Tired of the play

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:03 am

In the spirit of giggling over the posts in RT's 'royal we' thread, there's an interesting link to here.

Just a tiny bit of 'personal' 'relative' information when sharing can make an immense difference in relating. In both our understanding and our 'assuming' and suggesting things based on our own personal experiences. eg: E2B and myself sharing how chronic illnesses have impacted upon our energy levels, linking into new awareness of DJ's tiredness linking in with a different, but equally exhausting physical illness.

If we (and we all do it) propose suggestions it actually is helpful if it is backed up with personal, relative information.

So I'd like to ask ...
Peas, please tell us about your experiences with anger rising up...
Why did you find it so tough that you feel that it's the hardest thing humanly imaginable?
Were you under some false expectation that anger either shouldn't rise up, or shouldn't be expressed? And for you, what constitutes anger arising - is it just if someone disagrees with another's point of view, or dismisses a suggestion? (EKR says natural anger guides us, that it's the feeling that arises and once considered, dismiss - say 'no thank you' to a thing offered as an experience - no biggie really, once honestly expressed it dissipates within the 15 second frame).

Have you found counselling helpful in this area?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

peas
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by peas » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:57 am

Adding pre-requisites to someone's advice, that they have to have a 'relative' and 'personal' experience in that domain in order to be listened to, would exclude most of what is said by every spiritual teacher on these forums and off these forums. Under those conditions, we wouldn't listen to Eckhart as he explains the dynamic experience of parents with their children, nor many other lessons.

Where does such a suggested pre-requisite come from? Now the opportunity has opened up for Jen to explore that situation. Feel inside where that suggestion was born. There is much to learn from our questions and suggestions, for me as well :-)

If you're not having fun then feel that too. Where does the tightness inside you come from?

That is the essence of this journey. To ask the tough questions and not run from it.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:58 am

:?
Well it seems I asked quite few questions above Peas, and didn't experience any 'tightness' in doing so. The point in asking questions is to elicit more understanding, be that in ourselves or with others.

If you reread my post I didn't say a situation 'had to have' anything. Somehow you've assumed that is what I have said.

I said the sharing of personal relative information can widen perspectives and has a positive affect in relating with others, and I gave an example of that, and where the musing came from in wondering about your relationship with anger. Then I presented the questions that if answered, may assist others to understand when you are speaking about it, particularly when you are assigning it as an emotional experience in others, and prescribing courses of action.

Were you not having fun / feeling tightness when you were reading my questions?

I do like your suggestion -
That is the essence of this journey. To ask the tough questions and not run from it.
Can you see that you did?

So, I'll ask again - in the interests of widening all of our perspectives and increasing understanding in relating -
Peas, please tell us about your experiences with anger rising up...

Why did you find it so tough that you feel that it's the hardest thing humanly imaginable?
Were you under some false expectation that anger either shouldn't rise up, or shouldn't be expressed?

And for you, what constitutes anger arising - is it just if someone disagrees with another's point of view, or dismisses a suggestion?

Have you found counselling helpful in this area?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

peas
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by peas » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:02 am

My previous post still stands. "Backed up" can only mean one thing.

beginnersmind
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by beginnersmind » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:03 pm

peas wrote:My previous post still stands. "Backed up" can only mean one thing.
Oh, I don't know. Backed up can mean a couple of things, like one needs more fiber in their diet for example :mrgreen:

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Webwanderer
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:58 pm

beginnersmind wrote:
peas wrote:My previous post still stands. "Backed up" can only mean one thing.
Oh, I don't know. Backed up can mean a couple of things, like one needs more fiber in their diet for example :mrgreen:
Now this is insight at its finest. Well said on so many levels. :wink:

WW

peas
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by peas » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:34 pm

beginnersmind wrote:
peas wrote:My previous post still stands. "Backed up" can only mean one thing.
Oh, I don't know. Backed up can mean a couple of things, like one needs more fiber in their diet for example :mrgreen:
I hope this forum has these funny posts backed up too! ;-)

dijmart
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by dijmart » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:11 pm

Peas,

You seem to have no problem judging others, even if incorrectly, where does this come from inside you? Do you sense this "tightness" in you when you cast judgement?

There is such a thing as an enlightened ego, an ego that thinks it is enlightened, an ego that takes the realization of awakening to construct a new and superior sense of self. This would make the person feel that they are always right, they have all the correct answers. This is the view of an ego that is grabbing awakening and pretending to be awake. Do you see yourself in this?

This would also explain why you would not want to share any personal information about yourself, because you are "above" doing such a thing.

There may be resistance to this, so dig deep!
Take what you like and leave the rest.

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Webwanderer
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:51 pm

Peas, dijmart's comments are well worth considering. It's one thing to tell others how you see things. It's quite another to tell them assertively how it is for them - especially when you know them so little. One is a kind of personal experience or insight sharing, the other is more authoritarian and presumptive. The latter doesn't connect so well as you are seeing. This is likely why you are getting such negative feedback in these posts.

Respecting another's freedom of perspective in their own growth process is a key part of our own growth. Well, that's the way I see it anyway.

WW

Enlightened2B
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by Enlightened2B » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:58 pm

beginnersmind wrote:
peas wrote:My previous post still stands. "Backed up" can only mean one thing.
Oh, I don't know. Backed up can mean a couple of things, like one needs more fiber in their diet for example :mrgreen:
Aint that the truth! :lol:

peas
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by peas » Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:04 am

Everyone's posts are well worth 'considering'. But let us not mistake what that means. There is nothing compelling about external voices. They mean very little more than zero. What really counts is intimacy. That is the focus of all my posts, which, if you are adequately intimate your self, will be acknowledged, and will be reflected in your writing to me, which so far is not the case.

Let us recap what I have said so far, with a little more detail:
  • A powerful aspect of every question one asks is that the answer they are seeking is hidden inside the question. With openness we can discover the answer for ourselves.
  • Reactivity and anger requires attention. The sort of attention required is often hard for the reactive individual to give them self, because of the very reactivity cycles being displayed. Hence, the useful function of a counsellor as a guide in the process. One can see, in the response this suggestion garnered, exactly how hard it really is to treat this particularly insular brand of reactivity.
  • Pre-requisites for giving and receiving advice are redundant.
  • None of this is personal.

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Webwanderer
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:55 am

peas wrote:Everyone's posts are well worth 'considering'. But let us not mistake what that means.
There is nothing compelling about external voices. They mean very little more than zero.
I have written a good deal about the nature of meaning in our lives in other threads of late. These quotes of yours above, the rest of this post, and much of your other postings, are quite evident in how you apply meaning to those events and conditions that arise in your life. The meaning you apply, even if that application is the meaning of no meaning as you suggest here, is reflected in your perspective in life. That perspective is then expressed in your dialog's. It seems clear to most responders.

While you say: "None of this is personal", I would suggest that it is all quite personal. We live no other life than our own. It is true for all of us - at least as experienced from this physical human adventure. Personal - uniqueness of being in our humanness - is personal in our individualized perception of our experience. Sure, there are many who claim a perspective of no-self. But this seems to be just another type of identification with a specific thought structure. Maybe even a bit of a thought trap. Those who do so still let fly with endless pronouns of self reference that seem inescapable.

I doubt this will mean much to you, especially in light of your quotes above about your application of meaning. Your statements do seem to reflect a rather closed state of mind to external information. Maybe not, but that is how it comes across. Do consider however, that what meaning we apply and perceive through creates much of our life experience. And also consider, that in a reality of Infinite Conscious Beingness, there really is no such thing as external. It seems more likely that Life speaks to us how it will and from where it will, and it is incumbent upon we unique perspectives to be open to insight regardless of its apparent origin.

WW

dijmart
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by dijmart » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:41 am

WW,

I think your post hit the nail on the head!
Take what you like and leave the rest.

Enlightened2B
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by Enlightened2B » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:52 am

Webwanderer wrote: While you say: "None of this is personal", I would suggest that it is all quite personal. We live no other life than our own. It is true for all of us - at least as experienced from this physical human adventure. Personal - uniqueness of being in our humanness - is personal in our individualized perception of our experience. Sure, there are many who claim a perspective of no-self. But this seems to be just another type of identification with a specific thought structure.
This is so incredibly awesome. Great post WW.

peas
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Re: Tired of the play

Post by peas » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:13 am

We are seeing some good egoic patterns and tests in this particular thread.

There is a need to stand firm in a mental position only when there is something illusory to gain or lose. It is only the mind that needs this kind of attention and support. It is a great test, in intimacy, to feel internally what is going on when there is support for your ideas. Is there a feeling of euphoria? Do you feel understood?

Equally, when there is resistance to your ideas, what internally is felt? Is it loss? Do you feel misunderstood?

This is what I mean by intimacy. There is meaning in what is written. It is meaning that goes beyond the words, for they are entirely limited by the mind that interprets them.

This has been a wonderful opportunity to go deeper, including for me.

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