imagining this was very hilarious for me too.
Yes, it was funny, but it didn't seem realistic to be honest.
Same for me
But on the other hand, a killer who becomes conscious, be it in jail, is possible.
But also, when somebody woke up, became self-realized, that is no guaranty for not taking an ax and kill somebody.
Easy to imagine a situation of self-defending, even attacking - first strike - the enemy, if ordered so by the army-general under who's command he is.
Being 'self-realized' is no resignation letter or permit for the army or any other armed service!
Hilarious isn't it.
dijmart wrote: It's these difficult questions that have made me hesitant, at this time, to really take a concrete stance on the subject, because to say, if it was predestined from birth it will happen no matter what, doesn't sound right.
To me that sounds totally right!
I arrived in India (could have been anywhere) 10 years ago not knowing anything about advaita - i even never heard that name and a short-circuit in my brains happened! Did if prevent me from suffering? No, not at all. 5 years ago another personal crisis started as a result from a ordinary passionated relationship. Calm down pills were needed for the first time in my life! LOL!
Does this mean i wasn't self-realized yet?
Not at all! Does is mean anything else? No, it was what is was. No more no less.
It is very simpel, there is no one to become self-realized. The 'me' is an illusion. How could any illusionary 'me' become self-realized?
dijmart wrote:For if one awakens to their true nature well that changes quite a lot.
Since you have read what ik just wrote, what should be the change you think?
But one could argue that the awakening was meant to happen, hence the changes, right? So, that takes one back to the beginning.
Indeed, awakening is meant to happen or not to certain three-dimensional objects.
If the awaking happens, there is no 'me' anymore to realize that. That human, a body-mind-organism, who was chosen by the Source to become self-realized will only become what he /she alway's was. He or she wakes up from Devine hypnosis.
Enlightenment means the end of conceptualizing, seeing the phenomenal universe without judgment. Being what you were before you got born
So you better reach out to become rich or something else you want most, then you still can enjoy what you obtained!
When you become self-realized, you as a fictitious 'me' does not excist anymore!
There is only what is in the moment. But still an ego, otherwise the sage couldn't function anymore. He would not respond to his name.
The point of posting this quote wasn't to discuss "enlightenment" per se, but the rest of the quote..."
I know, that's due the limitation of a forum.
".. when a person becomes enlightened, a new phenomenon begins to happen. Acts are no longer connected with past acts. Any act, now, is connected only with his consciousness. It comes from his consciousness not from the past. That is why an enlightened person cannot be predicted."
Any acts, 'enlightened' or not are alway's connected with consciousness. Consciousness is al there is
Or spoken in the words of E.T.: There is only now.
Not to much confusing riding on these both railroad tracks at the same time?
I know, it's all a matter of words. It's question of how we use language.
Words, being merely the product of temporal conceptualization, have only the most limited usefulness. They can point to or describe a mango, but they can neither yield its flavor nor alleviate anyone's hunger.
- When you hear another living top advaita master like Tony Parsons ( i still have / want to meet him), he will even use other concepts: All there is, is energy
I can recommend this interview with him:
Youtube - Tony Parsons: Wonderfully Gloriously Meaningless
To me - seen my history in chasing it - enlightenment is / was a 'dangerous' word
I know, Eckhart on one railroad track, uses the word 32 times in the power of now (easy to count in the pdf version).
But also say's it is an abstract mental concept, an image of who one wants to be, not realizing one is it already.
'We cannot make it a goal. Goal implies future. That is the dilemma of all spiritual seekers.
We are already enlightened, we just need to realize it. We are already fully ourself, we are already Divine, timeless, eternal in our essence. Everything else is on the level of form, it's a dance, a game, a play of form.
Quote from Youtube - eckhart about enlightenment
In India it is called the dance of Kali
"the dance of Kali, the Divine mother, is life as it happens, from moment to moment, bringing about all aspects of the interconnected opposites
Seen from the railroad track of advaita; it's the same story: a person can never become enlightened. That's a myth they say. Not only Ramesh.
"Do you consider yourself as a spiritual seeker?
This was one of the first questions Ramesh asked me in winter '03-'04 when i first arrived at his home.
I said: yes!
Ramesh: What are you seeking?
and so on and so on.
I see now that Eckhart in 2008 spoke in the same Youtube - eckhart about enlightenment
about: "No more spiritual seeking! Intensity yes, but intensity that drives you into the now. Not an intensity that wants to actualize an imagined state. Me as the enlightened one, which you already are!
He must have met many confused Western spiritual seekers in India in 2002 when he was there, i arrived only one year later and was lucky to meet Ramesh.
From Eckharts Tolle's book 'the power of now' that i read three times in 2000, i didn't pick up yet 'no more seeking!'
I was not yet in my destiny then to stop being a miserable spiritual seeker!
dijmart wrote:...If Tolle would not have had his awakening, then he probably would have stayed at Uni, getting his education and then whatever he was conditioned to do. But instead he left and sat on a bench for two years, then became a spiritual teacher. Again, perhaps this was his destiny? But there really isn't any way to know?
For sure it was his destiny! why doubt that?
If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
E.T. is the living example in accepting what is and is therefore destined teaching it!
Have you seen Youtube - Sam Harris / Free Will
? A must see!
Now i realize, thank to Ramesh, that there is no one to become enlightened.
For me, understanding that was 'enlightenment' itself.Confusion no more.
"Self-realisation is the total realization that there is no one to realize (or achieve) anything".
I know this, however seeking is needed, until it's not.
Seeking is NOT needed. See me pointing to E.T. earlier in this post: 'No more spiritual seeking!
Seeking is HAPPENING, until it stops!
Only the One
who started it, will stop it, and that's not you! (R.B)
No, I have not been to India, hasn't been part of my destiny
I use to think enlightenment was perfect peace also and detachment from worldly things, but now I do not.
'now you do not
'. After reading my story chasing my own tail like a dog for almost 20 years?
That's what i answered Ramesh when he asked me if i considered myself as a spiritual seeker.
...That's what gets you stuck! Also, the assumption that that ego needs to be destroyed, then that becomes another goal, it's endless, the goals the ego tries to attain in the name of trying to get enlightened.
Did it get me stuck? Did i loose time? useless effort?
It's part of the 'LILA
' and it was meant to be.
That's the advantage of believing there is no free will for me. It brings me total acceptance of what was, is, will be.
It is God's will happening, not mine.
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)