opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums
Post Reply
heretoask
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 7:56 pm

opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by heretoask » Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm

Hello everyone,

These are some questions that have been bugging me for some time and I'd like to ask you all.

I love the message Eckhart Tolle conveys. I understood it right fro the start since I felt it easier to access in the way that he taught it rather than the old methods and language of the tibetans and various other cultures and beliefs (please excuse my ignorance to religion and cultural beliefs).

BUT..

Since discovering Tolle right at the beginning, I have found his teaching, delivery, audience selection and motivation to now confuse me. I used to understand his 'stop thinking so much and just be' concept easily. Then, he wrote 50 new books, as many cd's and has had a hand full of retreats and lectures as well as a website that has new teaser content on it and now I am confused again.

What I mean is that the message is so simple. Quieten your mind, observe thought, do not engage with every thought, feel life flow through you rather than searching for it, and just exist rather than forcing life to happen the way we want it to.

So, why does 50 books and 100 cd's need to be manufactured to explain this?

If we are not to think so much, then why present us with an overwhelming amount of content?

Why not stop at the first book and just let us absorb that content in our lives until it makes sense to us one day.

I wrote to Tolle and got a reply from his PA. I asked these questions:

Why does Tolle write so much when he only has one message?
Why does it cost the same as a regular book to buy when he needs to be a mentor to everyone, not just medium to high income earners?
Why does it cost a lot of money to view videos on his website?
Since he is a million maybe multimillionaire, why does it cost anything at all to get access to his wisdom?
Why is he doing a retreat in Italy next month when I haven't been able to get on one of the retreats due to the extreme cost as well as him not holding retreats in his own city?
Why does he state in his book that he was enlightened over-night and then tries to teach us to be enlightened over time with 500 different reading materials?
Do you think his enlightenment was just a fluke since he didn't have to read 500 books to fall asleep that night and wake up changed?
Do you think he is being a little ignorant and condescending teaching people that he can go from being totally depressed to happy as larry overnight?

The reply I got was a summary to all of these questions that read:
Eckhart Tolle has free content on his website. You can log in and see it free.

.. and that was pretty much it.
lolz.

So I made up my own answers to these questions and I would like to hear yours too.
My answers revolve around him being a little greedy and mislead by the ego and the opportunity to make stacks of cash rather than holding free clinics, create a free centre people can go to listen to him or to be taught new ideas, free videos, free content in general, free teachings to at risk people that surround him in vancouver that he obviously ignores living a cushy life out in the UBC area by the forest in a massive house....

What do you think ? (opinions about Eckhart Tolle not me would be appreciated.)

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6721
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by Webwanderer » Tue May 21, 2013 10:17 pm

heretoask wrote:So I made up my own answers to these questions and I would like to hear yours too
So, why does 50 books and 100 cd's need to be manufactured to explain this?
Don't over think this. What Tolle does or doesn't do has no bearing on your life experience - unless you make it an issue. Everyone makes their own way in their own way. Tolle may be all the things that you fear, yet if any of his words and pointers inspire you to greater clarity of being, you have profited in life experience far more than all the money he could ever make.

Tolle's message is not the end of your life, nor of his. If anything, gaining real clarity on your true nature is a new beginning to a life of freedom and joy. Tolle's '50 books and 100 cd's' are not about what Tolle needs. It's about what he wants. There is nothing wrong in desire. It is the foundation of creativity and exploring experience. It's no one else's business how we conduct our lives unless it is conduct that forces itself upon others.

Tolle's message is a wonderful gift to all who comprehend it. If there are things that concern you, stop looking at them and return to that which you find valuable. Why let those matters that concern you take away from the gains you have made. There is nothing you can do about it anyway, so why be unnecessarily troubled? Where is the focus of your attention, and how does it serve you?

WW

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4561
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by kiki » Tue May 21, 2013 11:00 pm

If you are receptive and open to his message all it might take is one thing, perhaps just one statement that gets through to you and that's enough. Lots of people, however, are playing the "awakening game" by feeling a need for more - more books to read, more talks to listen to, more seminars to attend, and they get stuck in seeking mode. Essentially, he is saying the same thing in all his books, talks, and seminars (though how he states things is constantly evolving) so it isn't necessary to seek out more from him. And no one is obligated to read anything new that comes out, so take from him what you can with what you've already read and listened to and leave behind all the questions about why he continues to write and talk. That's none of your concern really. Isn't it more to your benefit to be focused on your own presence rather than all of this extraneous stuff that's filling up your thinking?
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---

User avatar
rideforever
Posts: 1513
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Hove

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by rideforever » Tue May 21, 2013 11:25 pm

Well heretoask, in my opinion your questions are right on the money.

You strength to question Tolle and what he is doing are very valuable aspects of you. They are an expression of your wanting to know what is real and what is true.

It is you.

There is no-one else on your journey except you. It is for you to discover this vastness in your own way, using the fire inside you. If standing in front of a teacher is a way for you to grow, do that. If standing in front of a tree is a way to grow, do that. It is you who is teaching yourself, always.

A good master is easy to find, a good student very rare.

My view on Eckhart Tolle is that he is a good man. And he had touched deeply inside existence. There is a great need for a teacher like him. He is a fine place to start perhaps.

But, there have been other teachers who have been so filled with Light that their song rang with the force and colours of a Niagara.

You have only to see Osho standing in front of thousands of sannyasins in a blissful ecstatic dance, to see that awakening can be a soaring eagle. Or to see Shiva meditating in front of the white tooth of Mount Kailash, to feel the power of the Truth.

If you have seen the stars in the vast sky, you are that.
If you have heard the cry of the eagle, you are that.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small

ihavemorethanenough
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:46 pm

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by ihavemorethanenough » Wed May 22, 2013 12:07 am

heretoask wrote:Hello everyone,

These are some questions that have been bugging me for some time and I'd like to ask you all.

What do you think ? (opinions about Eckhart Tolle not me would be appreciated.)

Hello

"why does 50 books and 100 cd's need to be manufactured to explain this?"

If "they need to be manufactured to explain this", there must be some need.

However many books and CD's that "came through him" (wait what)...

If I were to start reading his first, and move on to the next,
and so on until his last, without ceasing,
I would probably put down the book at some point
upon seeing the same message appear before me
again, and again

But Tolle has a few instructions for the reader of his book
for the way to read it, and some teachings
for how to deal with curiosity
Don't follow them, and the writing will lose its power
read a few lines now, and a few lines later,
and it will have served its purpuse

Time spent "holding it more than reading it" you will only need his one book
Time spent reading from cover to cover, you'll probably end up
buying all his books, spending all your money
and wanting more

...so the writings come through him, and he has to move out of the way
and if a thought appears to him and says "you've said this already"
he knows what to do with it
but if he sits down and writes, without thought
then that's a new book

I'm listening to Eckhart Tolle's Music to quiet the Mind CD...

"Why does it cost the same as a regular book to buy when he needs to be a mentor to everyone, not just medium to high income earners?"

from outside, "A NEW EARTH, CREATE A BETTER LIFE" is as big as a regular book, but when you open it, there's a lot of space inside, not there in other regular books.

"Why not stop at the first book and just let us absorb that content in our lives until it makes sense to us one day."

I know he says on "stillness speaks", some listeners will only need the first chapter,
but some others might need to hear the rest too
"some others" he's probably looking at you and me
and then he has to say enough to fill a cd, lest nobody buys it

but I like the question and part "let us absorb that content first",
because that's up to you and me

as Brian Regan says on reading, "I'm trying to learn how to read better, you know. I took a speed reading course, and not to brag but my speed shot up to forty three pages a minute,
but my comprehension plummeted"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou4yaF-gACs

"Why does he state in his book that he was enlightened over-night and then tries to teach us to be enlightened over time with 500 different reading materials?"
and "Do you think his enlightenment was just a fluke since he didn't have to read 500 books to fall asleep that night and wake up changed?"

He says that because people space out sometimes and live to tell about it
Tolle wasn't enlightened over-night, but it took him 29 years (I think, or if it wasn't then, then the age he was at when it 'happened')
But that sentence, that it happened over-night, misled, either because it's not 'it', but only points to a part of the truth, and not the whole truth

"Do you think he is being a little ignorant and condescending teaching people that he can go from being totally depressed to happy as larry overnight?"

maybe, but i don't know, maybe he was exited and thought he was born there and then when 'it happened'

kutto
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:11 am
Location: Wollongong

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by kutto » Mon May 27, 2013 4:41 am

Hi heretoask,

I would comment that after reading A New Earth and looking to Tolle further I has a similar reaction to your own - A bit too much corporate polish around the main Tolle website for me and a bit too much to be paid to access more online material - to me it detracts from the message and seems a bit much - but I can stand back (just enough) to realise this is my reaction based on my own biases and insecurities and predjudices. I have a reaction to over corporatisation of anything because I am extremely sensitive to anything that suggests (by me, to me) depersonalisation and also saying one thing but with another motive as corporatisation can be seen to be. It is neither right, wrong, good or bad - it does not feel neutral because it resonates with something in you - this is not a criticism - merely an opportunity to reflect on how you can learn from your reaction.

I am very grateful to Tolle for the notion of the Painbody which has and is moving me forward and to the many generous people who use this site and have passed on things to me. What has lead me further still are the books and teachings of Barry Long (from another post on this site) which I find very direct and simple. (There is a fair bit of Barry Long on YouTube as an intro - 'How to Stop Thinking' is great and I am reading several of his books) Tolle was inspired by Barry Long and as with all spiritual matters the themes are simple and constant over time. The presentation varies and as with anything you will connect with some people well and others less well - In particular some messages will resonate strongly at times and later the same material will reveal other insights as you move to a different place.

Also don't confuse simple with easy. It is not easy to change our conditioning and most of us carry a lot of pain that has to be confronted as part of this - for me 'not thinking' is causing it to arise and it is not easy to confront. Personally I found Barry Longs description of how to deal with this easier to understand than Tolles even though it is essentially the same - The words just made more sense to me. By the way I don't 'not think' - But by trying to not think as much as possible I have realised more clearly what is driving the thinking and it puts more distance between 'me' the observer and 'me' the thinker. it is easier to recognise the thoughts as ultimately separate from you - it is not easy though.

As someone else said - Don't try and overthink this -there are no right answers and for what it is worth for the most part I agree with your arguments - but what is that worth?

I would treat the whole thing as a lesson on reflection - all reactions are a reflection of what you carry - and that is no criticism - just an opportunity to reflect.

Cheers,

Simon

heretoask
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 7:56 pm

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by heretoask » Mon May 27, 2013 8:54 am

Thank you all for your comments.

I understand what you are saying and I do agree with most of it and would argue nicely the other percentage.

I guess I have always been a bit of an idealist and I know for a concrete fact that if life had given me the gift of entertaining the world and making millons of dollars in my craft like mr. tolle I would be quite happy to be the first person in the history of the modern world to give everything up to help the lowest income earners, the unhealthiest hospital patients, the most egotistical and aggressive kids that had no real start from their helpless parents right through to funding a solution to end poverty and lack of basic needs.

I once asked an english girl if she liked her queen. She said she did and I asked why. she said she wasn't sure but she has been an ok queen and done a few good things.
when she asked me why i asked her that i replied,

I would never trust or glorify someone, queen or not, that is that rich, that powerful and that influential and has NOT found a solution to their own cities basic negatives such as homelessness, free top notch education or basic and affordable health for all. If someone that rules the worlds greatest empire can not find a solution to help out a few million people survive the day then they have not gained from me.

i see eckhart tolle as a bit of a queen. A ginger german canadian queen but one all the same. I see him making the same mistakes as every powerful person before him and it confuses me as to why they can't be more heroic.

I do like eckhart and his message. I do practice his ideas and they help me. i have come a long way. i can accept this as it is and i do not need more from him or anyone. I am my best teacher and i know this. I just think he missed his golden opportunity to be a real hero and that is ALL i am saying. All the REAL leaders got assassinated or bashed by police. I am white but omg do i wish a 'King' had been able to take the place of the Queen. if you know what i mean.

User avatar
matt74ike
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:33 am
Location: Poland

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by matt74ike » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:34 am

heretoask wrote: What I mean is that the message is so simple. Quieten your mind, observe thought, do not engage with every thought, feel life flow through you rather than searching for it, and just exist rather than forcing life to happen the way we want it to.
So, why does 50 books and 100 cd's need to be manufactured to explain this?
ET publishes all these materials because his books and all other spiritual books tends to jump from non-fiction to fiction :) Let me explain this strange statement. In English language books are divided into two main categories: fiction and non-fiction, and I think "fiction" word is misleading, It's not about fiction, it's about fun. We read "fiction" for fun.
On the beginning of spiritual path we are in the learning process, we gather information from these books. After some time, we know what is the message, but that doesn't stop us from reading spiritual books. We start to treat them as "fiction" (much better word is belles-lettres, which mean beautiful literature) and read them just for fun.

Btw. Eckhart mentions in his talks that he still read books of other authors. He seems to be the last person who would need them.
Maciej
We know about ourselves
only what we've been tested
[Wislawa Szymborska, poet]

Typist
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:23 am

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by Typist » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:04 pm

I think what you're seeing with the ever expanding Tolle publishing empire is the Peter Principle at work. A reminder of that principle from Wikipedia.
The Peter Principle is a proposition that states that the members of an organization where promotion is based on achievement, success, and merit, will eventually be promoted beyond their level of ability. The principle is commonly phrased, "Employees tend to rise to their level of incompetence."
Tolle is clearly a quite talented writer and speaker, and deserves credit for his accomplishments in this area.

It's not as easy as it looks. I just came from a Christian forum where I attempted to share a basic introduction to these topics, and even though I typed at least a couple hundred posts with great earnestness and at least a little bit of skill, and I'm not sure any of the readers really had a clue what I was talking about or why I'm interested in this. Take your best post from this forum and post it somewhere where everybody doesn't already know what you're trying to say, and you'll see what I mean.

So while Tolle is clearly a gifted communicator, that doesn't automatically equal him being gifted about other things. Nobody is good at everything, and most of us are lucky to be good at anything.

It looks to me that Tolle's been sucked head long in to the fame and money game. Oh well, that could happen to any of us in the right circumstances. If it's anybody's fault, it ours for too often trying to make him in to something more than just a good writer.

You know, once I read a conversation among some people who were excited that Tolle was (according to them) allowing people to touch his clothes for a fee. I don't know if that was true or not, but the point is, these followers were hoping it was true, wished it was true.

I see some posters above perhaps hoping to deflect criticism of Tolle under the cover of spiritual advice. I believe this is a misguided, if well intentioned, approach.

We'd be doing Tolle a personal favor to regard him as we would any other poster of this forum. Just like us, sometimes he's smart, and sometimes he's stupid, sometimes he's right, and sometimes not. Somebody invite him here, so we can pore a beer on his head, give him a hug, and then tell him why he's wrong, Wrong, WRONG in the true spirit of the forum experience.
If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.

User avatar
Chippy
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:40 pm
Location: South Africa

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by Chippy » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:58 am

Yeah I don't think it's anything so complicated as the above mentioned. It's probably more like, there are so many books (btw all pointing to the same thing) because people have SO MANY QUESTIONS
THIS TOO SHALL PASS

eyogateacher
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:54 pm
Location: Chennai ,India

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by eyogateacher » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:07 am

I wrote to Tolle and got a reply from his PA. I asked these questions:

Why does Tolle write so much when he only has one message?
Why does it cost the same as a regular book to buy when he needs to be a mentor to everyone, not just medium to high income earners?
Why does it cost a lot of money to view videos on his website?
Since he is a million maybe multimillionaire, why does it cost anything at all to get access to his wisdom?
Why is he doing a retreat in Italy next month when I haven't been able to get on one of the retreats due to the extreme cost as well as him not holding retreats in his own city?
Why does he state in his book that he was enlightened over-night and then tries to teach us to be enlightened over time with 500 different reading materials?
Do you think his enlightenment was just a fluke since he didn't have to read 500 books to fall asleep that night and wake up changed?
Do you think he is being a little ignorant and condescending teaching people that he can go from being totally depressed to happy as larry overnight?
If the above questions were asked to Ramana Maharshi he would have given a simple one line answer like below :
enquire to whom the above questions arise ? :D

User avatar
Onceler
Posts: 2257
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:35 am
Location: My house

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by Onceler » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:43 pm

I happen to agree with you, heretoask, and especially like the "queen" analogy. I have often asked the same question of ultra wealthy people, why don't they use their money for good? At the very least, I think that Tolle should make his material available for free/donation like John Sherman and many others.

I think you are right on the money when you say a simple message should be kept simple.....
Be present, be pleasant.

Matt123
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:21 am

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by Matt123 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:00 am

In my humble opinion, why does it matter to anyone what he does or doesnt? Initially I read everyone including Ramana, Nisagaradatta et al. I realized I was just getting too information but none it was helping. I need one weapon to get to my first target.."Stillness". So now all I am doing is reading up bits and pieces and listening to ET's audio tapes, over and over again. The idea being that when the storm blows, I hold on by clinging to this single weapon which I aim to hone and achieve my stillness. Not sure if this is making any sense. My thought is simple enough. As quoted in "I am That", just holding on to a single thought can lead to enlightenment..so who cares about all the noises about which books, which path, music, conventions etc....just one thought or idea....

Comment anyone?

magicbutterfly
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:32 am

Re: opinions please. Tolle = another lost chance at hope?

Post by magicbutterfly » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:22 pm

I believe that Eckhart Tolle is like an artist who paints because he has to or a composer who writes music because it's in him and it needs to get out. I am a writer and I write without asking "who is going to read this," or "do I have a message to share," or "I need to make some money so I better write something," but because I am inspired and this energy needs to go from me to the paper or computer screen. Only later I think about sharing it with others.
It's energy that is inside us and we are a channel for it. Music, poetry, painting, literature or philosophy - it's all the same.
And then of course if he decides to share it with others, the publisher wants to make money and the tax office wants some taxes, so he has to make enough to pay the taxes too. Perhaps the government won't let him be a non-profit organization or a religion because it would lose all that tax revenue. :D
"As soon as you honor the present moment, all unhappiness and struggle dissolve, and life begins to flow with joy and ease." Ekhart Tolle, The Power of Now

Post Reply