Purpose

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Webwanderer
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Re: Purpose

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:17 pm

Phil2 wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:
I would agree that seeing LoA is fundamental to understand our true nature ... while I don't think that "intentional control" will help ... because 'control' - in any form it takes - can only come from ego (which always looks for more 'control' on things) hence separate yourself from your true nature ...

Real creative power can only arise when this need to control is totally dropped (ie. when ego is dropped) ... then creation arises out of love ... and not out of 'intentional control' ...
But that's the thing about LoA, it makes no distinctions in its effect. LoA is not about alignment. It's about belief and focus. It simply works to manifest the conditions reflective of that belief and focus. That's why depression, for example, is so difficult to shift. LoA, through underlying beliefs, keeps recreating the conditions and experience. It's the same with any entrenched condition. Change in conditions comes from a change in underlying beliefs, and that begins with a change in thinking or perspective.

I didn't like the word 'control' when I wrote it but I couldn't find a better one at the moment. Maybe 'expressed preference' is a better terminology. That said, what is choice but a type of control over experience? And as we all live through some version of ego, I'll not make ego an enemy. Rather I'll choose to see ego as a cooperative component within a greater reality. (That choice alone, as it becomes core belief, will set the stage for a preferable experience with/as ego and a healthy relationship with my own greater beingness. Applied LoA here.) The important thing is to recognize ego as a thought construct that is malleable to a greater understanding of the principles of life and being.

WW

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Re: Purpose

Post by slow ride » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:20 pm

Onceler wrote:
dijmart wrote:
I think it depends on what perspective the person is viewing life from. If they haven't transcended their suffering, made a shift in perspective, if they haven't discovered their true nature, then they won't understand what you mean. I think that once you've made the shift, hanging out in transcendence land is only satisfying for so long, as "slow ride" Has stated. At first, peace is a blessing and is enough in and of it self (maybe enough for that lifetime?), but as time ticks on...boredom! The full transformation, I think, is when you come back to your humanness and live the truth that you've discovered, no longer needing to escape into transcendence land. I'm not religious, but isn't that how Jesus lived? Fully engrossed in life, not off in a cave somewhere?
That's what I was trying to say.....brilliant. "The full transformation, I think, is when you come back to your humanness and live the truth that you've discovered, no longer needing to escape into transcendence land."

Although, who's to say that someone living an ordinary life can't do this? I would tend to agree about the importance of discovering ones true nature, but There may be many ways to discover "true nature" while being immersed in life.
Yeah, I also must give a big tip of the hat to dijmart here. Perfectly said. I add one tweak. The tweak of expectation. I expect some freakin' power to be flowing on the return to humanity. Not power to conjure stacks of money, no. But power to heal? Yes. A voice delivering super wisdom on situations? Yes! I expect the return to humanity to be empowered.

I'm hoping SDCK will be my magic unblocker of the flow...

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Re: Purpose

Post by runstrails » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:23 pm

Onceler wrote:

dijmart wrote:
I think it depends on what perspective the person is viewing life from. If they haven't transcended their suffering, made a shift in perspective, if they haven't discovered their true nature, then they won't understand what you mean. I think that once you've made the shift, hanging out in transcendence land is only satisfying for so long, as "slow ride" Has stated. At first, peace is a blessing and is enough in and of it self (maybe enough for that lifetime?), but as time ticks on...boredom! The full transformation, I think, is when you come back to your humanness and live the truth that you've discovered, no longer needing to escape into transcendence land. I'm not religious, but isn't that how Jesus lived? Fully engrossed in life, not off in a cave somewhere?



That's what I was trying to say.....brilliant. "The full transformation, I think, is when you come back to your humanness and live the truth that you've discovered, no longer needing to escape into transcendence land."

Although, who's to say that someone living an ordinary life can't do this? I would tend to agree about the importance of discovering ones true nature, but There may be many ways to discover "true nature" while being immersed in life.
Well said. Totally agree. I think all the seeking (in the myriad of ways we talk about on this forum) is necessary initially, but when one's true nature is known, then the primordial fear goes away and one is free to live a full human life (and embrace whatever shows up in that life). At this point, there seems to be very little need for transcending, seeking for more, or trying to manipulate life in any way.

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Re: Purpose

Post by kafi » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:29 pm

Jack,
you wrote about your contact to your guide and whether I have more advice on guidance.

I have created a new thread for this topic:
http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... 10&t=12728

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Re: Purpose

Post by dijmart » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:43 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:
Di wrote:"The full transformation, I think, is when you come back to your humanness and live the truth that you've discovered, no longer needing to escape into transcendence land."
I love this too and feel it. For me it's about harmony and balance more so than one or the other (as I feel you are saying here).
Yep, that's what I'm saying. Once our true nature is discovered, if we are out of alignment with that while embracing our humanness we feel it (like anyone else would), but I think the difference is we can, if we choose, make adjustments quicker to get back into alignment. So, we are the living embodiment of our true nature, as much as possible, while/during experiencing limitation through the body/mind physical structure we inhabit.
slow ride wrote: Yeah, I also must give a big tip of the hat to dijmart here. Perfectly said. I add one tweak. The tweak of expectation. I expect some freakin' power to be flowing on the return to humanity. Not power to conjure stacks of money, no. But power to heal? Yes. A voice delivering super wisdom on situations? Yes! I expect the return to humanity to be empowered.
You must believe you can do it, that you will do it and that it's already done. Most can't do this without a form of doubt entering into the equation. When Jesus healed, he asked the sick/disabled, do you believe? Of course, if they said no or didn't fully believe "Jesus" could heal them (which it wasn't really Jesus doing it), then it couldn't be done. Another words, their doubt, any doubt, would have prevented it.

So, you say you expect it, ok, but do you actually believe without a shadow of a doubt you can do it? ..Heal, hear the voice of wisdom, ect? And don't say to the universe "I want..." the word "want" will leave you in a state of "wanting". Say, "I'm a healer", "I hear the voice of wisdom", so on and so forth, powered by belief and the thought it is already done, then let it go... and see what happens. Don't obsess over it, that will create imbalance. Just gently reaffirm every once and awhile, that you can do it, you will do it AND it's already done.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

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Re: Purpose

Post by EnterZenFromThere » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:38 pm

dijmart wrote:if we are out of alignment with that while embracing our humanness we feel it (like anyone else would), but I think the difference is we can, if we choose, make adjustments quicker to get back into alignment. So, we are the living embodiment of our true nature, as much as possible, while/during experiencing limitation through the body/mind physical structure we inhabit.
Sounds like we're on the same page - well said :)

I guess the spiritual journey leads to increased sensitivity to alignment and focus in moving to and maintaining alignment.

When you say about being the living embodiment of our true nature it brings back a memory I have when speaking to a man about realising the self [apologies if I go off topic here]. Do you (and the others here) believe they are fully self-realised? Or partially self-realised? The man (I won't name him as it was a private conversation) said there are only a few hundred fully realised individuals on the planet right now. And another source I have says there have only ever been less than 10,000 throughout human history up to now. Sometimes I feel there isn't some point you reach where there is a huge leap - that there is just continual progress. But speaking with him and hearing others like him speak it seems there is a point where there is a literally embodiment that exceeds that of a partial realisation that it would be appropriate to call 'fully realising the self'. For him, he literally sees people who are enlightened as they have a halo of light around their heads - so he has a way of assessing the authenticity of another's claim's.

I guess I bring this up because I see a lot of people say about being self-realised here and I wonder to what extent they feel that it is the case. I don't mean this as a challenge to anyone. I have virtually no idea about the experience of anyone here. It's just that sometimes I feel like enlightenment is a dirty word and I don't want anything to do with it, but I wonder about the truth of what I have written above..

Musings,

Jack

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Re: Purpose

Post by runstrails » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:41 pm

Zen wrote: I guess I bring this up because I see a lot of people say about being self-realised here and I wonder to what extent they feel that it is the case. I don't mean this as a challenge to anyone. I have virtually no idea about the experience of anyone here. It's just that sometimes I feel like enlightenment is a dirty word and I don't want anything to do with it, but I wonder about the truth of what I have written above..
Hi Jack,
To me it depends on your definition of self-realization. A reasonable definition of self-realization could be: the realization of your true nature as awareness or aware reality or Self or Source or being (or whatever one calls it). I would say that many people on this forum are self-realized by that definition. Beyond self-realization there are continual insights and expansion, of course.

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Re: Purpose

Post by slow ride » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:05 pm

dijmart wrote:
EnterZenFromThere wrote:
Di wrote:"The full transformation, I think, is when you come back to your humanness and live the truth that you've discovered, no longer needing to escape into transcendence land."
I love this too and feel it. For me it's about harmony and balance more so than one or the other (as I feel you are saying here).
Yep, that's what I'm saying. Once our true nature is discovered, if we are out of alignment with that while embracing our humanness we feel it (like anyone else would), but I think the difference is we can, if we choose, make adjustments quicker to get back into alignment. So, we are the living embodiment of our true nature, as much as possible, while/during experiencing limitation through the body/mind physical structure we inhabit.
slow ride wrote: Yeah, I also must give a big tip of the hat to dijmart here. Perfectly said. I add one tweak. The tweak of expectation. I expect some freakin' power to be flowing on the return to humanity. Not power to conjure stacks of money, no. But power to heal? Yes. A voice delivering super wisdom on situations? Yes! I expect the return to humanity to be empowered.
You must believe you can do it, that you will do it and that it's already done. Most can't do this without a form of doubt entering into the equation. When Jesus healed, he asked the sick/disabled, do you believe? Of course, if they said no or didn't fully believe "Jesus" could heal them (which it wasn't really Jesus doing it), then it couldn't be done. Another words, their doubt, any doubt, would have prevented it.

So, you say you expect it, ok, but do you actually believe without a shadow of a doubt you can do it? ..Heal, hear the voice of wisdom, ect? And don't say to the universe "I want..." the word "want" will leave you in a state of "wanting". Say, "I'm a healer", "I hear the voice of wisdom", so on and so forth, powered by belief and the thought it is already done, then let it go... and see what happens. Don't obsess over it, that will create imbalance. Just gently reaffirm every once and awhile, that you can do it, you will do it AND it's already done.
Your post is a restatement of the basic disparate viewpoints we're having in this thread. What is the role of thinker? Role of knower? When you write "do you believe" I say "believe where, my knower or my thinker?" I'm pretty sure my knower believes. My thinker is just out of the way. You can not psych your self into it. There has to be a real flow of real power. I realize most people here want to "be in their journey" and don't want to address goals, or metaphysical destinations, or gasp, worst of all, real flow of real source, or even worse, double gasp, that source actually has its own action item here, that source must do the action of doing the flowing.

I can only conclude that source is trying to flow, that I have deep spiritual blockages that are yet to be remedied, that my immediate challenge is not psyching myself with my thinker, that my immediate task is finding my deep spiritual blockages. Heck, for all I know, I might've been a mean nazi concentration camp guard in my precious lifetime(?). I am proceeding at this point to cleanse deep karmicrap from my precious incarnations. There is more going on than psych-yourself-into-it-LoA can handle. I'm past belief. I expect. And yet.

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Re: Purpose

Post by dijmart » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:27 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:
dijmart wrote:if we are out of alignment with that while embracing our humanness we feel it (like anyone else would), but I think the difference is we can, if we choose, make adjustments quicker to get back into alignment. So, we are the living embodiment of our true nature, as much as possible, while/during experiencing limitation through the body/mind physical structure we inhabit.
Sounds like we're on the same page - well said :)
Maybe we are and thanks!
I guess the spiritual journey leads to increased sensitivity to alignment and focus in moving to and maintaining alignment.
Yes, I like the way you said this! This is how it feels for me. There are times when I, for whatever reason, move away from alignment/oneness/presence/whatever. I think we all do at times. I feel it and recognize it much quicker, then ever before. I try to make amends, if necessary and re-align myself. Forgive myself and others and move on from it.
For him, he literally sees people who are enlightened as they have a halo of light around their heads - so he has a way of assessing the authenticity of another's claim's.


Where is he? I want to know what color mine is, so I can match my clothes accordingly? I don't want to have a bright pink halo and be wearing a lime green shirt...aack...hideous! :mrgreen:
I guess I bring this up because I see a lot of people say about being self-realised here and I wonder to what extent they feel that it is the case. I don't mean this as a challenge to anyone. I have virtually no idea about the experience of anyone here. It's just that sometimes I feel like enlightenment is a dirty word and I don't want anything to do with it, but I wonder about the truth of what I have written above..
Welp, I've been on this journey for 5 years now and there had been times when I thought I had "gotten somewhere" with it all. Realizing now, that back then, I was no where, but fooling myself!

All I can say is that a shift has happened that is abiding in nature, misalignment still happens, but for the most part the knowing of my true nature is here. I know myself as one with all things, although seperate, for now. But, true seperation in the absolute view is non existent, so it's a paradox, most things are.

I'm assimilating the self realization knowledge/non-experience, it's a process and for me it's "now" about being or trying to be a living embodiment of our true nature...Trancendence was nice, but dull and it didn't feel right to stay there. So, how long will that take, to fully assimilate? You can only BE "it" moment to moment, each moment with a new experience, that will build upon itself, either getting closer or further away from alignment with your true nature, depending upon any resistance still left to the flow of life itself.
Last edited by dijmart on Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Purpose

Post by dijmart » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:09 pm

slow ride wrote: Your post is a restatement of the basic disparate viewpoints we're having in this thread. What is the role of thinker? Role of knower? When you write "do you believe" I say "believe where, my knower or my thinker?" I'm pretty sure my knower believes. My thinker is just out of the way. You can not psych your self into it. There has to be a real flow of real power. I realize most people here want to "be in their journey" and don't want to address goals, or metaphysical destinations, or gasp, worst of all, real flow of real source, or even worse, double gasp, that source actually has its own action item here, that source must do the action of doing the flowing.
Firstly, you're pretty funny with all the.. gasps! :lol:

Anyways, I would ask you, which one, knower or thinker is "expecting"? You are expecting something to happen, who is it that is stating this? That's your answer.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

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Re: Purpose

Post by slow ride » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:40 pm

Knower is expecting.
Thinker is comatose from three decades of being present.

My name?
Based on my apparent karmic debt apparently blocking source flow, I'm theorizing at this point that my name is Vlad the Impaler.

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Re: Purpose

Post by dijmart » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:54 am

slow ride wrote:Knower is expecting.
Thinker is comatose from three decades of being present.

My name?
Based on my apparent karmic debt apparently blocking source flow, I'm theorizing at this point that my name is Vlad the Impaler.
I see, but it really doesn't matter actually...all is the Self, including the thinker. It's when the thinker rules the knower that there is a problem. However, when the knower rules the thinker, it becomes a servant to the knower.

If you want supernatural powers you will have to figure that one out or see if it comes to you spontaneously some day. You could try LOA, awakening kundalini energy, certain yoga practices, ect. Either way, you may get it or you may not. We are co-creators in our limited forms, we can not dictate to universal consciousness that we must be given this or that, because of xyz years of loyal service. I may believe I can be a millionaire, but perhaps that is not part of my journey in this life or my families journey and if that's the case..regardless of my belief..I probably won't get it. Because I'm not ultimate creator, I am a co-creator. I think Jesus could do supernatural powers most likely because of it being a by product of his awakening and/or happened spontaneously and was also part of his journey.

Perhaps you just need a good adrenaline rush. Maybe go jump out of an airplane?.. with a parachute of course!

PS- what karmic load? If you've been present for 30 years, that's damn good!
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Re: Purpose

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:30 am

Slowride said
I can only conclude that source is trying to flow, that I have deep spiritual blockages that are yet to be remedied, that my immediate challenge is not psyching myself with my thinker, that my immediate task is finding my deep spiritual blockages.
Thinking you have a conclusion might well create a blockage that you then think you need to put all your attention into to find, and then to unblock - why do you then wonder if/why you have no 'space' for anything else?
Heck, for all I know, I might've been a mean nazi concentration camp guard in my precious lifetime(?). I am proceeding at this point to cleanse deep karmicrap from my precious incarnations. There is more going on than psych-yourself-into-it-LoA can handle. I'm past belief. I expect. And yet.
There you go again - anywhere but here/now.
I don't think you are past 'belief' at all, you have far too much investment in keeping it, feeding it.

Concentrate on the ....and yet.....

And yet, here I am, maybe open your eyes and truly look around you here/now - oh look there this whole 'present' thing going on!!

Don't mind me I was atilla the hun & hitler and manson all rolled into one once, I got over it.
(jokin' ---- maybe --- who knows? and more importantly who gives a rats?
If I was 'them' then, I'm 'me' now.)

Btw DJ ----love the equilibrium stuff, you say it really well.

.........................
Edit: after walking outside to shake my feathers like a duck - forgive me my impetuous honesty Slow ride - I was out there thinking I wonder if Zen is closer and can give him a (beneficial and benevolent) slap in the face to bring him to presence too :wink:

Then I came back in to re-read it and noticed ....."I might've been a mean nazi concentration camp guard in my
precious
lifetime(?)". you noticed too didn't you - (checking... is that why you put the (?) after it -) a 'freudian' slip that is more true than what you might have intended to say, if you were 'intending' to say 'previous' life.

Every experience of life IS precious. There is no better or worse there just IS what is.

How do you feel reading that? Does it need a 'belief' or an 'expectation'?
Do you want to run from it, cloak it, hide it or hide from it?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Purpose

Post by Enlightened2B » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:01 am

dijmart wrote: We are co-creators in our limited forms, we can not dictate to universal consciousness that we must be given this or that, because of xyz years of loyal service. I may believe I can be a millionaire, but perhaps that is not part of my journey in this life or my families journey and if that's the case..regardless of my belief..I probably won't get it. Because I'm not ultimate creator, I am a co-creator.


Excellent and well said. Sums it up perfectly. The LoA works, but I don't know if it works in the way that it is sometimes portrayed from my limited understanding of it, such as....let me wish for a mercedes and it will just magically appear. LoA to me is merely about how we do have the free will to create reality based on our thoughts, in the sense that....if we believe our negative thoughts, then reality will appear negative and if we believe our positive thoughts, then reality will be manifested as positive. We will also likely attract in our lives, more experiences based on what those beliefs say.

But even if we put our 'intention/attention' on something, there has to be some leg work to make that thing happen. Meaning, if you want to be a millionaire, you can put your attention/intention on making it happen, but it doesn't guarantee that it will automatically happen for exact reasons dijmart posts above. We do have the free will to manifest our own versions of reality, and our own lives, but do we actually have the free will to alter matter just by thinking about it? I don't know. Can I change my computer into water? Even if I truly believed it, the next person sitting next to me could be believing the polar opposite and putting his/her attention on the computer being a computer.

So, I don't understand that and maybe someone can explain it to me.

This guy's interpretation of LoA makes a shitload of sense to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b295OBuDmyM

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Re: Purpose

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:07 am

Even if I truly believed it, the next person sitting next to me could be believing the polar opposite and putting his/her attention on the computer being a computer.
Who says it needs a 'person' :lol: :? The computer might like all of its parts of energy in motion just the way it is thank you very much. :wink: Seriously kidding now.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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