Who Decides to Take the Leap?

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rachMiel
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Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by rachMiel » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:03 pm

Self/ego often decides to get on a path to psychological/spiritual recovery.

Ouch! This hurts too much! I want it to stop! Let's see which traditions/teachers can help me with that.

And staying on this path can take one quite far. But at some point the precipice is met, the cliff looms ... and a decision must be made: To leap, or not to leap.

Who/what decides to take this leap ... or not?
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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by rachMiel » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:54 pm

It's relatively easy to identify who/what decides* NOT to take the leap:

Ego, psychological status quo, that in us which fears the unknown.

* A decision that can occur consciously, but most often, I think, occurs beneath the threshold of conscious awareness.

But identifying who/what says Yes! to the leap ... that's trickier, right?
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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by rachMiel » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:58 pm

Could it be that life/being itself says yes to the leap? That life TAKES the leap when ego is exhausted enough to give up its throne? Can ego ever see the damage it causes and step down for the good of the organism?
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TemporalDissonance
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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by TemporalDissonance » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:13 pm

There are likely no singular way to "take the leap". It really depends on how that leap "happened" too doesn't it? :)

However, I suspect Ego and Being can take that leap "together". Ego may not necessarily understand what it is doing, but may desire to hand the reigns to Being or anyone else. This may be particularly in cases for those who took that leap through "self negation" as Eckhart have done.

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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by tod » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:22 pm

You put your base jumping gear on first, and find it's a buzz. :)

Yumcha
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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by Yumcha » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:13 am

"Leap" to where?

One needs ego as part of the process, without "it," there is nowhere to leap.

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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by rachMiel » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:33 am

Or "no one" to leap?
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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by rachMiel » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:37 pm

TemporalDissonance wrote:However, I suspect Ego and Being can take that leap "together".
Could be. Ego is, after all, (part of) Being, right?

Interesting question: How "intelligent" can ego become? Smart enough to recognize the harm it causes while trying to protect itself (which it mistakes for Self)?
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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by Yumcha » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:33 am

When you say "no-one to leap," what exactly does that mean?

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Rick
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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by Rick » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:14 pm

Yumcha wrote:"Leap" to where?

One needs ego as part of the process, without "it," there is nowhere to leap.
Perhaps the word "leap" is not the best word to use. Leaping implies a leaper separate from that leaped into. Perhaps a better way of expressing the process is to use the word "shed". When we shed the illusion of a separate self (and all the thoughts/beliefs that feed that idea), we discover that Who we are has never, ever not been the case all along. A tiger who, by a mistake of conditions and circumstance, believing himself to be a lamb, has never not been a tiger. He becomes free of illusion when the Truth is discovered, and the false clearly seen as false. The Truth will make you free. Beingness does not need to be "leaped" into, we are already That, we only need to shed the ignorance that blocks clear seeing.

"All are waves on the same, one ocean, composed, as ocean water is, of the same substance: Spirit. Some of the waves are higher then others. Some waves don’t even want to distance themselves from the ocean. All waves, no matter how high, are in essence one and the same. The difference between the Guru and the disciples, then, lies only in their respective closeness to the ocean: in how conscious each one is of his essential reality. The greater the sense of ego, the taller the wave, and the greater, in consequence, the ignorance. The greater one’s awareness of the ocean as one’s soul reality, the smaller the wave, and also the less his sense of having a separate individuality. -Yogananda

(edited for clarity sake)
Last edited by Rick on Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by Onceler » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:53 pm

I stumbled off the edge unknowingly.....before I had been terrified to take the leap.

Free fall ain't so bad.

Or as Tom Petty says, "yeah, I'm free....free falling now"

I think one of the great lines of all time, spiritual or otherwise.
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by ashley72 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:22 pm

Who decides to take the leap?

For people who suffer from Anxiety, OCD, PTSD, Agoraphobia, Social Anxiety & many other phobias the Amygdala is what makes them leap. It's about the size of almond, and it responsible for triggering our emotional memories... Fear response etc. It doesn't learn or listen to information coming from the pre frontal cortex. But it can shutdown the pre frontal cortex in a heart beat by depriving it of oxygen.

The only way the Amygdala relearns old conditioning is from exposure therapy. It's a kind of learned associative memory not a rational or conceptual sequential learning.

I've been recently using exposure therapy to overcome deep seated anxiety triggers. It's an extremely effective treatment.

I knew my fears were irrational many years ago, but that didn't stop my Amygdala responding to certain stimuli in inappropriate ways. The rational mind wanted to use avoidance as the remedy. But this failed because the Amygdala isn't part of the rational brain circuitry... It just doesn't compute rational thought. It only computes learning from exposures to stimulus.

Therefore, one overcomes suffering of this kind by exposing oneselve to the feared stimulus & removing all safety behaviours that maintain the fear-conditioning.

Tolle's pointers for watching the rational thinker, might be useful in seeing first hand the redundant nature of the pre frontal cortex against the superiority of the Amygdala... But his pointers doesn't don't actually address or help the sufferer overcome their irrational fear-conditioning.

Exposure therapy is the crucial part to overcoming these crippling phobias. :wink:

If you've never heard about the Amygdala.. Watch some videos on the "Amygdala Hijack". This happens to people when they have a fear response or any strong emotional response including Rage.

No where in Tolle's books do I recall him talking about the importance of "exposing" oneself to irrational fears in order to retrain the Amygdala to respond more appropriately to stimulus.

Tolle's practice is about dis-identifying with the rational thinker, but that won't help one tiny bit with the Amygdala circuitry we all have for dealing with real or perceived threats.

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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by rachMiel » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:17 am

I tried exposure therapy a few years back. Hated it. Passionately! It made me feel sick, worse than the anxiety it was supposed to (and didn't) heal.

My niece otoh is doing exposure therapy for panic attacks and it's helping a lot.
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ashley72
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Re: Who Decides to Take the Leap?

Post by ashley72 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:58 pm

rachMiel wrote:I tried exposure therapy a few years back. Hated it. Passionately! It made me feel sick, worse than the anxiety it was supposed to (and didn't) heal.

My niece otoh is doing exposure therapy for panic attacks and it's helping a lot.
Hi Rach,

Unfortunately exposure therapy can come with a lot of physical discomfort but not danger. I had another big exposure yesterday and for most of the day my Amygdala was hijacking my pre frontal cortex. However, eventually after moving thru the first fear (Amygdala hijack) the remainder of the exposure was normal & pleasant.

Next time I have those same friends around for lunch it will be less physical discomfort & less irrational thinking patterns prior to the exposure and during the first 30 minutes. It's a gradual process but my life is definitely starting to return to normal again.

I don't expect not to have any amygdala response at all, some physical discomfort due to performance anxiety is normal.

It was the inappropriate response by the pre frontal neo cortex of trying to avoid stimulus that causes such suffering (perceived 2nd fear). When you realise why you get caught in a positive feedback loop you stop trying to put out the fire with gasoline! It's completely insane to try and battle against your Amygdala with rational thought, once you realise this simple rule of accepting the Amygdala response and get out of the way.... Things return to normal.

I knew for many years that my resistance or internal battle was the reason for my suffering or prolonged physical discomfort, I just didn't realise that rational thought (safety behaviours) was the cause.

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