Qualities of Enlightened People

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rideforever
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by rideforever » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:47 pm

Yes, keep going ...
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small

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Webwanderer
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:52 am

Who is going where? (Not a rhetorical question)

And is that 'yes' you are enlightened?

WW

spikyface
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by spikyface » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:10 am

They don't become more loving, caring, compassionate?
It is a perception shift

You no longer see yourself as a separate chunk from the rest of the universe
I am Jack's big toe

Instead you see yourself as a integrated part of the universe
Jack and the universe are part of the same body

Ask yourself this question, how would this affect how you interact with the world?
With your lover?
With your worst enemy?
With strangers?

All the qualities that arise afterwards are merely symptoms, the root cause is a change in perception
Understand that, and you will find the answer you seek

Are enlightened peoples thoughts more powerful at creating reality?
No, they don't tend to get in their own way as much however (less doubt, less internal conflict)
Not all enlightened people have the desire to change the world however, Tolle calls these people the frequency holders

Here's a excerpt from A New Earth which explains

"
“Others, after the natural expansion that comes with growing up has run its course, lead an outwardly unremarkable, seemingly more passive and relatively uneventful existence. They are more inward looking by nature, and for them the outward movement into form is minimal. They would rather return home than go out.

“Some of them find it hard to fit into this world. Some are lucky enough to find a protective niche where they can lead a relatively sheltered life, a job that provides them with a regular income or a small business of their own.

“In past ages, they would probably have been called contemplatives. There is no place for them, it seems, in our contemporary civilization. On the arising new earth, however, their role is just as vital as that of the creators, the doers, the reformers. Their function is to anchor the frequency of the new consciousness on the planet. I call them frequency-holders. They are here to generate consciousness through the activities of daily life, through their interactions as well as through ‘just being.’

“In this way, they endow the seemingly insignificant with profound meaning. Their task is to bring spacious stillness into this world by being absolutely present in whatever they do. There is consciousness and therefore quality in what they do, even the simplest task. Their purpose is to do everything in a sacred manner. As each human being is an integral part of the collective human consciousness, they affect the world much more deeply than is visible on the surface of their lives.”
"

Hope that helps
Do not take anyone as an authority on what you are. Ultimately all the answers lie within

Yutso
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by Yutso » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:25 am

Compassion is inseparable from enlightenment as is wetness from water.

Sharing
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by Sharing » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:44 am

spikyface

That was such a beautiful reply. I never realized saving the world was my "trip". Does that mean I'm enlightened? lol

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rideforever
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by rideforever » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:58 am

Yutso wrote:Compassion is inseparable from enlightenment as is wetness from water.
Such assumptions have kept people from the taste of the truth for hundreds of thousands of years. And the greatest barrier to penetration is the feeling that you have to be 'good'.

Don't bring any assumptions, they are all anchors, they are the past, let go of them all.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small

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rideforever
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by rideforever » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:38 pm

Webwanderer wrote:Are you enlightened?
Concepts and judgements are the mind moving. No matter what the judgement the mind will be satisfied, that is how it functions.

It feels satisfied and justified, meaning that it feeds off you and maintains it's relationship to you ... as your master.

Can you see the satisfaction your mind is getting from these things in asking this question ?

Can you see this movement within you ?
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small

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Webwanderer
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:00 pm

rideforever wrote:Yes, there is only one quality. [of enlightenment]

That you don't exist.
You commented authoritatively on enlightenment. Just wondering how you came to such presumed knowledge.


'Can you see the satisfaction your mind is getting from these things in making this statement?

Can you see this movement within you?'


WW

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treasuretheday
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by treasuretheday » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:04 pm

rideforever wrote:the greatest barrier to penetration is the feeling that you have to be 'good'.
But if barriers fall away, & goodness, our True Nature, is simply revealed, a feeling has nothing to do with it. It just is.
I agree that not everyone is called to manifest this nature in the same way, but the goodness flows through whatever one is engaged in.
Goodness is not a state of being one has to work toward, any more than happiness is. It already exists within. We don't have to chase after it.

Sometimes it seems some people are working overtime to build barriers that obscure their goodness. Maybe being in touch with that quality triggers feelings of vulnerability.
Life itself is the proper binge.
-Julia Child

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rideforever
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by rideforever » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:37 pm

I think I see what you mean ... like if you remind somebody of something good then they feel their vulnerability and can be in touch with the inside. Yeah, for sure.

I was looking at a different angle, which is that for instance the people in the Church are very busy trying to be "good" and it totally obscures their penetration into the divine. They want it so much that they follow rules; but if God is in you then you have no need of following rules, you just drop everything and it is revealed.

But if you have a preconception of what will be there, then you do not drop everything.

It's like when people say "just be yourself". You hear this a lot. The problem is that when somebody says that to you they are actually thinking :

"just be yourself [like a good upstanding citizen]"
"just be yourself [like the president]"

... actually people are very afraid of being themselves. Because you don't know what will happen when you really let go ... and everyone knows "we are supposed to be good" ... so it's like you have to keep checking yourself to make sure you are good.

But ... hopefully the day will come when one realises that there is nothing further to be gained from following rules, and that you either trust or you don't. And then you just drop everything, even any ideas of being good or whatever. You let it all go into the hands of whatever will come.

And whatever will be, will be.

People often wait till the end of their life to do this, when they finally see that there is nothing more to be gained by holding on. But, it is possible to see that right now too.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small

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rideforever
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by rideforever » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:39 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
'Can you see the satisfaction your mind is getting from these things in making this statement?

Can you see this movement within you?'


WW
Are you able to trust me enough to open your defensiveness ?

Am I trustworthy enough ?
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small

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Webwanderer
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:29 pm

rideforever wrote:Are you able to trust me enough to open your defensiveness ?
Do I trust someone over the internet that to me has some obvious misperceptions of life? Someone who claims to know something of enlightenment but avoids any attempt at offering more clarity.

Thanks for the offer, but I prefer to trust my own inner guidance. Therein I'm sure of a vested interest in my greater well being.

We all have misperceptions, and it's no crime. The theme of this thread is about qualities of enlightened people. You made declarative statements as if you knew something of a lone specific quality - "there is only one quality. That you don't exist."

I've asked how you came to this and you've chosen to attack me with innuendos of my being defensive rather than to explore and outline your own understanding. You could have offered any number of clarifying answers, such as: A definition of enlightenment that puts your answer in an understandable context, an explanation of what 'you don't exist' means in the context you meant it, or that you are actually enlightened and can explain what your enlightened perspective is like.

If answering makes you uncomfortable, just move on. There is no need to attack someone who is simply looking for the depth in your comments.

WW

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rideforever
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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by rideforever » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:41 pm

Yes, so you don't trust me ... but still you want to engage in "asking questions".

Why ? If there is no trust nothing can be gained ... or can there ?

Well the reason is that it's good food for your mind.

As you don't trust me there is no possibility of you 'opening up', and so the mind feels very safe. It can feed off the judgements in total security that it will not be found out.

Otherwise you wouldn't ask me anything.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small

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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:37 pm

rideforever wrote:As you don't trust me there is no possibility of you 'opening up', and so the mind feels very safe. It can feed off the judgements in total security that it will not be found out.
So you want people to trust you, apparently over their own insight, but you don't want to be forthcoming in a dialog. That sounds like you want to program your listener with the 'truth', your truth, without having to offer any depth of its origin or any context for clarity. Have you ever considered that there may be more here than meets your eye?

"There is no you". That's a common refrain that begs deeper consideration than most internet gurus who make it are willing to offer. There may even be some truth to it in a clearly understood context. But most internet gurus that opine that phrase don't offer any context. That's what happened here. 'If you are enlightened, there is no you'. 'Trust me'.

WW

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Re: Qualities of Enlightened People

Post by smiileyjen101 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:05 pm

Authenticity requires vulnerability, and with 'enlightened' awareness there is re-cognition that what others 'see' or 'feel' may be of a different perspective - a different place from which, and through which, one is viewing a 'thing', often as a mirror unto itself.

Trust is - how far will you let me be authentic before you will harden against me?

How vulnerable am I able to be before it makes you uncomfortable in your own reflection of me.

Will you want to clothe my nakedness, take away my struggles, ease my baseless fears, take me to the destination of my journey - rather than have me experience and express them.

Rideforever has hit on something important, (imho)

What one does not 'trust' in themself, they fear in another.
What one does not trust in another, they fear in themself.

Through fear comes judgement.
Through judgement comes separation.
Through separation one 'blames' self or other for that which 'is' expressing or experiencing, creating discomfort.

I like that you've gone beyond the 'sermons' rideforever.
Can you 'trust' and not separate from
those on the journey of religious fervour, even those who are expressing and experiencing hypocrisy and judgment,
those on the journey of scientific exploration, even those blinding them self and others to the wider truths with blindfolds of distrust
those who work from their own 'handbook' of journeying, following their own steps, in their own time.

Only those who want to be seen to be 'good' (or any element of measure), overlay that as an unspoken condition upon others and separate it from 'bad' or whatever is at the other end of the spectrum of their separating.

One cannot have what one considers 'good' and not have what one considers 'bad' for the first would not be anything without the second.

That's kind of the futility of judgement. The greater energy one gives to one end of the spectrum, the greater energy is focused on all elements of the spectrum holistically. Equilibrium will rebalance its parts as a whole.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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