Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

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Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby Ervin » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:46 pm

Reason I am asking this question is because I can't help but wonder where do people with strong egos, who don't want to let go of it go after this life( I believe in afterlife)? What is someone doesn't want to go back home to the source? Do they keep coming back because of their attachment?

I ask all this because I can't see that source would force someone to be with him once this life is finished.

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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby Phil2 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:12 pm

As Eckhart said we reincarnate thousands of times per day with our compulsive thoughts and our identification to forms and thought ... incarnation means thinking I am a form, a body and a mind ... while the essence of who we are is formless consciousness ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:31 pm

Ervin wrote:What is someone doesn't want to go back home to the source? Do they keep coming back because of their attachment?

I ask all this because I can't see that source would force someone to be with him once this life is finished.


I'm curious about your premiss. In your view, what is the nature of 'going back home to the source'? You must have some perspective of what that means to have cited it as a potential concern of individualized self awareness. Are you suggesting that in going back to Source there is a complete dissolution of self? To never exist as a unique conscious perspective again?

I sense an assumption that may be misleading. As always, context is no small matter.

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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby Ervin » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:59 am

Thanks Phil2 and webwanderer. I am simply finding it hard to understand what are ET's views on afterlife. So I have turned to the forum for answers. So reincarnation is the only way I can imagine where would someone who is strongly identified with his or hers ego. Also I wouldn't know where those who have dissolved the ego would end up.

I understand his views on this life, how we create karma constantly. But it's the afterlife that i don't know nothing about.

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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby Phil2 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:05 am

Ervin wrote: But it's the afterlife that i don't know nothing about.


Why do you want to know what happens in the 'afterlife' when you don't even know what happens in this life ?

??

When we fully understand what happens in life ... what happens in 'afterlife' will become clear ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:56 pm

Ervin wrote:I understand his views on this life, how we create karma constantly. But it's the afterlife that i don't know nothing about.

If you want to understand what happens to consciousness at the death of the body I don't think Tolle is the best resource to explore. I suggest you make a study of near death experiences (NDE's). There are lots of resources that will expand your knowledge base and bring a great deal more understanding to your interest. Here are a couple of links to huge data bases on the subject that I highly recommend. There are many, many more.

http://iands.org/nde-stories/iands-nde-accounts.html

http://www.near-death.com/index.html#.U-DEnfldXh4

There are also lots of books on personal accounts and studies. I'll be happy to recommend some if you like.

While Tolle mentions the subject on a few occasions, it is not a primary focus of his teachings. There far better resources.

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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby Ervin » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:46 am

Thanks again both of you. Webwanderer can you please post the names of those books?

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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:30 pm

There are so many of them I hardly know where to start. Try these.

Backwards
by Nanci Danison

Proof of Heaven by Eben Alexander

I do recommend reading/listening to the accounts on the two websites listed above. The variety of the experiences listed, yet the underlying commonality is quite helpful in developing a perspective of understanding.

For some great interviews with NDEers I recommend:

http://www.afterlifetv.com/category/experiences/

Enjoy

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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby EternalPrize » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:55 pm

I personally like Alan Watts' take on this.

He says something like:

"Suppose I make two statements:

Statement A: After I die, I will be reborn in a new life, but I will have no memory of the previous life I had lead.

Statement B: After I die, a baby will be born.

I believe that these two statements are saying exactly the same thing."
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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby EternalPrize » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:26 pm

I don't believe that we can assert with any sort of certainty continuity between lives. I believe it's counterproductive to have interest in such things, especially for the sake of awakening.

Awakening is about the here-and-now, the what is really certain - certain before our concepts even come to explain. It's about stripping down the structure so that you can better understand the space, and then understanding there is no other purpose to life than to live, and to participate in the structure-building aspects of life, which is why we evolved the ability to experience this in the first place.

From a statistics perspective, I don't believe that the behavior of consciousness, and especially of the growth of the human race, exhibits behavior that suggests there is a sort or moral causality behind the characteristics each life takes on. It all seems biological, nothing more. Karma, if anything in my opinion, is just saying that we generally create external situations that correspond in some way to our inner reality.

That is probably way too cerebral and my own way of explaining it. I'd love to believe I could take comfort in some fantastic thing like continuity between lives, but I simply cannot. I do feel sensuously that I am eternal, but only because I am the fact anything exists at all. Other than that, I live my life with no expectation, assuming that there is no reason outside of living it to live it.
Last edited by EternalPrize on Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby Phil2 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:32 pm

EternalPrize wrote:I don't believe that we can assert with any sort of certainty continuity between lives. I believe it's counterproductive to have interest in such things, especially for the sake of awakening.



Yes, seeing this with you ...

When asked about reincarnation, Ramana Maharshi used to answer: "Are you incarnated now ?"

There is no re-incarnation because there is no incarnation ... as simple as that ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:46 pm

EternalPrize wrote:I personally like Alan Watts' take on this.

He says something like:

"Suppose I make two statements:

Statement A: After I die, I will be reborn in a new life, but I will have no memory of the previous life I had lead.

Statement B: After I die, a baby will be born.

I believe that these two statements are saying exactly the same thing."

EternalPrize wrote:I don't believe that we can assert with any sort of certainty continuity between lives.

I have a different take on the matter. Consider that it's not egos that incarnate or reincarnate. Egos are consciousness perspectives that develop within a human brain/heart based environment. Egos exist, for the most part, as a human perspective. Generally speaking, the consciousness aspect of ego awakens to its greater nature at the death of the body. Egos are not the body. They are a perspective of consciousness which is fundamentally soul essence. Egos are formed in conjunction with the body and environmental life experience. It is soul however, that incarnates an extension of its consciousness into a human form for the experience of it, and will ultimately expand through that extension as awakening.

There is no automatic continuity from life to life other than that chosen by the soul - our essence and true nature. But also consider that time is a physical property. So saying a baby, or I, will be born after I die is out of context with the nature of how incarnation takes place from the soul's, one's higher nature, perspective.

I believe it's counterproductive to have interest in such things, especially for the sake of awakening.

Of course you are welcome to believe what you will, and for you it may even be true that a search for the Truth of the nature of higher consciousness might be counterproductive. For many others, perhaps most, awakening involves a shift in perspective towards one more in natural alignment with one's true nature. That would include an understanding of how life in human form relates to the eternal nature of consciousness and being. My own experience and exploration into this relationship has brought good clarity on the subject, and a high measure of peace and joy to my life experience.

Some however, may profit from a life experience of exclusion on the subject. No doubt it has value as well in the greater perspective of being. It's likely best to follow one's best judgment in what feels right in the path to take - or to avoid.

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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby snowheight » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:32 pm

Phil2 wrote:
EternalPrize wrote:I don't believe that we can assert with any sort of certainty continuity between lives. I believe it's counterproductive to have interest in such things, especially for the sake of awakening.



Yes, seeing this with you ...

When asked about reincarnation, Ramana Maharshi used to answer: "Are you incarnated now ?"

There is no re-incarnation because there is no incarnation ... as simple as that ...


On one hand I'm with you and EP in that ideas about an afterlife just don't interest me, but on the other I can see that as what it is: a personal preference.

Since perspective is inherently unique, any talk of a path to awakening is always just an approximation. There are as many potential stories of how "someone woke up" (** snicker snicker nudge nudge **) as there are people.

So with regard to this idea of awakening then, what is the importance of any particular interest? If someone is sincere enough in terms of being honest with themselves, then wouldn't any old interest do? Image Now, of course the idea that passionate and focused stamp collecting done in absolute earnest would lead a person to lose themselves in the interest might seem a bit off from what EP meant by "awakening", but by the same token, just 'cause something don't work for us, don't mean that it can't work from someone else.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.
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Re: Anybody believe in reincarnation and karma?

Postby Testigo » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:27 pm

Time does not exist. Taking this as an absolute reality, what then about the concept of karma? I believe that our body and mind are both particular expression of Being. What Hindu traditions call Karma I call "roll": Our bodies, our experiences are the ways Being is manifesting through us. Being is One, the cosmos, the Absolute. Being just IS THAT WHAT IS, in a dimension that our intellect, always in the past and the future, can not fathom. We were sent here to witness and experience this dance of form, through especial characteristics and conditions, those that are called karma, just as one of the zillions of forms through which Being expresses itself in the realm of form. In THE ABSOLUTE, THE REALM OF BEING, reality is vibrant, radiant, alive, present, and everything is happening now. In our realm, that of form, subject to the appearance of time, we play a general roll with particular characteristics that respond to our culture, family, education and genetic heritage. That roll gives us for instance, certain phisical characteristics and a certain level of intellect, but the way we manifest them depend on our culture, family and genetics. So, our life will be expressed in very particular and unic ways,those that Indian religious traditions call "karma". Whatever way it manifests, it is AWARENESS BEING AWARE of the zillions of forms that we perceive as other humans, animals, plants minerals, aliens, gods, stars galaxies...
In other words, we should no expect a kind of stairs on which in our incarnations, one after the other, a particular spirit climbs up one after the other incarnations with a short pause of rest after each life towards the top where lies de promise of liberation. This can not be possibly real, because time does not exist, is not lineal, and so that is not what await us after dead.
I have got this considerations: We will die in the Now and then perceive the colosal reality of Being. The Universal Conscience opens then the door for us, and there, not other individual identity related directly to us, (not a person), but zillions of other individual consciences are being up "awake" and reincarnating in other forms, other bodies, even no humans, to give Being another form of expression, according to rules and necessities far away of our understanding, but all of this always in the dimension of the eternal Now. Every form, independently of in which period of time our conventions want to put it, is, has been, and will be a manifestation of Being but always in the Now, and being ONE with everything. This imply, that being one with the totality, every action that we have in relation with others would fall back by force upon ourselves, and it is here where I find the most closer concept related to that of the traditional ideas of karma originated in India.
A fish, a shark of the Jurasic Period, a Neanderthal, a woman of the glaciar caves of 200 000 years ago, a roman soldier of Julius Cesar, an Egyptian midwife of the times of Ramses II, a goat of one million years ago, a man of what our mind calls "future" 50 000 years ahead of our convention of time, etc. All of them are One in the Absolute, all of them somehow we are, have been or will be in the Now, and with all of them we are One. BEING IS, TIME IS NOT.
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