Consciousness AND the now

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums

Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:35 pm

My first topic here,
Read 'the power of the now' 14 years ago. That book, plus a new earth are alway's around somewhere.
4 years later, end 2003 i traveled to India and got an address with me from a person living in Bombay whom i never heard about.
Arriving at his house the first day and joining the satsang with more or less 25 people made me have a kind of circuit breakdown as newcomers are invited to sit in front of that man, they might have some questions.
Now knowing what it was all about i agreed to sit in front. Rather exciting though, especially when the guru himself asked me questions since i had none! As a result i left totally confused after two day's, excited to discover India for the first time, but i bough a book first at this man's home. 'Confusion no more' seemed to be the perfect Title. One months later i came back with a loth of questions and stayed three weeks in Bombay visiting Ramesh every day! :-)

Back home in Belgium two months later it started to dawn on me that there was a lot of similarity with Eckhart Tolle. And indeed, see this article that i want to share: http://lifepositive.com/consciousness-and-the-now/

Begins with a picture of them both, at Ramesh's Balsekar home in India / Bombay.
on the left Ramesh (passed meanwhile) and Eckhart Tolle on the right.

Quote:
'Being grounded in Ramesh’s teaching, I could truly understand Eckhart’s. If, as Ramesh would say, everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’. ‘Total acceptance of what ‘is’ is equivalent to ‘being in the now’. The ‘now’ being Vertical Time (‘what-is’), and not the involvement in horizontal time (‘what-should-be’).

Both teachings eventually bring you to the same spot: the ‘I Am’ – impersonal awareness of being. Ramesh’s teaching addresses the ego (the ‘me’) and exposes the fraud of doership, thus pointing towards impersonal functioning in the waking state, without involvement of the ‘me’. Similiarly, Eckhart’s teaching brings you to the ‘I Am’, the conscious presence – the ‘now’. I was hardly surprised to find out that Nisargadatta Maharaj’s bestselling spiritual classic, I Am That, was on Eckhart’s recommended reading list. In fact, one would be right to consider Eckhart as a teacher in the non-dualist tradition
'.

Some typical quotes from both:
Eckhart: 'The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the thinker'.
Ramesh: 'You are not the doer of your actions, you have no free will'.
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
User avatar
Boni
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:31 am

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby dijmart » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:32 am

I really enjoyed your post and the article thanks for posting it. :D I don't know anything really about Ramesh, but will be looking him up! The no doer, no free will stuff has been setting in recently, but not with complete clarity, so I won't comment further about that.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2085
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:58 am

@dijmart: thanks for your reaction! Makes me very very happy! :D
If you want to know why so happy, have a look at my introduction. I managed to stand firm in a intellectual Lion cage for a mont and feels like i'm on holiday here now. Arrived on coconut island, waiting for the next cocktail brought by a friendly islander who understands the story of the truman show (youtube trailer). :D :wink:
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
User avatar
Boni
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:31 am

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby dijmart » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:30 am

Boni wrote:@dijmart: thanks for your reaction! Makes me very very happy! :D
If you want to know why so happy, have a look at my introduction. I managed to stand firm in a intellectual Lion cage for a mont and feels like i'm on holiday here now. Arrived on coconut island, waiting for the next cocktail brought by a friendly islander who understands the story of the truman show (youtube trailer). :D :wink:


I read the other thread, boy you were getting slammed by that other forum, yikes. :shock: Mostly when I've felt beat up posting here is, because at that time my ego was needing a good shake and rattle. So, in the end it was all good, just took me a minute to see it. :D Once I saw it, clearly, it was like Ahhhhhhh!

The free will topic has been on this forum before and I personally don't have a desire to discuss it on open forum, at the moment, but you could PM me if you like, but as I said I don't have complete clarity, because I still have questions that rattle around in my head about it. But, I'm kinda leaving a "loose" view on things right now, not solidifying anything that could be called a "belief". Perhaps, you have more clarity about it then I do?
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2085
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Phil2 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:26 am

Boni wrote:Eckhart: 'The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the thinker'.
Ramesh: 'You are not the doer of your actions, you have no free will'.


Thanks for this interesting article Boni. I particularly loved Eckhart's comment after the meeting : " Eckhart laughed and just said, “Indian gurus talk a lot!

:lol:

Personally I see no difference between those teachings, but it appears that Ramesh tried to 'defend' his 'theories' while Eckhart did not try to be 'right', he just stayed in stillness and attentive listening, presence ...

I think you can always argument ad infinitum on spiritual teachings because truth is often paradoxical, it always depends if you speak from a relative or an absolute point of view.

Ramana Maharshi himself said that the world can be considered as real (as a manifestation of the Self) and also as unreal (or illusion, if it is considered separate from the Self). So this is an endless and useless debate.

Now of course, there is something else in this article, when the writer says that people prefer to hear that they can 'do' something. And it is true that ego likes that, ego wants to be a 'doer' and we always look for 'methods' or 'theories', ego feels safe when he is 'in control' of things ... but in fact if we are not the thinker, then there can be no 'doer' because only the 'thinker' is the 'doer' ... what we are ultimately is formless awareness, and awareness 'does' nothing ... only ego is the 'doer' ...

So yes, there is no 'free will', because 'will' (which comes from ego, the thinker) cannot be free ... but there is 'freedom' ... when there is no more personal 'will' ... hence no ego ... total surrender to 'what is' ... this is freedom ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
Phil2
 
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:06 pm

dijmart wrote: The free will topic has been on this forum before and I personally don't have a desire to discuss it on open forum, at the moment, but you could PM me if you like, but as I said I don't have complete clarity, because I still have questions that rattle around in my head about it. But, I'm kinda leaving a "loose" view on things right now, not solidifying anything that could be called a "belief".

Ramesh used to say: the conversations we are having - make no mistake - is fresh conditioning.
youtube - The rule of life - fresh conditioning

dijmart wrote:Perhaps, you have more clarity about it then I do?

i do have clarity about it :-)
it's all inside next quote from Ramesh Balsekar.

"Consciousness is all there is. So 'who' is to know or seek 'what'? All there is is the impersonal functioning of Consciousness, or God, reflecting within Itself the totality of manifestation. Live life making decisions and accepting the consequences as if you have free will knowing it is Consciousness seeking, doing, living deciding..."

But offcourse i don't expect you to have clarity after reading this. Or it should be in your destiny that it happens right away after reading this, which is not impossible. Af flash of instant understanding. :-)
It surely would not have given me any clarity in the beginning (10 years ago) when i visited Ramesh for the first time in Bombay / India without knowing anything about him or what he stood for. It made me only more confused then al already was about life in general. I was then, as i learned from Ramesh, one of the many miserable spiritual seekers and only the one who made me act like that would be able to stop it. Not me, that was not in my power.
I didn't get it at all what he was talking about and to whom he was pointing to. I bought one book at his place and left for a month.
Book > Confusion No More: For the Spiritual Seeker

quote:
'Many spiritual seekers today are confused. They imagine enlightenment as a state of perfect peace entirely detached from worldly things, and feel disappointed or inadequate when they don’t attain that ideal. Ramesh S. Balsekar, a self-realized sage whose teachings have reached thousands, offers a down-to-earth message that corrects this misunderstanding. With eloquence and humor, he shows how spirituality and daily life can exist in harmony. We conquer our confusion when we accept that whatever exists in the moment is precisely as it’s supposed to be, according to the Cosmic Law that is forever beyond the grasp of the human intellect. With jargon-free simplicity, he explains how to find true peace by learning to perceive the oneness of all things'.
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
User avatar
Boni
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:31 am

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:53 pm

Phil2 wrote:Thanks for this interesting article Boni. I particularly loved Eckhart's comment after the meeting : " Eckhart laughed and just said, “Indian gurus talk a lot!
:lol:

My pleasure! :-)
Yes, that's a lovely comment from Eckhart after the meeting. I had to laugh immediately as well, since it was so true for Ramesh but also for other advaita teachers.

Phil2 wrote:Personally I see no difference between those teachings, but it appears that Ramesh tried to 'defend' his 'theories' while Eckhart did not try to be 'right', he just stayed in stillness and attentive listening, presence ...

indeed, there is no difference other then a parallel track. As said on top in the article: Both paths are like railway tracks – they will never come together but will eventually reach the same destination.
I would have loved it to be there when 'the greatest show on earth had begun'. :-)

Phil2 wrote:I think you can always argument ad infinitum on spiritual teachings because truth is often paradoxical, it always depends if you speak from a relative or an absolute point of view.

Indeed. Nothing can be said so there is alway's more to say.
(quote Wayne Liquorman - publisher Ramesh's books in the US).
Or like Karl Renz uses to say: the sport of existence. inspite of not needing it, it has to happen any way...(advaita-talks).

Phil2 wrote:Ramana Maharshi himself said that the world can be considered as real (as a manifestation of the Self) and also as unreal (or illusion, if it is considered separate from the Self). So this is an endless and useless debate.

I've copy pasted this one to the freethinker forum where they are still discussing in a pure materialistic philosophical way about free will / destiny.
:-)
thx

Phil2 wrote:Now of course, there is something else in this article, when the writer says that people prefer to hear that they can 'do' something. And it is true that ego likes that, ego wants to be a 'doer' and we always look for 'methods' or 'theories', ego feels safe when he is 'in control' of things ... but in fact if we are not the thinker, then there can be no 'doer' because only the 'thinker' is the 'doer' ... what we are ultimately is formless awareness, and awareness 'does' nothing ... only ego is the 'doer' ...

Indeed, that's my conclusion too.
if we are not the thinker, then there can be no 'doer' because only the 'thinker' is the 'doer'.
:-)
Then everything is a Divine happening as the Buddha described it:
"Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof".

Phil2 wrote:So yes, there is no 'free will', because 'will' (which comes from ego, the thinker) cannot be free ... but there is 'freedom' ... when there is no more personal 'will' ... hence no ego ... total surrender to 'what is' ... this is freedom ...

And then it comes to this: If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
R. Balsekar.

So easy here in this forum.
No more victories over others. And if they happen anywhere - ego-clashes - what is human and part of the Devine hypnosis then this is lovely to remember:

'Victories over others will make one feel strong.
But the understanding that all actions are divine happenings,
and not the doing by someone, is a victory over oneself that makes one all-powerfull in the peace that follows
.'
R. Balsekar.

greetings all,
Boni
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
User avatar
Boni
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:31 am

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby slow ride » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:36 pm

Why do you Belgians keep talking about a doer?

It's an imaginary world.

Nobody's really doing anything.
slow ride
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:34 pm

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:48 pm

@slow ride:
But you live in that imaginary world and deeds are done through the three-dimensional object that you are isn't it?
For me it's no imagination. I see text showing up here, posted by a person who gave himself a anonymous forum name.
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
User avatar
Boni
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:31 am

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby slow ride » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:59 am

Then you embrace separation, not just dualism, but multitudinousism...
If that leads you to peace and joy, please report back!
I've never yet known or heard of anybody for whom that has been the case, but you may well be the first to find the way by that road.
There must be many paths.
Bon chance.
slow ride
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:34 pm

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby dijmart » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:26 am

Some questions that rattle around are, what about the child molester, serial murderer, heroin addict/alcoholic? Was there really no choice? none?

So, on one hand I know that all is consciousness, the Self ultimately. But relatively there seems to be some degree of choice or is everything choice-less, even me typing this very post. So, an example to the extreme, if I pick up an ax and killed my neighbor, then that was meant to happen?

It seems like once awake and aware, then the choice of my reaction or non reaction, is moment by moment. But if I was destined to kill and now am conscious and aware, would the act of killing still happen?
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2085
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:42 am

slow ride wrote:Then you embrace separation, not just dualism, but multitudinousism...
If that leads you to peace and joy, please report back!

I don't know what you are talking about.
I am a programmed body mind organism named Boni by my physical parents and i am acting as if i have a free will. So nothing has changed on the outside.

dijmart wrote:Some questions that rattle around are, what about the child molester, serial murderer, heroin addict/alcoholic? Was there really no choice? none?

no, none, it was meant to happen.

dijmart wrote:So, on one hand I know that all is consciousness, the Self ultimately. But relatively there seems to be some degree of choice or is everything choice-less, even me typing this very post. So, an example to the extreme, if I pick up an ax and killed my neighbor, then that was meant to happen?

Even you typing and posting your post and me replying was meant to be.
There is really no exception at all.

dijmart wrote:So, an example to the extreme, if I pick up an ax and killed my neighbor, then that was meant to happen?

Unless you were programmed to pick up an ax and kill your neighbor it wil never happen.
Starting to believe you have a free will won't make any difference.
A serial killer won't stop killing when he learns he has a no free will. He will kill anyway. Free will or not.
Somebody who has never been able to kill anything, will never kill whatever, even if he starts believing he or she has no free will.

dijmart wrote: It seems like once awake and aware, then the choice of my reaction or non reaction, is moment by moment. But if I was destined to kill and now am conscious and aware, would the act of killing still happen?

If it was your destiny to really wake up from the Divine hypnosis you were in, then the act of killing might stop... or not, depends from your destiny once more. But only the cosmos knows what your destiny is. No three-dimensional object on earth knows your destiny.
Would be very original if you became an enlightened killer isn't it! :D
You could share your unconditional love and stillness first with your neighbor and then chop his head of!
End up in jail (if destined) and teach there about Consciousness AND the now. God's mysterious ways.

For ending, let me quote from: Osho on Destiniy and Free Wil.

'Our lives are both predestined and they are not. Both yes and no. And both answers are true for all questions about life. In a way, everything is predetermined. Whatever is physical in you, material, whatever is mental, is predetermined. But something in you constantly remains undetermined, unpredictable. That something is your consciousness.

If you are identified with your body and your material existence, in the same proportion you are determined by cause and effect. Then you are a machine. But if you are not identified with your material existence, with either body or mind – if you can feel yourself as something separate, different, above and transcendent to body-mind – then that transcending consciousness is not predetermined. It is spontaneous, free.

Consciousness means freedom; matter means slavery. So it depends on how you define yourself. If you say, ”I am only the body,” then everything about you is completely determined. A person who says that man is only the body cannot say that man is not predetermined. Ordinarily, persons who do not believe in such a thing as consciousness also do not believe in predetermination.

Persons who are religious and believe in consciousness ordinarily believe in predetermination. So what I am saying may look very contradictory. But still, it is the case. A person who has known consciousness has known freedom. So only a spiritual person can say there is no determination at all. That realization comes only when you are completely unidentified with the body. If you feel that you are just a material existence, then no freedom is possible.'

With matter, no freedom is possible...
(more in link)
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
User avatar
Boni
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:31 am

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby dijmart » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:03 am

Boni wrote:
dijmart wrote: It seems like once awake and aware, then the choice of my reaction or non reaction, is moment by moment. But if I was destined to kill and now am conscious and aware, would the act of killing still happen?


If it was your destiny to really wake up from the Divine hypnosis you were in, then the act of killing might stop... or not, depends from your destiny once more. But only the cosmos knows what your destiny is. No three-dimensional object on earth knows your destiny.
Would be very original if you became an enlightened killer isn't it! :D
You could share your unconditional love and stillness first with your neighbor and then chop his head of!
End up in jail (if destined) and teach there about Consciousness AND the now. God's mysterious ways.


Very funny! :lol:

Anyways, what I was getting at was along the lines of what Ramana has said about after self realization Karma ends. I hear what you're saying, but, when reading the link you gave I found this, which seems to confirm what Ramana has said-

"Buddha used to say, ”Provide the cause, and the effect will be there.” This is the world of cause and effect in which everything is determined. If you act with total consciousness, an altogether different situation exists. Then everything is moment to moment. Consciousness is a flow; it is not static. It is life itself, so it changes. It is alive. It goes on expanding; it goes on becoming new, fresh, young. Then, your acts will be spontaneous."


And,

".. when a person becomes enlightened, a new phenomenon begins to happen. Acts are no longer connected with past acts. Any act, now, is connected only with his consciousness. It comes from his consciousness not from the past. That is why an enlightened person cannot be predicted."

Therefore, it would seem that determinism would no longer apply. But of course at this stage there is no individual doer as such and no one to have free will, only freedom. So, it's very paradoxical and can lead to misunderstanding depending on the perspective/view one has at the time.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2085
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Phil2 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:34 am

Boni wrote:I am a programmed body mind organism named Boni by my physical parents


This is an erroneous identity created by conditioned thought ... what you are ultimately is formless awareness ... and all forms appear/manifest in the space of this formless awareness ...

"If you are identified with your body and your material existence, in the same proportion you are determined by cause and effect. Then you are a machine. But if you are not identified with your material existence, with either body or mind – if you can feel yourself as something separate, different, above and transcendent to body-mind – then that transcending consciousness is not predetermined. It is spontaneous, free."
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
Phil2
 
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:49 pm

dijmart wrote:
Boni wrote:Would be very original if you became an enlightened killer isn't it! :D
You could share your unconditional love and stillness first with your neighbor and then chop his head of!
End up in jail (if destined) and teach there about Consciousness AND the now. God's mysterious ways.

Very funny! :lol:

imagining this was very hilarious for me too. :lol:
I must say, it was a very difficult question to answer. Didn't know what to answer first. So i thought about what Ramesh would have replied. He was very funny, each sat-satsang there was laughter in the air.

dijmart wrote:".. when a person becomes enlightened, a new phenomenon begins to happen....

I know these kind of sayings, Ramana used them, Osho used them, may spiritual teachers use them.
I have been reading them for 10 years.
It so happened that it was part of my utterly confusion (and destiny) in becoming a spiritual seeker.
I wanted to be so desperately enlightened.

Now i realize, thank to Ramesh, that there is no one to become enlightened.
For me, understanding that was 'enlightenment' itself.Confusion no more.

"Self-realisation is the total realization that there is no one to realize (or achieve) anything".
Ramesh S.Balsekar


dijmart wrote:Therefore, it would seem that determinism would no longer apply. But of course at this stage there is no individual doer as such and no one to have free will, only freedom. So, it's very paradoxical and can lead to misunderstanding depending on the perspective/view one has at the time.

it is indeed very paradoxical.
That's why there are so many miserable spiritual seekers. Miserable, because they don't know what they are seeking.
Have you ever been in India? If not, the place to be for meeting confused Western spiritual seekers. Most of them are looking for an enlightened guru, checking around if somebody can give a tip where to find one.
They imagine enlightenment as a state of perfect peace entirely detached from worldly things, and feel disappointed or inadequate when they don’t attain that ideal. I was one of them.

Phil2 wrote:
Boni wrote:I am a programmed body mind organism named Boni by my physical parents


This is an erroneous identity created by conditioned thought ... what you are ultimately is formless awareness ... and all forms appear/manifest in the space of this formless awareness ...

That is not more an erroneous identity by any means then what you say i am.

******************************************

Ramesh cleverly describes a human being as a computer. The hardware is the product of the parents’ consummation so that most of the external physical features come from either parent. The software is contributed by the Source. Since birth this miniature computer is conditioned by parents, teachers, professors, mentors, temples and churches and by what he read and experienced since young. Each human being is therefore a uniquely programmed computer with specific reactions to innumerable inputs. There are at least seven billion such computers in the world. When the Source puts in an input into one of these computers (human beings), there will be a uniquely programmed output from this human computer. No other computer will give the same output. Whether this computer is an ordinary man or a sage, the output will be the same. That means enlightenment does not alter the emotional reaction of the sage: he is still subjected to anger, fear and compassion if these are the features in his soft ware. An input could be a thought or hearing of some words uttered by someone. It could be a scene he saw. All these inputs are beyond him. The outputs are the automatic reaction from his body-mind computer to the inputs. Both inputs and outputs are beyond his control. He is not in charge of the situation.

Most Buddhists and Hindus will object to this conclusion.
I realize, you being ultimately 'formless awareness' might object this too.
You and they would expect much more love, compassion and wisdom in a sage, whilst anger, fear, pride and greed would have almost been eliminated. However Ramesh would like us to believe that the arising of fear and its reaction of running away is part of the programming and conditioning of the computer. So running away from danger in a sage is entirely within the character of a sage if he is programmed so. Crying out in pain (“Father, why hast thou forsaken me?”) is also normal for a sage like Jesus. But a sage should not exhibit greed, anger, pride and deceit. When a monk was told that even Jesus cried out in pain at the cross, he retorted: “But Jesus was never enlightened!

A sage is a human computer who has eliminated the sense of doership, but not the ego. The ego is required to live out the remaining years of his life span. The sense of doership is the thinking mind that involves horizontal thinking of regret of the past and fear of the future. It also means that the sage does not accept new conditioning. He is using mostly old conditioning, which is composed of his genes (DNA) and his early programming.

The sage now concludes that no action is my action or anybody’s action. All action is a divine happening through some human computer. All actions are brought about by the Source or God through human computers, which are uniquely programmed for those actions. If an individual ego tries to swim against this flow of life, he will incur pain and experience suffering. The sage also experiences pain and suffering. Having lost the sense of doership his reaction is different. He enjoys a meal, but does not ask for a repeat of that meal, as there is no thinking mind. In suffering pain he does not blame someone else for the pain, as it is incurred by the Source.

******************************************

So this is the railway track from Ramesh Balsekar, a non-duality, advaita teacher.
This path will never come together with Eckhart Tolle's path, but will eventually they reach the same destination.
Let me tell you that Ramesh Balsekar was the daily interpreter of his guru Nisargadatta Maharaj’s, who didn't speak a word English but had many many Western visitors. Thanks to Ramesh, graduated in England, the talks went smoothly.
Even before Maharaj’s death in 1981, Balsekar was authorised to speak on Nisargadatta’s behalf.

I was surprised to find out that Nisargadatta Maharaj’s bestselling spiritual classic, I Am That, was on Eckhart’s recommended reading list. In fact, one would be right to consider Eckhart as a teacher in the non-dualist tradition.
All books, i am that, Ramesh's and Tolle's book are around me everywhere.
Especially 'i am that' i'm reading on a daily bases last week.

So i study, become inspired by both teaching track's. There is no contradiction at all.
Being a unique programmed body mind organism or formless awareness; both concepts we can use.
Who cares???
:-)
See story:

"Every month the disciple faithfully sent his Master an account of his progress.
In the first month he wrote: "I feel an expansion of consciousness and experience my oneness with the universe."
The Master glanced at the note and threw it away.

The following month, this is what he had to say: "I have finally discovered that the Divine is present in all things."
The Master seemed disappointed.

The third month the disciple's words enthusiastically exclaimed: "The mystery of the One and the many have been revealed to my wondering gaze."
The master shook his head and again threw the letter away.

The next letter said: "No one is born, no one lives, and no one dies, for the ego-self is not."
The master threw his hands up in utter despair.

After that a month passed by, then two, then five months -- and finally a whole year without another letter.
The Master thought it was time to remind his disciple of his duty to keep him informed of his spiritual progress.
Then the disciple wrote back: "Who cares?"
When the Master read those words a look of great satisfaction spread over his face
".

thanks to Ramesh' book with the same title: Who Cares?!
He has written many books. http://www.rameshbalsekar.com/books.html
'i ve got them all. So true what Eckhart commented: "Indian gurus talk a lot!"
:lol:
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
User avatar
Boni
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:31 am

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest