Your Way is Yours Alone

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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby alex » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:34 am

Ok I hear what you're saying dijmart :-)
You actually weren't one of the people I was referring to when I wrote about some replies not sounding like they came from a person's intergrity to their truth and experience.
It IS kind of annoying when people sprout off quotes as if they are associating themselves with that teacher and are superior in some way because of it. I'll stick to agreeing with Jack on that one.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Phil2 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:42 am

alex wrote:So what is it exactly that we should do here? I'm curious because I actually don't know.


We should look at what irritates us (like quotes), then look inside and wonder why it is so ... so we can learn something on ourselves ...

:)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Phil2 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:52 am

alex wrote:It IS kind of annoying when people sprout off quotes as if they are associating themselves with that teacher and are superior in some way because of it.


Maybe you could consider that seeing others as superior or inferior is your own projection, your own creation ... the image you make of others ...

As always, you see things as YOU are ... better stick to facts and not make assumptions on what others think or intent ... this would be wiser ...

:)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby alex » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:40 am

Very well put Phil and I think you're bang on the money. It did actually motivate me to inquire into the annoyance today. I saw the beliefs perpetuating it and turned it around. Yup, sometimes I feel superior and it's a part of myself I wasn't accepting of or conscious of. Just sat with that feeling and now it turns out the irritation is gone. Cool.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Phil2 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:57 am

alex wrote:Very well put Phil and I think you're bang on the money. It did actually motivate me to inquire into the annoyance today. I saw the beliefs perpetuating it and turned it around. Yup, sometimes I feel superior and it's a part of myself I wasn't accepting of or conscious of. Just sat with that feeling and now it turns out the irritation is gone. Cool.


Excellent Alex ... no need to feed the bad feelings, the negativity, the irritation, the judgements ... acceptance can dissolve them instantaneously ... then life becomes a joy ... in this very presence ... here & now ...

:)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:01 pm

alex wrote:Keep on firing the truth for truth's sake.


Bless you Alex :) I love you <3

alex wrote:if you can't find your own voice (truth) then why do you put yourself forward as a teacher


Exactly. If someone acts like a teacher to others and they still have negative energy polluting their feelings, thoughts and behaviour, they will spread this to others. It takes great sincerity to ask yourself your true motivations. It takes great courage to stare at the darkness in ourselves. But facing it dissolves it and then the darkness is replaced with light. Sounds like you're doing this Alex and it makes my Heart swell :)

alex wrote:I sense in Jack a love for truth and alignment to his experience. It is the impassioned new energy of realisation. it's fresh and real and this forum is better for it.


One day soon we'll live in a world where this respect for one another (and ourselves) flows in a beautiful torrent from all humans. It's going to be Glorious!

slow ride wrote:Pretending to channel is not having your own voice.

It is pathetic.


It is a shame for you that your Mind (re: channelling is not possible) and Heart (calling another human being pathetic) are so closed at this time. It is not so for me, and it is Glorious! And now that I speak my Truth as well - another doorway to my Experience opens. Thank you for being the negativity of resistance from which the positivity of my Love and Truth can Grow. Bless you.

dijmart wrote:Also, I'm not a fan of dictatorship, a dictator would say, "Stop posting quotes, unless used appropriately! Stop teaching (unless you are qualified), stop ...whatever it is I don't like".


Relating my expression to being a dictator is a strong way of putting it. To me that says, if you try and speak your truth, to offer it to others for them to take or leave (which was my intention, though there is still a firmness here in that people need to sort out their business before helping others with theirs) then you are a dictator who tries to rule over the experience of others. In other words, you are trying to quell my expression by relating it to something incredibly negative. Which is kinda ironic, because isn't that something a dictator would do? I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. I'm offering advice based on personal discovery and enforced by an alignment with my Higher Self, which is, quite frankly, sick and tired of the sh*t! that people do to themselves and others. She wants this to stop and she's using me as the vehicle for that. I will obviously do what She asks, I love Her so much it's indescribable. I may not fully understand why She is asking me to do things, but I Trust Her Completely. I have a wide and growing variety of tools to check my Alignment and each of these have been increasing as this thread has been developing. It is totally clear to me that I am expressing My Truth appropriately and will continue to do so.

dijmart wrote:I think if Jack has an issue with the usage of a quote, it would be wise to bring it to the persons attention within the thread it's posted. Instead of a making a broad statement that could be misunderstood easily, regarding the posting of quotes and whether that is "unqualified" teaching (?) or trying to look superior vs. just making a point or statement and knowing of a great quote that would say it perfectly.


I feel I've explained pretty thoroughly my problem with quoting spiritual teachers (not quotes in general, I have been specific). Teachers like Ramana, Nisargadatta, Eckhart, Adyashanti, Mooji etc (who are often quoted here) often have their quotes taken out of context. This is very important as these teachers mostly only speak to an individual's question and therefore only give an answer that is appropriate to that individual at that time. To take these quotes out of context can be misinforming and perpetuate unconsciousness. Furthermore, they can be used in this way by an individual who does not understand this to distort the quote into fitting into the view of the quoter. This is a misappropriation of power via the association with the teacher and is a negative constriction. It can be used to control the expression of others in a debate and thus prevent the expression of more open energies which could facilitate a grow rather than constriction of consciousness. Quotes obviously aren't all used like this, I'm speaking of specific situations which comes down to the motivation of the quoter more than the quote.

dijmart wrote:You either have the "voice" to speak up in the moment or you don't. If you don't, the moment (s) is/are gone, then it leads to a thread like this...an explosion.


I don't understand what you mean here. Regarding the explosion though, I see it as a good thing. Like the comedians of ancient Greece and Rome who used fart jokes to clear the air (no pun intended) of society (as everyone farts, though it is frowned upon, therefore it leads to shame and concentrations of negative emotional energy) this kind of open discussion of these potential issues in the "spiritual scene" can help to air out these problems by stirring up the energies in everyone so they can be dealt with and cleared by that individual. That's how I'm using this thread and it's working wonders!

dijmart wrote:, of course everyone should walk their own path, but if they need to follow in someone else's footsteps for however long that is, then that IS their path, at this moment.


I totally agree. But the path is dynamic and ever changing and sometimes people get stuck and sometimes people get misled by others. That can be helpful , as we can learn from these mistakes. But sometimes we don't even need to make these mistakes if someone can come along and show us the information of their experience and we can go through the necessary progression more easily than the potential swamp of unconscious individual discovery. But it is also a responsibility of individuals who have walked these paths and made these mistakes themselves to air them publicly so that others can learn from our mistakes. To not do so would be to withhold the fruits of our endeavours from others which I see (and I'm going to use strong words) as a selfish withdrawal from facing our own cowardice. It takes bravery to be so open about this and face the backlash of the spiritual community and all the potential self-doubt that could instil in us. It may seem easier to hide away and not do this. But that will only lead to our own suffering. We must be pro-active, discerning, forceful (at times), gentle and compassionate (at times), but always from an energy of deep heartfelt love.

Phil2 wrote:Maybe you could consider that seeing others as superior or inferior is your own projection, your own creation ... the image you make of others ...

As always, you see things as YOU are ... better stick to facts and not make assumptions on what others think or intent ... this would be wiser ...


I cannot believe in you as a wise man until I can trust your perspective. As yet I know nothing of it because you say nothing of it. I see a man who is intelligent and has aligned with many well respected teachers and wants to share this with others. But I cannot trust someone who dodges questions about their own personal experience. It is not a good sign of a wise man. It is a sign of fear. And fear spreads fear. This forum is too full of fear. It needs to be cleansed. I don't want to hurt you, but I think you need to be hurt so you can move beyond it.

I realise it's very difficult to ascertain the intentions of someone who writes like I am writing here. On an internet forum this is especially difficult. You cannot see the relaxed posture of my body. You cannot see the gentleness and kindness in my eyes. You cannot see the intensity in my eye brows. You cannot see my loving smile. You cannot directly feel the loving warmth of my Heart or sense the non-physical energies in my own unique way. So when reading this you must use your own discernment to decide whether to align with or against the various things that I have said. The Universe gives you tools to help to find your own Truth. Feeling good about something is a sign. Opening energy centers is a sign. Synchronicity is a sign. Feeling at Peace is a sign. If you sense these signs when you read my words then you can explore them with Your Truth. If not, maybe it isn't for you right now. Maybe it will be one day. Maybe it never will. Regardless, All Is Well in All Creation. The ease with which you experience your life is down to you.

Love, Peace, Harmony,

Jack
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby slow ride » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:06 pm

Phil2 wrote:Maybe you could consider that seeing others as superior or inferior is your own projection, your own creation ... the image you make of others ...

Agreements 2 and 3 from Don Miguel Ruiz's The Four Agreements on display in vivid, surround-sound, IMAX-style theater in this thread.



Jack,
Nobody judged you pathetic. I discern that the act of "pretending to channel" is pathetic. You should read The Four Agreements. You are lost in projection, assumption and self-deception. I am only sending you love, little brother; hoping you outgrow this phase without accumulating so great a burden of guilt and embarrassment that your potential growth the remainder of this earth journey is suffocated.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Phil2 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:37 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote: This forum is too full of fear. It needs to be cleansed.


Once again this is your own projection ... if you feel fear, you will project fear ...

EnterZenFromThere wrote: I don't want to hurt you, but I think you need to be hurt so you can move beyond it.


Do you want to teach me something Jack ? Do you want to 'change' me ?

What is being 'hurt' here ? except your self image ... ie. nothing at all ... an illusion ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby dijmart » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:16 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:
dijmart wrote:Also, I'm not a fan of dictatorship, a dictator would say, "Stop posting quotes, unless used appropriately! Stop teaching (unless you are qualified), stop ...whatever it is I don't like".


Relating my expression to being a dictator is a strong way of putting it. To me that says, if you try and speak your truth, to offer it to others for them to take or leave (which was my intention, though there is still a firmness here in that people need to sort out their business before helping others with theirs) then you are a dictator who tries to rule over the experience of others. In other words, you are trying to quell my expression by relating it to something incredibly negative. Which is kinda ironic, because isn't that something a dictator would do? I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. I'm offering advice based on personal discovery and enforced by an alignment with my Higher Self, which is, quite frankly, sick and tired of the sh*t! that people do to themselves and others. She wants this to stop and she's using me as the vehicle for that. I will obviously do what She asks, I love Her so much it's indescribable. I may not fully understand why She is asking me to do things, but I Trust Her Completely. I have a wide and growing variety of tools to check my Alignment and each of these have been increasing as this thread has been developing. It is totally clear to me that I am expressing My Truth appropriately and will continue to do so.


Jack, you are the one trying to quell others expressions (the usage of quotes and teaching) by saying they are leading others into unconsciousness, are being negative or disingenuous in their intentions. I just mirrored this back to you, by using your own words and calling it as I see it. Perhaps, dictator was harsh, but it's what came to mind. It seems you are trying to stifle others and control the forum environment. I just turned it back onto you, the originator of theses thoughts. You can speak your truth without stomping on others, as you've done in this thread. However, you say you are just giving advice? So, why can you give advice and others can't? Who get's to decide who is qualified to give advice and who isn't? Also, you have not presented this "truth" as take it or leave it, as your now saying. You actually said you aren't going to tolerate it anymore, that is not take it or leave it and you are also presenting it by saying it's coming from an alignment with your higher self. ex. " She wants this to stop and she's using me as the vehicle for that." Isn't this trying to look superior or trying to control, by stating your opinion is coming from channeling or some other source, somewhere other then yourself. Something you've been discouraging throughout this thread?


Quotes obviously aren't all used like this, I'm speaking of specific situations which comes down to the motivation of the quoter more than the quote.


Then perhaps you should bring this up in the thread that it appears.


dijmart wrote:You either have the "voice" to speak up in the moment or you don't. If you don't, the moment (s) is/are gone, then it leads to a thread like this...an explosion.


I don't understand what you mean here.


What I meant was, if you've seen posts you haven't agreed with, regarding quotes or whatever, then maybe you should have posted then to get clarification on the posters intent. If you didn't do this and have let your feelings about it build up, then no wonder is has lead to an... explosion.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Phil2 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:29 pm

dijmart wrote:Who get's to decide who is qualified to give advice and who isn't? Also, you have not presented this "truth" as take it or leave it, as your now saying. You actually said you aren't going to tolerate it anymore, that is not take it or leave it and you are also presenting it by saying it's coming from an alignment with your higher self. ex. " She wants this to stop and she's using me as the vehicle for that." Isn't this trying to look superior or trying to control, by stating your opinion is coming from channeling or some other source, somewhere other then yourself. Something you've been discouraging throughout this thread?


Well said Di ... there is always a danger when thinking that you act in the name of a Higher Power, call it God or Allah or any name, how many wars have we seen in the name of God ?

It seems our own mind is tricky enough to make us believe that the voices we hear in our head come from a higher power ... this is pure self delusion ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby slow ride » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:44 pm

...if not borderline schizophrenia
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby dijmart » Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:34 pm

Phil2 wrote:
It seems our own mind is tricky enough to make us believe that the voices we hear in our head come from a higher power ... this is pure self delusion ...


To clarify, I'm not suggesting Jack is or isn't channeling, as it is not for me to judge and I'm not in his experience. I am saying though that for him to say his thoughts/actions are because of what he heard while "channeling", such as-

EZFT said- She wants this to stop and she's using me as the vehicle for that. I will obviously do what She asks, I love Her so much it's indescribable. I may not fully understand why She is asking me to do things, but I Trust Her Completely.


Using this information within the context of a post, while trying to make a point, is no different then when someone is using a quote by a zen master to back up their point of view and perhaps he should check his motivations for using that information in the manner in which he did, since he is not in agreement of doing such things, such as when he said -

EZFT said- It can be used to control the expression of others in a debate and thus prevent the expression of more open energies which could facilitate a grow rather than constriction of consciousness.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby tomtom1 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:34 pm

Well I don't post here very much because quite honestly I don't feel I have very much to contribute. I do however get a huge amount from reading the forums...

and what I get is the benefit of reading about others experiences, what has worked for them and what hasn't and what they have experienced. Sometimes there is advice and quotes involved which are either useful to me or not. Either way it doesn't upset me if they are not useful, I just ignore them and look at something else. Surely the point of a forum is to discuss other peoples experiences and what they have found useful in their journey, which you may or may not find useful to apply in yours. To be fair a lot of advice seems to be given out on the forum... but from what I can see this is because people are asking for the advice!!! If you ask for it then you will likely get it!!! People love to give opinions.. perhaps its human nature.. perhaps its the ego that wants to feel that by giving advice it strengthens its sense of self.

Surely though we are all big enough to filter out the stuff which is useful to us?

In regards to higher self. To be honest I have no clue what on earth this means are why your calling her a 'she' and thats my truth :D surely any voice you hear is only ever really the self. Isn't this just the same as following your intuition?
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Onceler » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:28 am

Good post, tomtom, and I agree. We are just humans and sometimes I think the problem is that we (I) try to be supra or super humans, ie. enlightened. We have to strive for this and defend our positions, or percieved positions on this attainment journey....at least this is what I have a tendency to do when I get myself in trouble.

Maybe you should post more?
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby alex » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:05 am

I just have to say, to slow ride in particular, you talk about others projecting and being self deluded but couldn't that perhaps be a projection of your own? You do appear to throw judgements out left right and centre. Do you absolutely know for certain where Jack is at? Just curious...
hoping you outgrow this phase without accumulating so great a burden of guilt and embarrassment that your potential growth the remainder of this earth journey is suffocated.

That, for example, actually made me lol.
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