The Obsession with Wealth Creation

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ashley72
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The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by ashley72 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:32 am

I've notice that one obsession that constantly hounds me, are doubts like...

Do I have enough financial assets?
Is my income sustainable?

An these doubts, lead me into thinking about new wealth creation strategies.

It seem our capitalist ways of thinking are unintentionally encouraging OCD patterns of behavior. :?

Do others agree?

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smiileyjen101
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by smiileyjen101 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:50 am

It seem our capitalist ways of thinking are unintentionally encouraging OCD patterns of behavior
As with all things Ash, the devil is in the detail and the degree to which one holds on to a notion of one thing meaning any other thing. Financial awareness need not be obsessive, just realistic.

Eg:
Do I have enough financial assets?
What for? Do you want to buy an ice cream right now?
Or, do you want to be able to afford something at some other time?
The simple answer is factual.... a matter of fact - either you do have enough in that moment of transaction, or you don't.

If you don't you may be able to change those circumstances or accept that your desire is not going to be fulfilled.
No need to suffer or obsess over it, neither of those things will change the material facts.
Is my income sustainable?
Is it sustaining you now? If so :D
If not see the answer to the do I have enough... question.

OCD patterns of behaviour are when we run away with the projected fears of things rather than the realities of them.

If our 'capitalist ways of thinking' take us away from what is right now as being 'enough', and if we believe in the fear campaigns of needing ever growing 'more', we might get shaky because there is no real foundation under any of it, and then we might start looking for things to hold onto obsessively (?)

Try answering those two questions above with I don't (really) know, I'm doing my best and that's okay too :D

In reality, if you live long enough and well enough in gratitude and generosity, the answer to both questions will likely eventually be no, and that's okay too :wink:

It will only really mean that you actually lived your life, rather than worry about it.

Live across all dimensions of your life so that at the end of it you leave nothing and owe no one, and no one feels cheated in the least, especially you.

The attitude of gratitude is a great antidote to material 'enough' concerns.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

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KathleenBrugger
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by KathleenBrugger » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:59 am

I don't want to get into trouble by talking about politics, but you can tell smileyjen doesn't live in the US. I am sympathetic to what you're saying here Ashley. How many ads do you hear asking "are you saving enough for retirement?" with a slightly menacing aura that most of us aren't. Not to mention that our culture worships money. And that we're regularly warned that Social Security is going broke. No wonder we're crazy about money here.

This made me think of an article I saw in the New York Times last week about the link between income inequality and mental illness. It discussed recent research:
One, looking at the 50 American states, discovered that after taking account of age, income and educational differences, depression was more common in states with greater income inequality. Another, which combined data from over 100 surveys in 26 countries, found that schizophrenia was about three times as common in more unequal societies as it was in more equal ones.
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coriolis
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by coriolis » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:13 pm

There is a gentleman in the U.S., Daniel Shellbarger aka. "Suelo", who has lived "without money" for more than a decade now.

Story HERE

Blog HERE

If his experience cannot ease your mind of "money anxiety" I don't know what will.

But one might begin with an appreciation of the fact that wealth and money are two very different things that bear no necessary realationship unless they are believed to by dint by political doctrine and socio-economic dogma.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin

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treasuretheday
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by treasuretheday » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:53 pm

Yes, there are those who seem to know the price of everything and the value of nothing, as the old saying goes.
coriolis wrote:wealth and money are two very different things that bear no necessary realationship
Well-said.

Brings to mind a speech given by Robert Kennedy in 1968:

” … the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages; the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage; neither our wisdom nor our learning; neither our compassion nor our devotion; it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile ... "

Challenges the notion that only what we can count, counts!
Life itself is the proper binge.
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SandyJoy
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by SandyJoy » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:52 pm

I was going to say what Treasure said, but mine was not going to be quite as eloquent and generous. I had something a bit more blunt in mind. Good thing she spoke up first. 8)
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.

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treasuretheday
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by treasuretheday » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:04 pm

Hahaha! Very intriguing, Sandy. 8) Perhaps you will say more later... :wink:
Life itself is the proper binge.
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rideforever
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by rideforever » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:32 pm

I think about this too as I am in the fortunate position (for once in my life) of not having to work for a few years ... and in any case working in IT is deliberate and systematic suicide.

I see my future in some kind of land-based or spiritual community, so I suppose as long as I find one in the next couple of years then that is my future. I need very little these days, even a monastery is not out of the question - although I think the women-action is not so good there !!!

Life is short and I will die at some point ... I would prefer to use this time for my own inner growth, than to live in an office with dead people, dying in the most miserable way together.

I would prefer some fresh air no matter the 'cost' ... at least I would have experienced my own breathing before I am stone cold and the insects start eating my body, turning me to dust.

Living in the East is cheap too ... but ... well decisions need to be made.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
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SandyJoy
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by SandyJoy » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:25 pm

Don't encourage me -- I was going down the road about Kathleen's post and we know how that one ends :shock:
KathleenBrugger wrote:New York Times last week about the link between income inequality and mental illness


What twisted statistical government approved disinformation are they spreading now?

No matter what, Ashley, it comes down to reclaiming a mind of your own, independent from the collective-sheep-think. Break free. Do It!

Once you see the powerlessness of fear, you will become all that you are meant to be and that includes wealth in all ways.
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.

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treasuretheday
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by treasuretheday » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:31 pm

SandyJoy wrote:Once you see the powerlessness of fear, you will become all that you are meant to be and that includes wealth in all ways.
Yes, that seems to echo the LoA principle that whatever we focus on we get more of. If I am following correctly, the universe does not understand NO. So as we say we don't want to live an impoverished retirement, and fret about that and obsess over it, the universe hears "impoverished" and sends us impoverishment!

So the idea is to focus on what we Do want, And how we FEEL as we focus creates our vibrational frequency. We must be saying things, thinking about ideas we believe though. "Positive mantras" that are just words to us won't help the cause. We must feel good about what we are saying and thinking, or we still vibrate at a low frequency. Gosh, I'm no expert on LoA, but I think I am on the right track. It seems quite relevant to this discussion, so thought I'd throw it out there. Posts here about LoA by Webwanderer have stimulated my interest and curiosity. I want to learn more!
KathleenBrugger wrote:How many ads do you hear asking "are you saving enough for retirement?" with a slightly menacing aura that most of us aren't.
LOL! I know just the commercial you are talking about, & it drives me up the wall! When it came on one day this week I was in the kitchen & heard it, and let out a noise. My husband thought I'd hurt myself, & came rushing in, "Are you okay?" "Yeah, I just hate that commercial." "What commercial?" "The one that's on now about retirement...have you saved enough? Argghhh! Like we're all going to end up eating cat food and donating blood so we can get the free donuts. And they won't let me donate blood because I am 5 pounds under the minimum weight. So no free donuts for me." "That's what the commercial said?" "Yes." "Maybe you should write them a letter."

Hahahah! I mean talk about thoughts running amok! Of course, I was joking, but that sort of fretful, worried reaction is what they are after! How obnoxious! More and more, though, don't we see through it and feel angry? Then we laugh, and move beyond the fears and negative spin the media and advertisers so want us to design our lives around.
Life itself is the proper binge.
-Julia Child

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KathleenBrugger
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by KathleenBrugger » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:32 pm

treasuretheday wrote:
KathleenBrugger wrote:How many ads do you hear asking "are you saving enough for retirement?" with a slightly menacing aura that most of us aren't.
LOL! I know just the commercial you are talking about, & it drives me up the wall! When it came on one day this week I was in the kitchen & heard it, and let out a noise. My husband thought I'd hurt myself, & came rushing in, "Are you okay?" "Yeah, I just hate that commercial." "What commercial?" "The one that's on now about retirement...have you saved enough? Argghhh! Like we're all going to end up eating cat food and donating blood so we can get the free donuts. And they won't let me donate blood because I am 5 pounds under the minimum weight. So no free donuts for me." "That's what the commercial said?" "Yes." "Maybe you should write them a letter."

Hahahah! I mean talk about thoughts running amok! Of course, I was joking, but that sort of fretful, worried reaction is what they are after! How obnoxious! More and more, though, don't we see through it and feel angry? Then we laugh, and move beyond the fears and negative spin the media and advertisers so want us to design our lives around.
Believe me, Sandyjoy, I don't want to have that conversation again either! :lol:

But Ashley was talking about anxieties and what treasure wrote here perfectly expresses what I meant--there's a lot of outside influences in our culture that feed anxiety and insecurity. And I think, although I could very well be wrong, these are less in Australia and some other countries.

I also agree absolutely that money and wealth are too completely different things. That's a beautiful RFK quote, treasure. And putting our attention on what's really important can help us learn to laugh at those cultural influences.
sandyjoy wrote
twisted statistical government approved disinformation
Not sure what you mean here. This article was written by two Britishers, "co-founders of the Equality Trust, a British-based think tank."
We are ALL Innocent by Reason of Insanity
http://kathleenbrugger.blogspot.com/

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ashley72
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by ashley72 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:48 pm

coriolis wrote:There is a gentleman in the U.S., Daniel Shellbarger aka. "Suelo", who has lived "without money" for more than a decade now.

Story HERE

Blog HERE

If his experience cannot ease your mind of "money anxiety" I don't know what will.

But one might begin with an appreciation of the fact that wealth and money are two very different things that bear no necessary realationship unless they are believed to by dint by political doctrine and socio-economic dogma.
Interesting story. However, I don't agree when Daniel says money is merely an illusion. I would rather characterise "money" as phenomena that arises out of multiplicity of relative simple interactions.... It naturally emergences again due to an increase in complexity. Not unlike why the internet has emerged in the digital age. All these new systems emerging due to a natural increase in complexity of any system. If you want to get rid of money you would have to reduce the level of complexity of the system, 1 man can do that for himself (1 interaction), but 7 billion people can't do that with out a lot of dysfunction entering the whole system.

A system that has evolved in complexity over 1000s of years, can't be just changed by 1 man on a whim. It will change, but the system as whole will dictate the course.
Last edited by ashley72 on Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Onceler
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by Onceler » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:52 pm

Another NY Times article that may reinforce your theory, Ashley......although they use the addiction model:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/19/opini ... money.html
Be present, be pleasant.

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SandyJoy
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by SandyJoy » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:15 pm

KathleenBrugger wrote:Believe me, Sandyjoy, I don't want to have that conversation again either!
:P

I will avoid it at all costs, but I will answer your question on this:
KathleenBrugger wrote:Not sure what you mean here. This article was written by two Britishers, "co-founders of the Equality Trust, a British-based think tank."
Doesn't matter where the article comes from. I am just saying the New York Times is not actually a free press they are the machine, promoting an agenda, they'll use any article from anywhere that supports their ideology.

Okay, I am outta here-- Enjoy !
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.

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coriolis
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Re: The Obsession with Wealth Creation

Post by coriolis » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:32 pm

ashley72 wrote:[I would rather characterise "money" as phenomena that arises out of multiplicity of relative simple interactions.... It naturally emergences again due to an increase in complexity.
I would argue the opposite.

That money is a gross over-simplification of many complex transactions because it is so easily hijacked by corrupt interests that it is incapable of distributing wealth to those people who have actually earned it through doing something of benefit to the society they live in -- and therfore tends to ludicrously reward those who contribute little or nothing (or actually destroy) the ecosystem that must support us all.

Compare what we pay school teachers to what we pay investment bankers if you need an obvious example.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin

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