) energy stalling, fermenting, blocking, stagnating, until such time as it does get our attention. Overt attention and the quality of the attention (energy) contributes to the continued holding pattern or the releasing of. There can be downsides to ignoring it because pain or dis-comfort are trying to tell us something.

I find best now to 'notice' and 'acknowledge' - discernment more than judgement, acceptance more than rejection - in ET speak not making enemy, obstacle or means to an end of a thing. Then to 'enquire' interview the fact(ors), see what one can let go of after recognising what it is one is holding onto.

Life energy & music go hand in hand for me, one explains the other.

As an example, totally surround, absorb & melt yourself in the piano line of the following song - there are a myriad of 'distractions' but the piano is always there, for the most part comfortingly repetitive - the crescendos and unexpected silences and break through energies overlay that which is constant. As with life, as with love at the basis of life/creation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn_Jf2ByhQs
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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