Tired of the play

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums
dijmart
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by dijmart » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:01 am

rodriguez_88 wrote:You keep identifying with the body, subtly, through statements such as,
I'm married and have family. I have done self inquiry
Sooo, you never use pronoun's when speaking? You don't have a family or do you deny what is? Because of course you have a family! And wouldn't you say to someone "I" have a family?

Or do you say, "this body is married and has family"..."this mind, that I am not, is writing a post right now".

Does awareness get tired? Does it identify with anything other than itself? If you had arrived at the understanding of who you truly were and had 'finished' self-inquiry, don't you think that you would have the clarity of knowing you truly never did self-inquiry in the first place?
Well, seeing that I am consciousness and I get tired, I guess consciousness does get tired, because what else is there but consciousness? But I know that's not what you were trying to get me to say. And does consciousness identify with anything but itself, well, guess not since all IS consciousness, isn't it? and yes, I do know that it is consciousness that has become conscious of itself, but I don't not recall ever stating that I had "finished" anything.

I sense you are speaking only from the absolute perspective, but to deny the relative, is not the full picture.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by smiileyjen101 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:53 am

I suppose I'm lacking the willingness. I've never been a very high energy person, so when my energy get's zapped, it's pretty bad, it feels like I'm dragging the body along kicking and screaming.
DJ I didn't realise you have MS goodness girl... give yourself a break (mentally as well as physically). As E2B says if our bodies are coping with dis~ease, especially a chronic, persistent one, we get used to operating 'effectively' at reduced energy levels as a matter of course, and like pain thresholds when we are used to pain, we may not realise when we've overdone it. We're just so used to the 'grind'.

I'm glad you took a day off. I heard a few years ago in the UK some organisations allowed a number of 'doona days' per year. Not for when you're so sick you can't get out of bed, but for days when all our body is craving is our attention, for more rest and less pressure just to let some of it leak away. On the employer's parts it makes sense to have rejuvenated staff at work rather than stressed, tired, cranky, and therefore less effective staff. Working in a place that understands that we are not machines would be a boost in itself.

If we go to understanding what it is to live with love uppermost - truly honouring our selves and others, loving our selves - treating our bodies, minds, and spirits with respect; and enacting gratitude and generosity - we wouldn't put ourselves or others through some of the ritualistic role-playing crap that engenders 'surviving' and towing the line, rather than authentically living.

You likely ARE dragging your body along kicking and screaming - and that's why it feels like that. :roll:

And, you are absolutely right that the relative matters - the relative is the 'matter' bit of life.

Learn to listen to your body, and treat it kindly. It will reward you tenfold. :D

I had a chronic disease (endometriosis) that caused merry heck for nigh on 40 years - with one surgically induced respite that lasted about 3 months and allowed me to understand what others meant by 'normal' -- made me cry actually as I had no idea 'that' - living without pain & associated side effects was what everyone had been asking about in feeling 'normal', when my 'normal' was far different, I just didn't know we were talking about two completely different things.

I realised in comparison to 'normal normal', at times I was operating with about 95% of my capacity flowing towards 'managing' 'coping' & 'surviving'. The 5% though became pretty big, it had to. With the realisation I became totally honest with myself and with others - you'll have to go easy on me, I've only got 5% energy to spare --- and I spent it wisely and not playing catch up when I was feeling better - to do that would have only drained me more and left me less capable for the next round.

Does that make sense? We need to stop 'keeping score' and just be honest and respectful of how it is right now, offer no apologies or excuses for what 'is', and don't take on a debt of things not done.

Living, really living attends mentally, physically and spiritually to what is right now (& therefore flows into emotional well being as well).

Being honestly unwilling, and being honest about being unwilling is wonderfully freeing!!
Think about it, people say "I can't" when they really mean 'I choose not to' but don't have the courage to say that :wink:
It comes from fear of disappointing someone, which comes from fear of them withdrawing their love... and oh what a tangled web we weave....

Cheryl Richardson's book Let Me Disappoint You is brilliant in giving strategies in the art of 'extreme self care' that isn't narcissistic, it's actually a gift to all involved because honesty is the highest form of love. She speaks of learning to disappoint people with grace and love

There's an excerpt here http://www.healthywealthynwise.com/arti ... ticle=5614


So the next time you feel/think
"ugh, I don't want to!"
say it out loud :D and don't do it unless you are completely happy and willing to. Love flows freely, resentment and resistance cannot find a foothold, and if it doesn't have a foothold it can't weigh you down or hold you back.

So, it's funny DJ, I think that next cycle / roller coaster ride in increasing awareness and authentic being may have arrived - fasten your seatbelt? :wink:
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

Enlightened2B
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by Enlightened2B » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:39 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
DJ I didn't realise you have MS goodness girl...
I didn't realize that either until now. I kind of regret writing my last post now. Hope it didn't come across as insensitive. :oops:

runstrails
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by runstrails » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:45 am

Take care, Dij. I've heard that MS can cause fatigue. I think Jen's post is spot on. It's totally fine to give yourself a break. Please keep us posted. Lots of hugs. rt

rodriguez_88
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by rodriguez_88 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:13 am

dijmart wrote:Sooo, you never use pronoun's when speaking? You don't have a family or do you deny what is? Because of course you have a family! And wouldn't you say to someone "I" have a family?

Or do you say, "this body is married and has family"..."this mind, that I am not, is writing a post right now".
Sure, I have a family. And I also use pronouns, of course!
Well, seeing that I am consciousness and I get tired, I guess consciousness does get tired, because what else is there but consciousness? But I know that's not what you were trying to get me to say.
Frankly, dijmart, I wasn't trying to get you to say anything. :)
And does consciousness identify with anything but itself, well, guess not since all IS consciousness, isn't it?
What do you mean by 'all'? Are there objects when speaking about it?
and yes, I do know that it is consciousness that has become conscious of itself, but I don't not recall ever stating that I had "finished" anything.
Sounded like you implied it by saying,
I have done self inquiry and I know who I am


I sense you are speaking only from the absolute perspective, but to deny the relative, is not the full picture.
I'm not denying the relative. I'm simply saying that you're conflicted because you've identified yourself with the one who has a family, a good paying job, the one who's done self-inquiry, etc...

In the Self there is nothing separate, so where can the distinctions arise?

dijmart
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by dijmart » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:58 pm

rodriguez_88 wrote: I'm simply saying that you're conflicted because you've identified yourself with the one who has a family, a good paying job, the one who's done self-inquiry, etc...
Oh my, well let's agree to disagree. I don't want to go around and around with you about it. :roll:


To all the others who commented-

Thanks for your concern, yes I have M.S., it's been 22 years now, diagnosed at 21 yo. I have relapsing-remitting M.S. So, most of the time I'm what you'd call "normal", if you saw me you'd never know, but when I have an exacerbation, then I'm not so good- but after a few weeks, thus far I always go back to baseline afterwards.

Yes, M.S. can cause fatigue and I have to be careful, but this has been different lately- much more pronounced, however the day of rest yesterday, in the middle of the week, did me wonders! :D So, I'm just going to take the advice I've been given (thank you all) and do the best I can, with what I got.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

rodriguez_88
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by rodriguez_88 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:43 pm

dijmart wrote:Oh my, well let's agree to disagree. I don't want to go around and around with you about it. :roll:
Ok. But for the record, I hear what you're saying; you're speaking from and about the relative perspective, and I can see that. :)

Thanks for your concern, yes I have M.S., it's been 22 years now, diagnosed at 21 yo. I have relapsing-remitting M.S. So, most of the time I'm what you'd call "normal", if you saw me you'd never know, but when I have an exacerbation, then I'm not so good- but after a few weeks, thus far I always go back to baseline afterwards.

Yes, M.S. can cause fatigue and I have to be careful, but this has been different lately- much more pronounced, however the day of rest yesterday, in the middle of the week, did me wonders! :D So, I'm just going to take the advice I've been given (thank you all) and do the best I can, with what I got.
I'm sorry to hear you suffer from M.S. Hopefully some of the questions you had were answered with the help of the forum.

Good day!

dijmart
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by dijmart » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:59 am

rodriguez_88 wrote:
dijmart wrote:Oh my, well let's agree to disagree. I don't want to go around and around with you about it. :roll:
Ok. But for the record, I hear what you're saying; you're speaking from and about the relative perspective, and I can see that. :)
Ok, so who is putting it on the record?

Who's hearing what I'm saying?

Who's judging what perspective I'm speaking from and about?

Who is seeing what?

You couldn't just leave it be, could you?
Take what you like and leave the rest.

peas
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by peas » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:58 am

More important than the fatigue is the reactivity shown to Rodriguez. There was a strong need to control the conversation. To only get advice that fits a pre-determined mould, created in the mind.

None of that is 'personal', but it clearly is made personal somewhere inside you.

If you truly do want to be free from the pain you will investigate this reactivity with openness. After reading your posts my recommendation would be to seek a counsellor to help you do that properly. There is something stopping you from going deeper, which may require the help of a present person to unpack it.

My advice can be tested by asking if you feel uneasy about even what I have said. Remember, you are never upset for the reason you think.

Have a read of my summary of Eckhart's Q & A on therapy: http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... 08#p109663 .

rodriguez_88
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by rodriguez_88 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:11 am

dijmart wrote: Ok, so who is putting it on the record?

Who's hearing what I'm saying?

Who's judging what perspective I'm speaking from and about?

Who is seeing what?

You couldn't just leave it be, could you?
:roll:

dijmart
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by dijmart » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:06 am

Peas,

I will not even waste my time/energy replying to what you posted... :lol: It's laughable.
Last edited by dijmart on Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

Enlightened2B
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by Enlightened2B » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:12 am

peas wrote:More important than the fatigue is the reactivity shown to Rodriguez. There was a strong need to control the conversation. To only get advice that fits a pre-determined mould, created in the mind.

None of that is 'personal', but it clearly is made personal somewhere inside you.

If you truly do want to be free from the pain you will investigate this reactivity with openness. After reading your posts my recommendation would be to seek a counsellor to help you do that properly. There is something stopping you from going deeper, which may require the help of a present person to unpack it.

My advice can be tested by asking if you feel uneasy about even what I have said. Remember, you are never upset for the reason you think.

Have a read of my summary of Eckhart's Q & A on therapy: http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... 08#p109663 .
Wow dude. You're really reading into this. You're judging someone from the internet who you know absolutely nothing about and you're telling her that she needs to seek a counselor? Based on what? I thought her response was COMPLETELY rational to Rodriguez because I would have asked him/her the same question. Rod-88 was speaking from an absolute point of view (which many people on this board do for some reason) and it's very difficult and frustrating to have a conversation with someone when they can't even acknowledge that there is another person....at least relatively speaking who is conversing with them. We all join an internet forum to express our opinions. Yes, we each have opinions whether you would like admit it or not.

Everything relatively speaking is a form of 'relationship'. Whether it's the relationship with this computer or the relationship with another person, the only reason we don't all live in a white blotch of nothing (which would be the absolute) is because there are 'objects and people'....relatively speaking. I don't see anything wrong with what she wrote.

peas
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by peas » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:27 am

This is the part of the journey that gets tough - listening to the anger that rises up inside you. It's not rocket science but it seems to be the hardest thing humanly imaginable. And what makes it hard is the outward focus that the mind takes to defend itself. Both Diji and E2B have expressed anger, then projected it onto others. And that's absolutely fine. A great opportunity to go deeper.

V Peace V

Enlightened2B
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by Enlightened2B » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:29 am

peas wrote:This is the part of the journey that gets tough - listening to the anger that rises up inside you. It's not rocket science but it seems to be the hardest thing humanly imaginable. And what makes it hard is the outward focus that the mind takes to defend itself. Both Diji and E2B have expressed anger, then projected it onto others. And that's absolutely fine. A great opportunity to go deeper.

V Peace V
haha....expressed anger?? Ok, buddy....whatever you say.

dijmart
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by dijmart » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:32 am

En2B,

Thank You :D Peas goes around this board telling anyone with an opinion that they are being "reactive", he/she has already done this to me an another thread. So, It wasn't a big shock to see it again, except this time I was told I need counseling. :lol:
Take what you like and leave the rest.

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