Are we responsible for our lives?

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Modern501
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Are we responsible for our lives?

Post by Modern501 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:30 am

I have been wondering... Are we victims or responsible for our lives? Or is it all our egos fault?

jimmyrich
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Re: Are we responsible for our lives?

Post by jimmyrich » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:29 am

Modern501 wrote:I have been wondering... Are we victims or responsible for our lives? Or is it all our egos fault?
I am not sure who or what "we" is :lol:, but, speaking for myself here = yes, I am responsible for my life (adventure) to the best of my abilities. I sure wouldn't blame anything on a scapegoat like the "ego". :)

Modern501
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Re: Are we responsible for our lives?

Post by Modern501 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:07 am

If we are responsible for our lives, then why do so many people blame the Ego for their problems or their separation from Consciousness? I think the "problem" is that there are so many different definitions of THE EGO that its confusing a lot of people. Some think its an identity, others think its identification. I am confused but i think I'll just let it be and accept of my unknowing.

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TemporalDissonance
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Re: Are we responsible for our lives?

Post by TemporalDissonance » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:09 pm

Modern501 wrote:If we are responsible for our lives, then why do so many people blame the Ego for their problems or their separation from Consciousness? I think the "problem" is that there are so many different definitions of THE EGO that its confusing a lot of people. Some think its an identity, others think its identification. I am confused but i think I'll just let it be and accept of my unknowing.
When one blames the ego for any problem including their separation from Consciousness, this very act of blaming can only stems from the ego.

The ego is both an "identity" and "identification". Through identification, an identity comes into existence. An identity then dictates types of identification. It is cyclical and there may not be a clear catalyst.

For example: A person becomes a "parent" (identity), through having a child (identification to an "object", in this case another human being). Having identified as a "parent", they expose themselves to the multitude of "parental" identifications, as "parents are to put the child's needs before all else", "parents are to give the best to their child", etc. which they come to enact and thus, reinforcing the original identity of "parent". The cycle then continues.

We are responsible because we can break this cycle.

kutto
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Re: Are we responsible for our lives?

Post by kutto » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:07 am

If we are not responsible for our lives who is?

Just a general comment - I think Tolle has tended to paint Ego as something negative when it is not necessarily so. We can certainly be too egoic but I think the whole 'no ego' thing is going a little too far and is misleading. It is a natural part of our makeup and always will be albeit a much smaller and simpler part.

I think if people look deeply within it is the painbody that is a far more 'useful' point of attention. It is a much harder thing to approach than essentially conceptual rearranging. Although there is nothing 'wrong' with that but sometimes 'awareness' can be a way of not feeling and actually avoiding that which limits us more deeply until we approach it - our painbody. Underneath that all is a divine and natural creature whos natural state is joy.

Intellectualising is complex but easy. Feeling pain is simple but hard.

jimmyrich
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Re: Are we responsible for our lives?

Post by jimmyrich » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:44 am

kutto wrote:I think Tolle has tended to paint Ego as something negative when it is not necessarily so.
IMO, this may be the best and most useful exploration of the ego (selves) that anybody has done so far - check it out....http://www.voicedialogue.org/FAQ/What_a ... Selves.htm
:)

Modern501
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Re: Are we responsible for our lives?

Post by Modern501 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:58 am

it kind of seems like in the New Age realm, we are not responsible for what our Ego does, it does it own thing. And I am all about taking accountability for your actions. I think of what is Awareness. What we are being aware of? That I have thoughts? That I think? I think I was raised to believe that I control my thoughts when I was a little boy. I think A LOT of people are more Aware than we give them credit for.

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TemporalDissonance
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Re: Are we responsible for our lives?

Post by TemporalDissonance » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:28 pm

kutto wrote:Although there is nothing 'wrong' with that but sometimes 'awareness' can be a way of not feeling and actually avoiding that which limits us more deeply until we approach it - our painbody.
Are you sure that's what Eckhart said? Awareness isn't about avoiding the painbody...as far as I can recall Eckhart tells us to face it head on, feel it and dive right into it and not avoid anything. It is the avoidance that makes the painbody persist.
Modern501 wrote:it kind of seems like in the New Age realm, we are not responsible for what our Ego does, it does it own thing. And I am all about taking accountability for your actions. I think of what is Awareness. What we are being aware of? That I have thoughts? That I think? I think I was raised to believe that I control my thoughts when I was a little boy. I think A LOT of people are more Aware than we give them credit for.
To be aware of one's thoughts is really just the start of it. Control all the thoughts you want... but that's not the point of being aware. That is manipulation, a mind's game.

Notice that by saying "in such and such realm, we are not responsible for what our Ego does...etc" is itself a thought, actually a projection of an idea you have of such realm. Is that true?

Similarly, "I think A LOT of people are more Aware than we give them credit for." is itself a judgement. Being aware it not just about noticing you have thoughts. It transcends it.

kutto
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Re: Are we responsible for our lives?

Post by kutto » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:39 am

Are you sure that's what Eckhart said? Awareness isn't about avoiding the painbody...as far as I can recall Eckhart tells us to face it head on, feel it and dive right into it and not avoid anything. It is the avoidance that makes the painbody persist.
That is correct. The point I was making was that I believe 'chasing awareness' can be a way of avoiding the painbody. I have experienced a blissful state of being/awareness for periods but in itself it does not dissolve the painbody.

There is also a subtle difference between being present and having awareness of a feeling and going into the feeling. It is the going into that does the dissolving. And in the dissolving, the deep prize.

I think it can sometimes be a trap to seek some sort of reinterpritive way of getting around the painbody and seeking the blissful state instead. You can't - you have to into it and through it but it certainly helps a lot to have your thoughts in check during this process, which stops and starts.

Yes this is a generalised comment based on many threads and posts across the forum but all I am suggesting is to look deeply within. Are you going into feelings or skirting them?

It is natural to skirt difficult feelings and skirting them is a natural part of the approaching. In some cases can even take years for them to surface properly and then there can be many layers, layer after layer. But after each one you get a little lighter...

It is a very significant element of Tolles teaching - Barry Long also describes it well but uses a different term. Dealing with it does not get a lot of press on the forums. Far more so that Ego. [A quick note- 'painbody' is referenced in just 0.7% of posts within the 40,000+ in General Discussion in a forum search]

Deal with the painbody and the ego will just shrink to it's natural state within the balance of who you are.

tod
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Re: Are we responsible for our lives?

Post by tod » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:54 am

Kutto, I have responded to your post here : http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... 10&t=11755 so as to not get off topic.

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