Consciousness AND the now

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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby dijmart » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:19 pm

Boni wrote:imagining this was very hilarious for me too. :lol:
I must say, it was a very difficult question to answer. Didn't know what to answer first. So i thought about what Ramesh would have replied. He was very funny, each sat-satsang there was laughter in the air.


Yes, it was funny, but it didn't seem realistic to be honest. It's these difficult questions that have made me hesitant, at this time, to really take a concrete stance on the subject, because to say, if it was predestined from birth it will happen no matter what, doesn't sound right. For if one awakens to their true nature well that changes quite a lot. But one could argue that the awakening was meant to happen, hence the changes, right? So, that takes one back to the beginning. :lol:

dijmart wrote:[i]".. when a person becomes enlightened, a new phenomenon begins to happen....

I know these kind of sayings, Ramana used them, Osho used them, may spiritual teachers use them.
I have been reading them for 10 years.
It so happened that it was part of my utterly confusion (and destiny) in becoming a spiritual seeker.
I wanted to be so desperately enlightened.


The point of posting this quote wasn't to discuss "enlightenment" per se, but the rest of the quote: ".. when a person becomes enlightened, a new phenomenon begins to happen. Acts are no longer connected with past acts. Any act, now, is connected only with his consciousness. It comes from his consciousness not from the past. That is why an enlightened person cannot be predicted."

You can call it what you'd like (dropping the false self persona), but after this, it seems as though one is no longer governed by karma, past acts and therefore can not be predicted. Conditioning, body/mind , ect is still there, but not taken to be ultimately real any longer (only relatively real). This would seem to change the course of events that would have taken place if the awakening would not have happened. Example: If Tolle would not have had his awakening, then he probably would have stayed at Uni, getting his education and then whatever he was conditioned to do. But instead he left and sat on a bench for two years, then became a spiritual teacher. Again, perhaps this was his destiny? But there really isn't any way to know?


Now i realize, thank to Ramesh, that there is no one to become enlightened.
For me, understanding that was 'enlightenment' itself.Confusion no more.

"Self-realisation is the total realization that there is no one to realize (or achieve) anything".
Ramesh S.Balsekar


I know this, however seeking is needed, until it's not.

That's why there are so many miserable spiritual seekers. Miserable, because they don't know what they are seeking.
Have you ever been in India? If not, the place to be for meeting confused Western spiritual seekers. Most of them are looking for an enlightened guru, checking around if somebody can give a tip where to find one.
They imagine enlightenment as a state of perfect peace entirely detached from worldly things, and feel disappointed or inadequate when they don’t attain that ideal. I was one of them.


No, I have not been to India, hasn't been part of my destiny :lol: I use to think enlightenment was perfect peace also and detachment from worldly things, but now I do not. That's what gets you stuck! Also, the assumption that that ego needs to be destroyed, then that becomes another goal, it's endless, the goals the ego tries to attain in the name of trying to get enlightened.
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:33 pm

Great post above Boni! Each body is merely a 'computerized physical vehicle' for Source to express itself in. That's all the body is. Source expresses itself in everything. It's not just humans, it's all of life. Humans are merely self aware versions of Source because of their evolved brains. Everything we experience in the universe is alive and rich and full of Source at its core which is what we are at our core. There is nothing that is not Source. Even a tree has awareness, granted to a different degree than we can imagine. The earth itself is an alive ecosystem of life. Source IS life. That's what we are.
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:11 pm

Unless you were programmed to pick up an ax and kill your neighbor it wil never happen.
Starting to believe you have a free will won't make any difference.
A serial killer won't stop killing when he learns he has a no free will. He will kill anyway. Free will or not.
Somebody who has never been able to kill anything, will never kill whatever, even if he starts believing he or she has no free will.


And then one will see this also as a dream being dreamt by the dreamer based on their current level of awareness.

In terms of sh..... 'it happens' 'Thy will not my will be done' takes into account the awareness, capacity and/or willingness of all the players - not 'god's will' but 'thy' is all - everything and everyone in creation.

Willingness does not even come into play unless, or until there is awareness and capacity.

No one is 'programmed' in anything, their awareness might have them believe they are, and therein lays the lack of awareness which feeds in to lack of capacity, which determines lack of free will.

Only with awareness can you strengthen capacity and apply your will freely, knowingly. If one believes they and others are 'programmed' then that is their level of awareness, that level of awareness will determine perceptions of limitation on their own and others' (in reality endless, boundless, love without restriction) capacity.

ET:
“You cannot solve your problems on the thinking level, because that’s where they were created. Solutions come when you rise above your thoughts. I call that ‘beyond thought’, which is different than ignorance. Nor does it mean that you never think again, but it means that you are no longer a prisoner of your own mind.”

According to Eckhart Tolle, giving in to the now is the only path that leads to actual free will.

“Most people live in the delusion that they make decisions out of free will. In reality their actions are completely determined by their past. How you think, what you want and what you consider important are all determined by your upbringing, your culture, your religion – in short, by your concepts.

As long as you still think you are your mind, you have no free will.

Spiritually you are unconscious.

You may think you know what you want, but you don’t. It is only the conditioning of your mind that says: “This is what you need to have”. That’s not a choice, it’s mechanical.

Some people escape from this. Then it is suddenly as if there is more consciousness, which means that for the first time they truly experience free will. Only then can you take responsibility.”


The 'some people escape from this' is important. It means they transcend belief in the limitations, the 'programming'.

Responsibility is honest and authentic response ability.

A psychopath who has no way of processing empathy has no choice but to remain within the degrees of their 'capacity' in relating with others and serving their own needs, based on their own fears.

They simply do not think about the consequences of their actions on others with empathy - they do not know the experience of empathy as one who can process oxytocin does, therefore they do not have the capacity to feel and express empathy, or compassion for others - so the awareness and willingness aspects are mute in their choosing.

Those who do have the capacity and feign lack of it, do so in degrees of awareness of what and why they are choosing as they do in resistance to what is.

Some might blame their parents for their choices (or imagined lack of them).
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:50 pm

dijmart wrote:
Boni wrote:imagining this was very hilarious for me too.

Yes, it was funny, but it didn't seem realistic to be honest.

Same for me :lol:
But on the other hand, a killer who becomes conscious, be it in jail, is possible.
But also, when somebody woke up, became self-realized, that is no guaranty for not taking an ax and kill somebody.
Easy to imagine a situation of self-defending, even attacking - first strike - the enemy, if ordered so by the army-general under who's command he is.
Being 'self-realized' is no resignation letter or permit for the army or any other armed service!
Hilarious isn't it. :-)

dijmart wrote: It's these difficult questions that have made me hesitant, at this time, to really take a concrete stance on the subject, because to say, if it was predestined from birth it will happen no matter what, doesn't sound right.

To me that sounds totally right!
I arrived in India (could have been anywhere) 10 years ago not knowing anything about advaita - i even never heard that name and a short-circuit in my brains happened! Did if prevent me from suffering? No, not at all. 5 years ago another personal crisis started as a result from a ordinary passionated relationship. Calm down pills were needed for the first time in my life! LOL!
Does this mean i wasn't self-realized yet?
Not at all! Does is mean anything else? No, it was what is was. No more no less.
It is very simpel, there is no one to become self-realized. The 'me' is an illusion. How could any illusionary 'me' become self-realized? :-)

dijmart wrote:For if one awakens to their true nature well that changes quite a lot.

Since you have read what ik just wrote, what should be the change you think?

dijmart wrote:But one could argue that the awakening was meant to happen, hence the changes, right? So, that takes one back to the beginning. :lol:

Indeed, awakening is meant to happen or not to certain three-dimensional objects.
If the awaking happens, there is no 'me' anymore to realize that. That human, a body-mind-organism, who was chosen by the Source to become self-realized will only become what he /she alway's was. He or she wakes up from Devine hypnosis.
Enlightenment means the end of conceptualizing, seeing the phenomenal universe without judgment. Being what you were before you got born.
So you better reach out to become rich or something else you want most, then you still can enjoy what you obtained!
When you become self-realized, you as a fictitious 'me' does not excist anymore! :lol:
There is only what is in the moment. But still an ego, otherwise the sage couldn't function anymore. He would not respond to his name. :wink:

dijmart wrote:The point of posting this quote wasn't to discuss "enlightenment" per se, but the rest of the quote..."

I know, that's due the limitation of a forum.

dijmart wrote:".. when a person becomes enlightened, a new phenomenon begins to happen. Acts are no longer connected with past acts. Any act, now, is connected only with his consciousness. It comes from his consciousness not from the past. That is why an enlightened person cannot be predicted."

Any acts, 'enlightened' or not are alway's connected with consciousness. Consciousness is al there is.
Or spoken in the words of E.T.: There is only now.

Not to much confusing riding on these both railroad tracks at the same time? :-)
I know, it's all a matter of words. It's question of how we use language.
Words, being merely the product of temporal conceptualization, have only the most limited usefulness. They can point to or describe a mango, but they can neither yield its flavor nor alleviate anyone's hunger.

- When you hear another living top advaita master like Tony Parsons ( i still have / want to meet him), he will even use other concepts: All there is, is energy.
I can recommend this interview with him:
Youtube - Tony Parsons: Wonderfully Gloriously Meaningless

To me - seen my history in chasing it - enlightenment is / was a 'dangerous' word :-)
I know, Eckhart on one railroad track, uses the word 32 times in the power of now (easy to count in the pdf version).
But also say's it is an abstract mental concept, an image of who one wants to be, not realizing one is it already.
'We cannot make it a goal. Goal implies future. That is the dilemma of all spiritual seekers.
We are already enlightened, we just need to realize it. We are already fully ourself, we are already Divine, timeless, eternal in our essence. Everything else is on the level of form, it's a dance, a game, a play of form.

Quote from Youtube - eckhart about enlightenment

In India it is called the dance of Kali.
"the dance of Kali, the Divine mother, is life as it happens, from moment to moment, bringing about all aspects of the interconnected opposites."

Seen from the railroad track of advaita; it's the same story: a person can never become enlightened. That's a myth they say. Not only Ramesh.
"Do you consider yourself as a spiritual seeker?" :-)
This was one of the first questions Ramesh asked me in winter '03-'04 when i first arrived at his home.
I said: yes!
Ramesh: What are you seeking?
and so on and so on.

I see now that Eckhart in 2008 spoke in the same Youtube - eckhart about enlightenment about: "No more spiritual seeking! Intensity yes, but intensity that drives you into the now. Not an intensity that wants to actualize an imagined state. Me as the enlightened one, which you already are! "
:lol:
He must have met many confused Western spiritual seekers in India in 2002 when he was there, i arrived only one year later and was lucky to meet Ramesh. :lol:
From Eckharts Tolle's book 'the power of now' that i read three times in 2000, i didn't pick up yet 'no more seeking!'
I was not yet in my destiny then to stop being a miserable spiritual seeker! :lol: :lol: :lol:

dijmart wrote:...If Tolle would not have had his awakening, then he probably would have stayed at Uni, getting his education and then whatever he was conditioned to do. But instead he left and sat on a bench for two years, then became a spiritual teacher. Again, perhaps this was his destiny? But there really isn't any way to know?

For sure it was his destiny! why doubt that? :-)
If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’. (R.B.)
E.T. is the living example in accepting what is and is therefore destined teaching it!
Have you seen Youtube - Sam Harris / Free Will? A must see!

dijmart wrote:
Now i realize, thank to Ramesh, that there is no one to become enlightened.
For me, understanding that was 'enlightenment' itself.Confusion no more.
"Self-realisation is the total realization that there is no one to realize (or achieve) anything".
Ramesh S.Balsekar

I know this, however seeking is needed, until it's not.

Seeking is NOT needed. See me pointing to E.T. earlier in this post: 'No more spiritual seeking!'
Seeking is HAPPENING, until it stops! Only the One who started it, will stop it, and that's not you! (R.B)

dijmart wrote:No, I have not been to India, hasn't been part of my destiny :lol: I use to think enlightenment was perfect peace also and detachment from worldly things, but now I do not.

'now you do not'. After reading my story chasing my own tail like a dog for almost 20 years? :-)
That's what i answered Ramesh when he asked me if i considered myself as a spiritual seeker.

dijmart wrote:...That's what gets you stuck! Also, the assumption that that ego needs to be destroyed, then that becomes another goal, it's endless, the goals the ego tries to attain in the name of trying to get enlightened.

Did it get me stuck? Did i loose time? useless effort?
It's part of the 'LILA' and it was meant to be.
That's the advantage of believing there is no free will for me. It brings me total acceptance of what was, is, will be.
It is God's will happening, not mine.

greetings.
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:29 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Great post above Boni!

Thanks!
Enlightened2B wrote:Each body is merely a 'computerized physical vehicle' for Source to express itself in. That's all the body is...

i can see, the railway track Ramesh uses is very clear for you. :-)

smiileyjen101 wrote:No one is 'programmed' in anything, their awareness might have them believe they are, and therein lays the lack of awareness which feeds in to lack of capacity, which determines lack of free will.

Are you aware of the two parallel railway tracks? Did you read the whole topic carefully or are you just responding to the last posts?

From the link in my first opening-post - article- Consciousness and the now:
"Ultimately, each individual gravitates to the teaching that resonates deep within him.
Both paths are like railway tracks – they will never come together but will eventually
reach the same destination
".

smiileyjen101 wrote:Only with awareness can you strengthen capacity and apply your will freely, knowingly. If one believes they and others are 'programmed' then that is their level of awareness, that level of awareness will determine perceptions of limitation on their own and others' (in reality endless, boundless, love without restriction) capacity.

From the track of Ramesh, advaita in general: "who" is to be aware of what?"
You will anser 'me', aware of the world.
Then my next question is: Who are you?
From the track of advaita there is only a illusionary "me". A marionette, who thinks it has free will.
There is no one to wake up. Advaita is a rather radical communication. It is even not a teaching.

Note that is mentioned in the article what i have written (copy-pasted) earlier: in fact, one would be right to consider Eckhart as a teacher in the non-dualist (advaita) tradition.
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby dijmart » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:04 am

Boni wrote:
dijmart wrote:No, I have not been to India, hasn't been part of my destiny :lol: I use to think enlightenment was perfect peace also and detachment from worldly things, but now I do not.

'now you do not'. After reading my story chasing my own tail like a dog for almost 20 years? :-)


No, actually it has nothing to do with you, I've been posting on this forum since 2010. :)
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:18 am

@dijmart: ah, ok. :-)
Since nobody - only the source - knows how long one particle unique programmed body-mind-organisms has to seek for spiritual truth he / she will never find i couldn't know how long, or when the seeking was or stopped for you.

Reminds me to my early years of waking up. 23 years ago.
I joined a rebirting week-end course and the coach asked me what brought me to take part.
I answered: i am looking for myself.
He responding: So are you not there then?

I didn't know what he was talking about - totally confused as i was - but i also remember his body language and laughter expression on his face. :P
My rebirthing session in that weekend (being green and new) was kind of a hell. Something was home indeed, it took over the show. 'i' (small i) had been to long in control. :roll: :D
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby dijmart » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:46 am

Boni wrote:@dijmart: ah, ok. :-)
Since nobody - only the source - knows how long one particle unique programmed body-mind-organisms has to seek for spiritual truth he / she will never find i couldn't know how long, or when the seeking was or stopped for you.


The Self is realized, there is assimilation going on now. Old beliefs have crumbled or are crumbling...I can now say I don't know what i believe and I'm okay with that, I know what/who i AM.
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:19 am

dijmart wrote:The Self is realized, there is assimilation going on now. Old beliefs have crumbled or are crumbling...I can now say I don't know what i believe and I'm okay with that, I know what/who i AM.

That's fine.
I AM that i AM, which is the name of god.
Said at 6:10 in this voice-recording on youtube - Alan Watts ☮ The Way of Waking Up.

I love more in the recording very much, gave me goosebumps yesterday. Like this:
At 3:25: 'you won’t wake up until you feel you payed a price for it'.
At 3:53:"christianity makes you feel guilty for existing".
At 7:30: 'it’s a question fundamentally: do you define yourself as a victim of the world, or as the world?'
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby slow ride » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:30 am

Great you're digging Alan Watts, but be ye forewarned: Alan Watts is definitely NOT going to be speaking kindly to your heartfelt theory that we have no will and somebody is predeterminedly directing the whole thing.
Just a friendly warning since I introduced you to Alan.
Best be careful which Alan Watts lectures you listen to.
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:30 am

Are you aware of the two parallel railway tracks? Did you read the whole topic carefully or are you just responding to the last posts?

Yes, Yes, and no :wink:
I tend to think more in spider webs than limited 'tracks' but I understand the concept.

Have you managed to read the 'free will' topics that brought you here, or are you still buzzing from finding a new home?

Then my next question is: Who are you?

And my answer will be different each time you ask -
Hafiz: I am the hole in the flute through which the Christ (life) breath flows, listen to the music.

I am the Alpha and the Omega - I am the beginning and the end.

I am the wind, the ocean the trees the birds the animals the stars and every thing in between I am forever and always.

I am love. I am creation. I am god which is everything.

And so are you - if you only notice it.

Note that is mentioned in the article what i have written (copy-pasted) earlier: in fact, one would be right to consider Eckhart as a teacher in the non-dualist (advaita) tradition.

I wouldn't know, I cannot from this perspective say what would be right or wrong for anyone else in their understanding (standing under).

Have you read the section on Portals to the unmanifested, and the section on Aware doing, in ANE?

If so, what do you think of them, and from the quote above about the distinctions that ET was making about awareness couching whether free will and/or responsibility are 'real' or not?

According to Eckhart Tolle, giving in to the now is the only path that leads to actual free will.

“Most people live in the delusion that they make decisions out of free will. In reality their actions are completely determined by their past. How you think, what you want and what you consider important are all determined by your upbringing, your culture, your religion – in short, by your concepts.

As long as you still think you are your mind, you have no free will.

Spiritually you are unconscious.

You may think you know what you want, but you don’t. It is only the conditioning of your mind that says: “This is what you need to have”. That’s not a choice, it’s mechanical.

Some people escape from this. Then it is suddenly as if there is more consciousness, which means that for the first time they truly experience free will. Only then can you take responsibility.”
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Phil2 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:15 am

Boni wrote:I see now that Eckhart in 2008 spoke in the same Youtube - eckhart about enlightenment about: "No more spiritual seeking! Intensity yes, but intensity that drives you into the now. Not an intensity that wants to actualize an imagined state. Me as the enlightened one, which you already are! "
:lol:
He must have met many confused Western spiritual seekers in India in 2002 when he was there, i arrived only one year later and was lucky to meet Ramesh. :lol:
From Eckharts Tolle's book 'the power of now' that i read three times in 2000, i didn't pick up yet 'no more seeking!'
I was not yet in my destiny then to stop being a miserable spiritual seeker! :lol: :lol: :lol:



Well yes this is important to understand ... there is nothing to achieve, nothing to become ... we are already 'realized' or 'enlightened' ... any goal we project can only drive us in some future (time), outside of this presence that we already are ... here and now ...

As Mooji said "Forget about enlightenment" ... "nothing at all to do ... I tell you this is a trap ..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pS_wPeDxDQ
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:10 pm

slow ride wrote:Great you're digging Alan Watts, but be ye forewarned: Alan Watts is definitely NOT going to be speaking kindly to your heartfelt theory that we have no will and somebody is predeterminedly directing the whole thing.
Just a friendly warning since I introduced you to Alan.

Thanks again for introducing me to Alan Watts. I love him!

And thanks for the warning, but that's NO problem at all!
Ultimately there is no free will nor destiny!
Even i AM is a concept.
All there is, is energy (see link T. Parsons i posted), and even that is said to much, because
Nothing can be said, so there is alway's more to say (Wayne liquorman).
On the other hand: communication is happening from time to time isn't it...depending on one's destiny, character how much - limited or even not.
'Who cares'! :-)
So, i am not attached to any railway 'track'. I ride them all and can throw them all away.

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Are you aware of the two parallel railway tracks? Did you read the whole topic carefully or are you just responding to the last posts?

Yes, Yes, and no :wink:
I tend to think more in spider webs than limited 'tracks' but I understand the concept.”

That's fine then. You understand then there is nothing wrong in calling each human body a 'computerized physical vehicle' for Source to express itself. On the contrary, it can be very useful, depending on the teaching one comes across and one's mindset which can be a very sticky spider web, so sticky one is trapped in it. Can be trapped in idea's like free will or no free will, or anything else.
Then a particular guru (depending on one's destiny) is needed to set you free.

smiileyjen101 wrote:Have you managed to read the 'free will' topics that brought you here...

Yes i read it, it's only one page. Free Will (yet again) The essay that runstrails brings up is his first post http://www.advaita-vision.org/free-will/ is on my list to read.
something you want to point to in that topic? I see you posted there too.

smiileyjen101 wrote:
...or are you still buzzing from finding a new home?

I'm not really into finding something. The greatest gift till now was already given by slow ride mentioning Alan Watts. I'm listening on youtube to recordings and will buy some books.
The coming home was a metaphor for leaving a materialistic freethinkers-forum, where beautifully described by Alan Watts is reality: 'the Inability to accept the mystic experience is more than an intellectual handicap'.

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Boni: Then my next question is: Who are you?

And my answer will be different each time you ask -
Hafiz: I am the hole in the flute through which the Christ (life) breath flows, listen to the music.
I am the Alpha and the Omega - I am the beginning and the end.
I am the wind, the ocean the trees the birds the animals the stars and every thing in between I am forever and always.
I am love. I am creation. I am god which is everything.
And so are you - if you only notice it.

I would say you are a body-mind-organism programmed to give all these answers! :lol:
Who is this 'me' making up all this answers? Is there a 'me' anyway? No.
The 'best', or closest answer to the 'truth' given by this 'illusionary me' would be silence.
The shortest in words: 'i AM', with no need to fill in something after those two sounds, unless needed for practical functioning among human's.

But you and me are pointing to the same. We only think, express ourselves according to the track we're on. Which is not at all limited, if not sticked in it's glue. The spider who created the track will never be stuck in it, only it's victim's.

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Boni: Note that is mentioned in the article what i have written (copy-pasted) earlier: in fact, one would be right to consider Eckhart as a teacher in the non-dualist (advaita) tradition.

I wouldn't know, I cannot from this perspective say what would be right or wrong for anyone else in their understanding (standing under).

As i wrote before, what you read 'Yes, Yes, and no', Nisargadatta Maharaj’s bestselling spiritual classic, I Am That, is on Eckhart’s recommended reading list.

smiileyjen101 wrote:Have you read the section on Portals to the unmanifested, and the section on Aware doing, in ANE?”

I have read everything from E.T. and reread it from time to time. There is no contradiction at all...
smiileyjen101 wrote:...Some people escape from this. Then it is suddenly as if there is more consciousness, which means that for the first time they truly experience free will. Only then can you take responsibility.”

Even no contradiction with this.
I have said is before: "Both paths are like railway tracks – they will never come together but will eventually reach the same destination.
and will repost a third path for you:
Boni wrote:...Tony Parsons ( i still have / want to meet him), he will even use other concepts: All there is, is energy.
I can recommend this interview with him:
Youtube - Tony Parsons: Wonderfully Gloriously Meaningless

Tony is talking about 'The Open Secret', which is not new . . . and also it is. Its fundamental essence and content is to be found in the apparent history of seeking originating in Advaita Vedanta, Non-dualism, a particular Zen Buddhism and Christian mysticism.
Just another path - http://www.theopensecret.com leading to the same destination, where we already are, but in generally takes some time (a life time or more if meant so) to realize that.

Phil2 wrote:
Boni wrote:E.T: No more spiritual seeking! Intensity yes, but intensity that drives you into the now. Not an intensity that wants to actualize an imagined state. Me as the enlightened one, which you already are! "

Well yes this is important to understand ... there is nothing to achieve, nothing to become ... we are already 'realized' or 'enlightened' ... any goal we project can only drive us in some future (time), outside of this presence that we already are ... here and now ...

As Mooji said "Forget about enlightenment" ... "nothing at all to do ... I tell you this is a trap ..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pS_wPeDxDQ

Aaah! A 4th track. i love Mooji! Haven been visiting his satsangs for weeks in India / Tiruvannamalai. Didn't see this yet. Thx! Just heard him saying in it:
"All this knowledge that we acquire, called spiritual knowledge, is only a mirror, for the timeless tot see itself. And for what reason? For no other reason than it's fascinated with it's own recognition for some reason."
Great! gonna post this clip and quote on my Facebook! Thanks again!
I'm home on this forum! No freethinkers anymore for me :D
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Phil2 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:37 pm

Boni wrote:I'm home on this forum! No freethinkers anymore for me :D


lol ... there is no such thing as "free thinking" ... thought is always conditioned ... freedom can only be when thought is NOT ...

:lol:
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Consciousness AND the now

Postby Boni » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:57 pm

@Phil2: i'm still active in the dutch freethinkers topic about free will / destiny and linked to this topic openend by me, which resulted in me being blamed by them that 'many goeroe's, feelgooders have never proved and are thus unable to deliver remarkable innovative technical groundbreaking delights.
If (illusionary) "wisdom" does not lead to visible sustainable large-scale progression, then what's the benefit of it?
'

i'm having fun discussing with them meanwhile! It's a boxing game i can never win, but who cares?
Part of the sport of existence! The cosmic joke on earth like Osho -bhagwan used to say. :-)
Doing without doing, doing my 'duty' anyway, even if there is nothing in for me.
Life can be simple. :wink:
Last edited by Boni on Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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