Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

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rachMiel
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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by rachMiel » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:26 pm

rideforever wrote:If you go through both the paths yourself then yes, you have something to say.
You say a lot in this forum, rideforever. Have you been through all the paths on which you cast your judgment? Do you speak from knowing, rather than speculation?

I deeply (deeply) doubt it.
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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by rachMiel » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:50 pm

I sent the David Paul Boaz quote to Dennis Waite asking him if he agreed with it, and here is his response:

"Basically, what he says is NOT correct. Buddhism’s shUnya is refuted by Gaudapada in the MU kArikA and by vyAsa in the Brahmasutra. Nothing is not something; brahman is absolute Consciousness.

"As a general principle, if you want to learn about Advaita (or follow the teaching of Advaita to reach enlightenment), then you need to read/listen to traditional teachers and not read either academics or satsang/neos. If you don’t, then you are continually laying yourself open to confusions, diversions and cul-de-sacs."

BOOM!
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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by SandyJoy » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:51 pm

I'll put my 2 cents in on this one---

Yes, there is a lot of confusing messages, but I never studied "Advaita" and had not even heard of it until "the Neo-Avaita-non-duality" popularity mainstream over the last few years--- so, what I want to say is not about non-duality or Advaita---

I think it is not about the 'road' you take, but it is about the driver.

From what I have found, it is certainly not about finding emptiness---quite the opposite---It is about finding the fullness of Life---Everything-- It is about feeling alive and feeling peace and feeling like you have found Your Self again and the whole world becomes rich and meaningful and alive and wonderful again. And you understand things, you See What Is-- you don't even have to read or learn about or be taught.

And I say "again" in that when you find your self, it is as if you have returned to the arms of a long lost loved one, someone missed very very much---you recognize in a way that feels so wonderful as in "oh, yes, I remember you! You are Me!" I am home, I remember Me! I found you-- I remember this one I love, this one I thought I'd lost--

And this one that is you-- you are the Child who lived before the world was ---What a joy and relief it is--what a gift of Grace-- and you don't even have to win the deserving of it---no, I did not deserve this, it was by Grace alone---that my heart was given this--- I only told my self to stay with the Light, stay with Light, do not drop down---and then I was given this marvelous gift, I found Me as It found Me, I found me again, just this, my simple sweet me-- I am My Living second chance, born again--right here in the world, to Live Again--This time, now with My Self at the helm, I live rightly, this time Knowing who I am---

And not being afraid to speak up and say it-- I am that Child again, and she is the same one I remember that lived for a little while in the world as the tangible little girl in cowboy boots and twilling skirts-- so innocent and pure and She is Me once again, the re-discovery of My Self. It's not about getting to emptiness, it is about finding It All, feelings and depth and passion and love and strength and knowing -- and It is the most marvelous and wonderful thing to have happen-- Even better, when you thought you were supposed to lose something called an 'ego' or "I" or "me" ---and instead you lose nothing real at all---but you gain The All.

The only lose I saw was the lose of stupidity. That's it, that's all you will lose. That was Great! What A Joy that lose is.

And that happens 'as' you find Your Self---not before, not as a goal to achieve. We do not know our own stupidity, until it falls away---We don't know the wheat from the tares, so, it is not up to us to try to separate them while in the field.

We will know which is which at the Harvest.

As the old sailors know---You don't have to struggle with the barnacles: the barnacles fall off the ship without any effort when you sail your ship into the clear pristine waters. Just by being in the clear waters, docking there in the pristine water and letting that water do the work, the barnacles just fall off-- no scrapping and hard work involved.

Troubles fall away as you stay with the Light of Truth. They are only there for Good and to Awaken you to come home to Who You Really Are---Let the troubles be and be grateful for Life poking at you, nudging you into the Clear Waters that the Truth is God IS ALL That Is going on here, God is All That IS ---Everything is This Light of God's Being---and You are the very Living Light of This Eternal Light, The Living Awareness of This the One, Godhead All.

You, it's a surprise, but it turns out to be really all and only about You, finding Your Self just the way you remember, that Child is returning to you--- the one you always were and will forever be---a Real and True You, right here in the world, right here you come totally alive again. No 'non-duality' no nothing---just open and living again, free and unafraid and in Love---because the 'stupid' fell off, what is left is Pure and Innocent and can see, feel, and Know, Touch, and Be with The Living One, right here, right now, The All That I Am is the Life I Am and It is All That I Am and It is My (your) very own, personal knowing of the Livingness of this Whole Total, Infinite Being of This Living Presence of God That Is Life Itself.

One, there is Only One---You sail your ship into The Knowing This IS True and You will see for your self---You know It is True because You Exist---It is Perfect---How beautiful that nothing real is lost and all that God is is within You as your very own blessed Child Self, as your one and only self, the one you have always been--- the one God knows and will always know---just you, sweet simple, dear, precious you--- here just being you. Then you will know how to live here in the world, you will have all you need within you-- and you will know what is real and the reasons for and why this experience of this world just the way it is.

I over did it here with words--that was way over 2 cents :roll:
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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by tod » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:10 pm

To me, that Boaz quote shows that trying to describe what you really are only engenders confusion. How's your neti neti practice going? You are what is at the end of that.

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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by rachMiel » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:19 pm

tod wrote:To me, that Boaz quote shows that trying to describe what you really are only engenders confusion. How's your neti neti practice going? You are what is at the end of that.
Thanks for asking, Tod. Neti neti neti! It's going well. Knowing what is *not* true comes quite naturally for me. And I have a feeling you're right ... unravel long/deep enough, and ... _______________ . :-)
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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by rachMiel » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:37 pm

SandyJoy wrote:You, it's a surprise, but it turns out to be really all and only about You, finding Your Self just the way you remember, that Child is returning to you--- the one you always were and will forever be---a Real and True You, right here in the world, right here you come totally alive again. No 'non-duality' no nothing---just open and living again, free and unafraid and in Love---because the 'stupid' fell off, what is left is Pure and Innocent and can see, feel, and Know, Touch, and Be with The Living One, right here, right now, The All That I Am is the Life I Am and It is All That I Am and It is My (your) very own, personal knowing of the Livingness of this Whole Total, Infinite Being of This Living Presence of God That Is Life Itself.
I'll have what she's having. ;-)

As I said a few weeks ago in a response to another classic SandyJoy posting: Just show me where to sign.
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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by tod » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:38 pm

rachMiel wrote:
tod wrote:To me, that Boaz quote shows that trying to describe what you really are only engenders confusion. How's your neti neti practice going? You are what is at the end of that.
Thanks for asking, Tod. Neti neti neti! It's going well. Knowing what is *not* true comes quite naturally for me. And I have a feeling you're right ... unravel long/deep enough, and ... _______________ . :-)
I really like the _______________ :)

On a side note, I found Byron Katies The Work helpful. Before I investigated it, I thought it rather superficial, but it goes very deep. I mean, if one investigates any thought on any topic and continues long enough asking as you go "Is it true. Can you absolutely know that it's true", sooner or later this takes you out of thought. Not unlike neti neti.

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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by rachMiel » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:45 pm

tod wrote:
rachMiel wrote:
tod wrote:To me, that Boaz quote shows that trying to describe what you really are only engenders confusion. How's your neti neti practice going? You are what is at the end of that.
Thanks for asking, Tod. Neti neti neti! It's going well. Knowing what is *not* true comes quite naturally for me. And I have a feeling you're right ... unravel long/deep enough, and ... _______________ . :-)
I really like the _______________ :)

On a side note, I found Byron Katies The Work helpful. Before I investigated it, I thought it rather superficial, but it goes very deep. I mean, if one investigates any thought on any topic and continues long enough asking as you go "Is it true. Can you absolutely know that it's true", sooner or later this takes you out of thought. Not unlike neti neti.
Thanks for the tip. I've heard about Byron Katie a bunch in this forum, she comes highly recommended.
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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by tod » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:23 pm

rachMiel wrote:
tod wrote: On a side note, I found Byron Katies The Work helpful. Before I investigated it, I thought it rather superficial, but it goes very deep. I mean, if one investigates any thought on any topic and continues long enough asking as you go "Is it true. Can you absolutely know that it's true", sooner or later this takes you out of thought. Not unlike neti neti.
Thanks for the tip. I've heard about Byron Katie a bunch in this forum, she comes highly recommended.
There is not much to it, in your situation, just a continual quizzing of yourself, of what you take yourself to be, ie what you think you are, eg "I am xyz". "Is this true. Can I absolutely know that it's true". And of course you can't. Keep going until exhausted.

That's the 'recipe' :)

...and you cannot mis-make it (or mis-take it) as that would mean you have not finished making it. When you have finished making (up) the 'what I am' cake, what's left _______________

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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by rachMiel » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:57 am

This image came to me today while walking:

Imagine the world, you included, to be a projection on a movie screen. You look around and see what appear to be clearly defined, discrete, separate objects ... with no obvious connection between them. You feel that, too; limited to your body/mind, an island surrounded by other islands.

But, truth is, it's all light: you, everyone else, every other object, Everything.

(Substitute Consciousness for light; but you knew that already!)

This is not meant to be an "accurate" metaphor; just something that worked for me. (So, key master, please don't rip it apart. "Tread lightly on my dreams.")
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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by rachMiel » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:08 am

I guess the same goes for a dream. It might even be a better metaphor ...

For the duration of the dream you are utterly convinced that everything is real and that you are the subject surrounded by objects ... and when you wake up you realize it was all a manifestation of the mind of the dreamer. (Substitute Consciousness for mind.)
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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by SandyJoy » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:34 am

Yes, both of those work as excellent ways to describe "what is". I think this why some eastern religions call it a dream---they do not mean that this experience is not real, they mean that everything is 'of' the same mind---like a dream, we see someone 'over there' and in the dream he is 'Fred' but actually he is the same stuff that is the one seeing him over there, all dream -- The same stuff goes by many names, but it is really all from this same stuff (mind, dream, God, knowing, Life, Isness, story, fairytale, awareness, existence, Totality, Light, etc.) No matter what you call it, This is All One and there is no 'real' other---just the appearances, the seeming of other-ness.

There is only One Mind and Its Awareness-- This Is It-- this is the real and present fact of Awareness. Awareness is a fact; we know it; we are it; nothing is outside of it. Here, we discover the true Identity as the Awareness, we are the One unbound, unpossessed Mind, or Light, as you say, the Light of this Mind is Consciousness.

And this awareness is who you are---You are the Wholeness, the totality of all the images, of all you see. It all the same, just like you say---like a movie; the scene is not separate from the screen --and the awareness and the images of perception are all one Awareness.

Very well said Rach---I can't say it any better, but I wanted you to know you are on the right track there--now trust your self, trust your own heart's knowing and trust the glimmers of your true identity that Life gives you.

Thanks for sharing that one--- SandyJoy
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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by SandyJoy » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:52 am

Or as my favorite messenger put it:

"Look outside at the trees, the bees, the garden filled with new green leaves. Look across the way at the buildings and the people there. See the simple sparrow on the sidewalk; the soaring swallow in the sky. There is no value there either, no matter how much you believe otherwise. There is no power or importance there, even though common sense and individual intellect scream otherwise.

Where is the real value? Where is the power and importance? In the ISNESS, the Reality, God, which is being every object of perception—in the Isness being the Awareness that “sees" them!

We see that as long as we believe ourselves to be the misidentification who thinks it possesses Awareness, just that long do the intellect and common sense rebel at the statement that there is no value, power or importance in "things," or that things are nothing in and of themselves. But the Heart understands! In an instant the Heart accepts these totally irrational and illogical affronts to "common sense" to which the intellect would never submit. Isn't this so?"
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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by samadhi » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:27 pm

The real question here rachMeil is - are YOU real or are you a beautiful fairy tale? And if the latter is true, then a fairy tale told to who and by whom? ;)

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Re: Brahman: Real or (Beautiful) Fairy Tale?

Post by rachMiel » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:42 pm

SandyJoy wrote:"Look outside at the trees, the bees, the garden filled with new green leaves. Look across the way at the buildings and the people there. See the simple sparrow on the sidewalk; the soaring swallow in the sky. There is no value there either, no matter how much you believe otherwise. There is no power or importance there, even though common sense and individual intellect scream otherwise."
This reminds me a bit of what one of my favorite messengers once said to me when I was bemoaning the fact that, in this earthly realm, life eats life. (I feel sorrow when an ant dies; the reality of one beautiful creature killing/eating another is a toughie for me.)

Marge said to me that my problem was I was too attached to the ephemeral life forms: this ant, that sparrow, etc. That instead of seeing it as a series of individual sufferings/tragedies, one could see it as an ongoing flow of risings/fallings within the larger framework of ... existence/IS-ness/Consciousness.
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