How can I know when I'm Present?

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Rubber Soul
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How can I know when I'm Present?

Post by Rubber Soul » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:21 am

As opposed to being below thoughts/unconscious?

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TemporalDissonance
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Re: How can I know when I'm Present?

Post by TemporalDissonance » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:24 am

I recall in Eckhart's "A New Earth", he said that watching TV and being drunk are examples of "below thoughts" because while we are not constantly thinking or attached to some thoughts, we aren't really aware of them or being present with them. Our brain just gone on a break or off on a holiday instead. Being Present is very active. You are aware of your thoughts when they arise and leave. And if you find yourself stuck on a thought, you actively choose to let it go instead of having it unattached because you weren't aware of them in the first place.

Enlightened2B
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Re: How can I know when I'm Present?

Post by Enlightened2B » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:25 pm

I like to use the example of seeing the "gaps" between thoughts. When there are no gaps between thoughts, you essentially BECOME those thoughts in the form of ego. However, when you notice that there is a beginning and an end to a thought, you are actually acknowledging that there IS a thought, but you see yourself obviously as NOT the thought since the thought is known at that point.

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TemporalDissonance
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Re: How can I know when I'm Present?

Post by TemporalDissonance » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:36 am

It seems there are 3 states: below thoughts, with thoughts (ego) and above thoughts (awareness). Presence is the last one.

divido
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Re: How can I know when I'm Present?

Post by divido » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:11 am

TemporalDissonance, would you like to explain what "below thoughts" and "with thoughts" is? I don't think i have ever been above thoughts, even when i am out walking, feeling every step i take, i have never felt "above thoughts", it feels like my mind is working in another way than everyone elses. Eckhart says that you can silence your mind by focusing on what you're doing, seeing, hearing etc, but for me it doesn't work. Meditation seems to be useless for me also while it works fine for most people.

"with thoughts", is that when you know that you have thoughts, but you are still identified with them?

I am very greatful for any answers.

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RCharles
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Re: How can I know when I'm Present?

Post by RCharles » Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:55 am

The easy answer is where else can you be except present? But I know you're not looking for that answer. Here's a more down to earth answer:

It's easy to think too much, even about being present. You're probably noticing your thoughts and thinking you're not present. Then you come back to being present and you think about being present, and so you wonder how you can be present when you're still thinking about being present?

The idea isn't to stop your thoughts. That's pretty close to impossible. The idea is just to see the thoughts come and go. At some point, you'll see that the thoughts no longer control you--they are just there, coming and going. It's a kind of freedom just to be able to watch your thoughts and not be controlled by them. Eventually you may realize that you're experiencing more of life in the moment because your thoughts aren't in control anymore. That's presence.

Chuck
"They are all...perfect..." --Ken Watanabe, dying scene in the movie The Last Samurai

divido
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Re: How can I know when I'm Present?

Post by divido » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:03 pm

Thankyou, i think you got it right there.

Fethor
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Re: How can I know when I'm Present?

Post by Fethor » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:42 am

Yes you can recognize that there are thougts and that thoughts come and go.
Than you can see that most thoughts leads to nothing!
That thoughts ARE the problem and with that power you can stop them.
Remember: Thoughts can be a really good tool to solve (practical) problems.
It even is a great gift to humanity in that way.
But the key is to use it as a tool and when you finished your (practical) problem you put your thoughts back in the toolbox, ready to use it when it is necassary again.

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TemporalDissonance
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Re: How can I know when I'm Present?

Post by TemporalDissonance » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:23 pm

divido,

- "below thoughts" is when one is unconscious and unaware of one's thoughts. It really means one is "spaced out".

- "with thoughts" is when one is still identified with thoughts. Chuck gave an eloquent answer. When you can see you are not your thoughts and not identify with them, it creates freedom and space which is then "above thoughts" because you can watch them come and go without attachment. There is an element of surrendering/letting go to all the thoughts that passes by.

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