What the Bleep Do We Know

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a_friend
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What the Bleep Do We Know

Post by a_friend » Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:22 pm

This isn't a book, its a movie, and it just came out on dvd. Most of the movie consists of interviews with physicists, doctors, theologians, shrinks, and new-agey teachers. But there's also a story going on at the same time. Anyway, its all about how science is discovering that there really is (observable) truth in all these spiritual teachings and stuff. Being interested in the sciences, I found this all very interesting. There wasn't much there that teaches you *how* to go about evolving spiritually though, so i was a little disappointed in the movie. But if you're into the really crazy stuff that science is discovering, then I think you'll like this. Check out http://www.whatthebleep.com

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Post by summer » Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:49 pm

Hi friend,
it is good to see you posting again. I have missed you :)

I thoroughly enjoyed that movie. They took a subject that is very difficult to talk about, and did a great job of making some of these far out ideas accessible to everyone.

One of the parts that really struck me, was the actual physical effects on our brains of our old past conditioning. No wonder we fall so easily into action/reaction mode.

And that the only way to reprogram these unhealthy automatic responses, is being fully present in the moment. Presence has a healing power :)

The movie gave scientific validation to the metaphysical concepts presented in Power of Now, and other great teachings.

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Post by a_friend » Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:23 pm

Thank you summer, how sweet of you! Yeah, I've kinda been in hiding for a while, but now i'm back. It seems the activity here has been picking up -- which I think is a good thing in spite of everything you guys say about Stillness ;) Oh, and I'm doing my best to capitalize the "I"s and use correct grammar and whatnot, hehehe.

Yeah, along the lines of past conditioning, I really liked what they had to say about addiction. Addiction to emotion is really no different to addiction to drugs. And addiction is what keeps bringing back crappy old familiar situations in our lives over and over again. And it keeps us from going on to becoming what we want to be and creating the situations we want in our lives.

So, this might be off topic, but I keep seeing two seemingly conflicting themes in all the spiritual teachings. On the one hand, there's ET and others who say the Way to peace/joy/love/etc. is Acceptance, saying "yes" to what is, non-judgement, and all that kind of stuff. On the other hand, there's Wayne Dyer, the teachers from "what the bleep", and others who say that you Create or Intend or Visualize your reality, that you can create good situations in your life. And therefore you can create your happiness, peace, whatever.

Are these teachings conflicting? They certainly seem so to me, but maybe I don't have a strong enough understanding of either of them to see that they are really the same teaching. What do you guys think? I've gotta say, the idea that if I simply visualize long enough and hard enough that I'll get what I want is Very tempting when I'm trying sit down and meditate and accept all the pain and suffering in the world without judgement. Then again, saying yes to what is has absolutely without a doubt increased the peace in my life, and broken my addiction to stress and done all this other great stuff for me. I don't know, maybe I'm just thinking too much.

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Visualization Verses PON/nondualism

Post by kiki » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:29 am

Hi friend,

In regard to visualization and those who teach/advise it: There is nothing wrong with this, and indeed, your life situation may improve. However, these techniques will not reveal what you actually are, will not give freedom.

Tolle and others who are teaching nondualism do point you to what you really are - simple, pure, nonchanging awareness; what's always here and unbounded by time and space.

Think of it this way - when you know directly what you really and truly are you escape the prison of the limiting beliefs that had been held onto - you are free and no longer bound by beliefs of any kind. On the other hand, if you are simply good at visualization you can change a negative life situation into a more positive life situation. In other words, you remain in prison, though the prison is much more comfortable.

Wake up first to what you really are and then see if there is a need/desire to use these other techniques.

kiki

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Post by a_friend » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:48 am

Yep, just as I suspected. For someone who is already free, creation/intention/visualization is great. They will put themselves into exactly the situations they would like to be in, and probably will use "creativity" to truly better themselves and the world. On the other hand, i think its definitely possible for someone who is "bound" (to ego or the world or whatever) to get very good at "creating", and at the same time have no idea why they are creating what they do. The world is full of stories of the self-made guy who clawed his way to the top. Then he gets to the top and he says, "Alright, now what? Why did I want to do that anyway?" People may even use the "power of intention" to bring about great destruction and harm to themselves or the world around. I'll stick with awareness for now, and limit my visualizations to getting the house clean and the lawn mowed ;)

Thank you for your response, kiki.

a friend

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Post by summer » Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:17 am

The "I create my own reality" theme is a very popular one. And teachers such as Deepak Chopra seem to include waking up as one of the things that we can create.

And yet this does seem very different from what Eckhart is saying. Surrendering to what is, almost sounds like the opposite. As if Eckhart is at peace no matter where he is, or what is happening around him.
And he speaks often about suffering being a wonderful teacher.
Almost as if the times when it seems like your whole life is falling apart are when you are closest to the truth.

As if waking up is more a process of losing what you identify with. Not gaining more, and surrounding yourself with an ideal life situation.

What do you think kiki? Do we create our reality?

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Post by kiki » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:10 am

Hi summer,

'What do you think kiki? Do we create our reality?'

Awareness creates and is the source of everything. One of the things that arises out of awareness is ego/mind, which is what begins the perceived separation from everything else. This ficticious entity has become conditioned into believing in its separateness and has the prime motive of sustaining itself through what it accepts into its identity and what it rejects as threatening or unworthy.

The ego/mind has thus created a dualistic world. Without knowing it, ego/mind has become the author of how its existence is played out in relationship to 'others' that it perceives. As long as ego/mind is identified with, it is at the mercy of its programmed conditioning to others. It can create its own beliefs or accept those of others, and thus seemingly affect how life is experienced. The 'drama' of life is taken personally because of the creation of a personal identity, which is tenaciously clung to.

All the while this is happening, You/awareness are witnessing it all. Nothing that 'happens' can change or threaten You one whit. However, as long as identification with ego/mind remains intact life can be experienced from one extreme to the other and everything in between.

Once identification is broken and one rests in awareness as awareness, what 'happens' in the world is simply seen as a play. It is directly known that there is no personal me doing anything, that all is unfolding within nonpersonal awareness/You.

Keep in mind that ego/mind is not an enemy. It is comprised of awareness, but is limited because it is bound to the dualistic world - it is a modification of unbounded awareness. Anything within manifestation is limited and has a beginning and an end. You/awareness, however, are unmanifest and are by definition unlimited, unbound, and eternal.

So in a sense, 'we' create our own reality as long as we are identified with ego/mind. When that identification is dropped, it is seen that there is no longer any personal self which can do anything. It is realized that there never was nor ever will be a personal self. This being true, there is no 'me' that can create 'awakening.' All there can be is the recognition of this absence of 'me', the falseness of the personal sense of self. This recognition (by nobody in 'particular', but by awareness itself) has been referred to as 'awakening.' With this recognition comes the recognition that all there is is awareness, and that's what you are.

kiki

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Post by a_friend » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:16 am

Wow, that was awesome. Thank you, thank you. Then again, I'm slightly drunk, hehehe ;) Either way, don't let it get to you -- just keep posting these excellent responses, kiki.

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Post by heidi » Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:44 pm

Hi - I have been finding that acceptance or "surrender" is actually what allows the all-fulfilling universe to fulfill :) This is where Tolle's teachings and the create your own reality school come together. The more we are saying yes to what is, the more room there is for the universe to fulfill us. If we are pushing against it, (saying I don't have enough, or I need, or I'm going to force my will upon something...) well then, even the love, joy and abundance doesn't have much of a crack to seep into. It's the idea that, if we can get out of our own way, then that wonderful reality can be created for us. The idea of morphogenetics (manifesting from thought to matter) really does take place, but there needs to be a clarity, and openness, in order for that to happen.
Last edited by heidi on Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by summer » Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:17 pm

Thanks for the wonderful answers everyone.
It sounds like we have another paradox here :) And not the either/or logic of reason. Rather, a both/and answer to a question.

In one sense I create reality, when I know myself as Pure Awareness.
Meanwhile by surrendering the false notion of being a separate entity in the mind, I am aligned with the Isness that exists everywhere. And life flows smoothly.

Kiki, you certainly have a wonderful way of speaking :)
I really enjoy your posts, and read them many times.
Thank you, dear one.

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Post by heidi » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:52 pm

Well, I finally saw What the Bleep just last night. Quite synchronistic for me as it just seems to be fitting in with everything else that's coming my way lately. Little miracles everywhere :)

I would have liked the story and the character(s) to have been "fleshed out" a little, since all of the narration by "experts" made it almost preachy. The point of a story, he he, is often made stronger by less telling and more showing. But, all in all, the message needs to get out, and I'm sure this is only the beginning. I am writing a novel for middle readers, and the idea of nowness and parallel time - nows - is an underlying theme. Also the concept of We can appear to become what we think, although we really are all one underneath. So, it was very cool to see this movie, and validate a lot of stuff.
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Post by barbarasher » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:26 pm

Congrats on your 100th post! :P

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Post by erict » Thu May 12, 2005 11:25 am

a_friend wrote:I keep seeing two seemingly conflicting themes in all the spiritual teachings. On the one hand, there's ET and others who say the Way to peace/joy/love/etc. is Acceptance, saying "yes" to what is, non-judgement, and all that kind of stuff. On the other hand, there's Wayne Dyer, the teachers from "what the bleep", and others who say that you Create or Intend or Visualize your reality, that you can create good situations in your life. And therefore you can create your happiness, peace, whatever.

Are these teachings conflicting? They certainly seem so to me, but maybe I don't have a strong enough understanding of either of them to see that they are really the same teaching. What do you guys think?

Yes, you do not have a deep enough understanding of the teachings. They do not contradict each other in any way whatsoever.

You Create Your Own Reality (YCYOR)

Maybe something people fail to realize about this teaching is that it is not something that you can do. It is something you are always doing. The thing is that you are creating your own reality unconsciously, by default, without quite realizing what you are doing and how it all works. But every single moment of your life you are emitting energy (actions, thoughts, words, emotions... your very state of being) that affects your life situation and your experience of life itself.

The Power of Now

A lot of people seem to totally misinterpert many of Tolle's teachings. When Tolle says "accept what is" people hear "give up all desires and goals, stop taking initiative and live life like a vegetable". Just read his own words:

"To some people, surrender may have negative connotations, implying defeat, giving up, failing to rise to the challenges of life, becoming lethargic, and so on. True surrender, however, is something entirely different. It does not mean to passively put up with whatever situation you find yourself in and to do nothing about it. Nor does it mean to cease making plans or initiating positive action."

So as long as you have goals and you take action in your life don't you think it would be wise to consider the laws of the universe regarding the issue of the manifestation of reality?

Do you desire nothing in your life, do you have no goals, take no action? Some people think that this is what Tolle teaches, though he does not. But even if so... even if you chose to give up all goals and desires and take no action, how does YCYOR contradict that choice? YCYOR doesn't say you need to create anything, it simply explains how the universe works. It speaks of universal laws that exist whether you are aware of them or not. Where is the contradiction?

It is kind of like saying that there is a contradiction between the laws of aerodynamics and a theory that says that flying isn't the best way to get someplace. But that isn't exactly accurate because Eckhart Tolle says nothing against making plans, setting goals, wanting things, and taking action. In my understanding, what he says isn't that we should give up the future, want nothing and take no action. What he does say is something else. It is not these things that must change or disappear from our lives, it is our relationship to these things that should change. Set goals, work towards them, create things in your life and enjoy them. But stop seeking your self in them, stop seeking fulfilment and peace in them! End your compulsive need for the next moment and the next thing, but do not give them up entirely.

"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."

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Post by quitesane » Thu May 12, 2005 12:55 pm

I watched What The Bleep Do We Know!? last night. It was very encouraging and utterly enjoyable! It shows that science is finally catching up to mysticism - huzzah! The movie scored many "direct hits" to the truth of what is and only missed on a couple of points. The best movie I've seen since The Incredibles.

If you like the theme of What The Bleep Do We Know!?, you may want to read A Course In Consciousness. You can download it here at no charge: http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness. It is an exceptional piece of work.
Patrick

"Whatever works." - Tolle

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Post by a_friend » Thu May 12, 2005 5:40 pm

erict wrote:In my understanding, what he says isn't that we should give up the future, want nothing and take no action. What he does say is something else. It is not these things that must change or disappear from our lives, it is our relationship to these things that should change. Set goals, work towards them, create things in your life and enjoy them. But stop seeking your self in them, stop seeking fulfilment and peace in them! End your compulsive need for the next moment and the next thing, but do not give them up entirely.
Thank you eric. It was this last piece that cleared things up for me a bit. I understand that PON says we don't need to stop making plans, but we do need to stop seeking ourselves in them. But I don't know anyone personally who has been able to pull this off. So I guess I still assume the "intention" crowd are sitting around seeking themselves amongst all their intentions. But this isn't necessarily so. In fact, I think Dyer says in his most recent book something like you take time to plan, and see yourself achieving and all that stuff, and then you just let it go and you don't sit around stressing about it.

I guess for me, personally, the emphasis on "accepting what is" has been much more powerful than the "intention" kinds of messages. Even if they do not contradict each other, I know my personal application of these two messages has been contradictory. I haven't learned the art of intending without anxiety. On the other hand, I feel like I have made some headway into the "saying yes" business. And of course, in the meantime, I've been creating my own reality along the way.

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