Your Way is Yours Alone

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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:43 am

slow ride wrote:Jack,
Nobody judged you pathetic. I discern that the act of "pretending to channel" is pathetic. You should read The Four Agreements. You are lost in projection, assumption and self-deception. I am only sending you love, little brother; hoping you outgrow this phase without accumulating so great a burden of guilt and embarrassment that your potential growth the remainder of this earth journey is suffocated.


You said that I had mentioned that I channel in other posts and that I am deluded. Then you said pretending to channel is not having your own voice. It is pathetic. Jack says he channel and is deluded - pretending to channel is not having your own voice - it is pathetic e.g. Jack pretends to channel and is therefore pathetic.

slow ride wrote:...if not borderline schizophrenia


So someone having an experience that is not the same as yours makes them schizophrenic? It's a good thing I work in the mental health field so am not so easily harmed by such demonising accusations. But please, continue your witch hunt. I am finding it very beneficial to my development.

dijmart wrote:trying to quell others expressions (the usage of quotes and teaching) by saying they are leading others into unconsciousness, are being negative or disingenuous in their intentions.


Yes I agree. I've discerned the actions of someone as harmful and am acting against it. I feel I'm being very open about my intentions and my experiences so that others can choose for themselves where they align. I can't say the same for others here. I'm using this thread as a practice in speaking My Truth from My Perspective. If I see someone as disingenuous, then I'm saying it. As I write I feel various energy openings and constrictions within my body that are acting as a guidance in the level of alignment I am experiencing and thus tell me whether or not what I am saying is, or is not, in keeping with My Truth. This is independent of whether someone sees themselves in the same way I see them. Or whether or not they are in alignment. The Universe is inclusive of all perspectives and each perspective is valid from its own perspective. All someone can do is to align with the Moment via use of tools such as those I have described (but not limited to those) and feel, think and act accordingly. I Know I am doing that and so I am doubtless despite this torrent of accusations.

dijmart wrote:You can speak your truth without stomping on others, as you've done in this thread.


What if Your Truth specifically calls for you to 'stomp on others'? To challenge the misinformation you see before you? What then?

dijmart wrote:However, you say you are just giving advice? So, why can you give advice and others can't? Who get's to decide who is qualified to give advice and who isn't? Also, you have not presented this "truth" as take it or leave it, as your now saying. You actually said you aren't going to tolerate it anymore, that is not take it or leave it and you are also presenting it by saying it's coming from an alignment with your higher self. ex. " She wants this to stop and she's using me as the vehicle for that." Isn't this trying to look superior or trying to control, by stating your opinion is coming from channeling or some other source, somewhere other then yourself. Something you've been discouraging throughout this thread?


Obviously everyone can give advice. But that doesn't mean that they should. I could give advice on a surgical operation, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea! I'm not qualified. I lack the necessary experience, knowledge and skill. Should someone filled with negative energy give advice to someone who comes to a place like this to ask how to clear their negative energy (I realise the questions aren't worded like this, but from an energetic perspective that is what is happening when someone says 'I'm suffering for X,Y,Z reasons')? Would you be comfortable asking a doctor who is chain smoking in front of you how to quit smoking? I think it's important to talk about this.

I should clarify what I mean here by She and Higher Self. I will write of this as I see it at this time, this is very much open to new potentials and is a constantly evolving process for me. There is the Origin which is the all powerful entity that created All That Is. Many people refer to this as the Self, Source, God etc. Everything in existence is this when you get down to a fundamental level. It is the Present. The Present is a living entity that allows everything to exist within it, and is simultaneously everything that exists within it. However, it has bestowed free will onto that which exists within it. It began by creating a few other Source Entities and these then created more. On and on and on through cycles of creation. Eventually, this cycling of creation reaches us - the human beings that exist within physical reality and call Earth our home. We exist in a very energetically dense and perceptually limited reality. Through our limitation we are largely unaware of the other dimensions of creation that exist around us. We are unable to communicate with higher dimensional (meaning of higher vibrational frequency and therefore lighter and closer to Source, God, Origin) despite being in separate from them. We exist within an illusory separation, yet from the perspective of us it is perfectly real as every perspective is valid from it's own perspective. But, as we are not actually separate we can open up beyond the physical. This can include communication with those higher (or lower) vibrational levels of existence. This is possible as all is Origin and so, via Origin, all can - potentially - communicate with all else. When I refer to my Higher Self I refer to an aspect of my identity that extends beyond the physical. It is the part of me that is closer to Origin. It is the part of me that created this human experience for it's own benefit. Each of us has this part of us. It is Our Self - rather than The Self which is the fundamental Origin of all, this is the specific Origin of us individually. Our Soul. We are all constantly guided by and in communication with our Higher Self, though, for the most part this happens unconsciously. This unconsciousness and lack of alignment with our Higher Self leads to the suffering we experience. The Higher Self creates our suffering to guide us back onto the path it desires for us. It creates Love, Peace and Joy as signs that we are in alignment with it's desires. I recently began direct communication with my Higher Self and my development has been accelerating dramatically since then as we are better able to align together. The starting of this thread was a test from my Higher Self to me to see whether I would be able to align even under difficult circumstances - which I have - this has been a success. My Higher Self is not technically female, but it is appropriate for me, as a heterosexual male and given my personality and the stage I am at in my life to view Her as a She. This is because She completes every lack I ever experienced, including every personal relationship. I have been designed like this so that I would return to Her. She is my Inner Child, my Inner Guru, my Light, my Love. She completes me in a way more intimate than any relationship with another human being alone could ever do. This is why those relationships are never quite perfect. So you have something more to strive for. Something to give energy to your motivation to find Your Self. I imagine many of you will continue to think me deluded because of what I have written here. But I write it not to change opinions of others, but rather to express my own (which, in reference to my earlier points, does include the critiquing of the opinions of others).

Personally I think there is a difference between taking a quote from a conversation between a spiritual teacher and a questioner and referring to your own direct experiences with your Higher Self. I wrote about Her as a way of increasing my vulnerability and openness so that your criticisms would reach deeper into my core and reveal any negative energy to me so that I can clear it. I also wrote about Her as a way of authenticating my experience. By speaking directly of my deepest, most personal experiences I offer myself as authentic. Of course it is up to the reader to decide for themselves whether or not they feel this is the case. But I am being as open as I can about my experiences to allow the reader to make as informed a decision as possible. To some extent, a leap of faith is necessary.

dijmart wrote:If you didn't do this and have let your feelings about it build up, then no wonder is has lead to an... explosion.


It seems to me you are implying I am writing this all full of emotional instability. That is not how it is from My Perspective. I feel deeply calm and at peace as I write this. I have felt that way throughout this thread, even when experiencing negative emotions associated with being pissed off at the "spiritual community" for their lack of consciousness and enabling of the perpetuation of unconscious believe structures (I write this as a general critique of the entire "spiritual community").

Phil2 wrote:Well said Di ... there is always a danger when thinking that you act in the name of a Higher Power, call it God or Allah or any name, how many wars have we seen in the name of God ?


Being in alignment with your Higher Self in a way that recommends you speak your voice against views that limit the conscious growth of a small group of people on an internet forum is very different from insighting hate against fellow humans to start wars and genocide.

Phil2 wrote:It seems our own mind is tricky enough to make us believe that the voices we hear in our head come from a higher power ... this is pure self delusion ...


The authenticity of my channelling has been proven to me many times. From predictions that have come true, to synchronicity, to energetic alignments. Delusion is not being in alignment with your Higher Self. Amusingly, from My Perspective, it seems I am the least deluded person here. But of course this can continue as a circular debate as each party may choose to continue to speak from their Perspective alone and, as each are in opposition, around and around we go.

tomtom1 wrote:To be fair a lot of advice seems to be given out on the forum... but from what I can see this is because people are asking for the advice!!! If you ask for it then you will likely get it!!! People love to give opinions.. perhaps its human nature.. perhaps its the ego that wants to feel that by giving advice it strengthens its sense of self.


Yes, people ask for advice and people receive advice. The question I ask of this forum is, should anyone be allowed to freely give spiritual advice? Anyone can read a couple of books and quote Ramana and Nisargadatta and Eckhart Tolle as if they really understand what is being said. To the people new to the "spiritual community" this can be misleading. You see all these names you don't really understand and you see someone on a forum post with confidence that this is what these people have said about your problem and that they said that X, Y, and Z are the solutions to this problem. You may be so convinced by them that you go against your own judgement in order to align with this person on random internet forum you have never met and who you have no idea what their personal experiences are. You may actually move OUT of alignment with your own Higher Self in order to move INTO alignment with a complete stranger. The Higher Self is subtle at first, and this can, and does, happen. It happened to me when I came here and it took me months to move out of it and back into alignment with my Higher Self. I write this to share what I learned during that time so that others may be better informed of the potential mis-steps they can take when affiliating with the multitude of personalities and motivations that a forum like this offers.

Onceler wrote:sometimes I think the problem is that we (I) try to be supra or super humans,


I actually feel the problem is that we DON'T try to be 'super humans' by which I mean to regain our innate human potential - to reclaim our Divine Sovereignty, to access the abilities we all have but that few claim (e.g. seeing, feeling, hearing energy). We are largely content to trundle through life, moaning about aspects of our existence as if it is someone else's responsibility when, actually, it's ours. There is an incredible lack in humanity. It is down to each individual to complete themselves and remove this lack.

alex wrote:you talk about others projecting and being self deluded but couldn't that perhaps be a projection of your own?


Yeah I was tempted to bring this up when Phil did it earlier. The "you're projecting!", "no, you're projecting!" thing gets old real quick. It's a defence mechanism, as Phil should know as he's a fan of Jung. As is avoiding questions. And before you say "you're being defensive!", I've been as open, vulnerable and sincere as I can possibly be. I've left myself open to attack and, as expected, attack has come. I have done this intentionally to face my own fears over expressing my real feelings about difficult subject matter. I have spoken in depth about deeply personal experiences fully aware that the majority in this community would call me deluded or schizophrenic for it. I do this because I Love and Trust My Self. And because I Love You.

Love, Sincerity, Openness,

Jack
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Onceler » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:08 pm

Go Jack! I think we are saying the same thing about humanness.....I'm saying that people (me) go for this percieved super power that is a false state of being when the richness of 'ordinary' human existence, of which I've had a taste, is far more satisfying. Also that the yearning, the leaning forward out of the now, for a percieved state occludes what is in front of us and is the very thing keeping us from experiencing the rich complex nature of humanness. There is a super human state, free of fear and suffering and which operates as optimally as possible in this context, but I suspect it's not what we think it is. I can see how this could be termed as alignment with the higher self, although I believe it's all self. I like what you say about intuition and feel that more and more myself.

Let me tackle this from another angle. I believe in your experience of direct communication with your higher self and it's validity for you. I think it's fantastic and wonderful and love hearing about it. I also believe that the state of being human is very rare and rich and has other applications. For most humans, for whatever reason, the perception of being locked into the human context is important and necessary. It's like a mono focus on the human reality and any alternatives, such as the one you present, is greeted with defensiveness because that is not the mission of that human life. Some are ready for a direct experience with a higher reality, but most are flying with radar, and that is as it should be. The push back is what it is as well. Beyond this, it seems a mystery, and I'm okay with the flirtatious unfolding of the mystery. None of us should judge another's experience as we all stand on the edge of this multifaceted, unpredictable mystery.

Keep exploring, brother, and keep us updated. I for one, enjoy the reports. Alles gut.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby slow ride » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:35 pm

By their fruits you will know them.

When someone starts lashing out irrationally and attributing it to some voice in their heads, you know that voice (the one lashing out irrationally) is NOT connected with source.

Source does not lash out irrationally.

Source is not a dick.

By their fruits you will know them.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby randomguy » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:45 pm

Onceler wrote:There is a super human state, free of fear and suffering and which operates as optimally as possible in this context, but I suspect it's not what we think it is.

Freedom cannot be what it is thought to be. The nature of being cannot be captured by thought as thought comes and goes with but a tiny reflection of an unknowable reality. These thoughts appear before whom? How can time not appear but to the timeless? Freedom lies in the opposite direction of the super-free-individual. It is in the translucence of the individual story. The 'super human state' is to unquestioningly believe oneself to be separate from reality, to divide the world into players, to believe in terms of 'me' and 'others' and to hold tightly to ideas of reality as truth including what others should or should not be, do or do not do, and say or do not say. The great mystical state is the individual human laying judgement upon reality. To be free of fear and suffering is to see that one already is free of fear and suffering to see that one is already eternally present except for dreaming otherwise.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:44 pm

randomguy wrote:
Onceler wrote:There is a super human state, free of fear and suffering and which operates as optimally as possible in this context, but I suspect it's not what we think it is.

Freedom cannot be what it is thought to be. The nature of being cannot be captured by thought as thought comes and goes with but a tiny reflection of an unknowable reality. These thoughts appear before whom? How can time not appear but to the timeless? Freedom lies in the opposite direction of the super-free-individual. It is in the translucence of the individual story. The 'super human state' is to unquestioningly believe oneself to be separate from reality, to divide the world into players, to believe in terms of 'me' and 'others' and to hold tightly to ideas of reality as truth including what others should or should not be, do or do not do, and say or do not say. The great mystical state is the individual human laying judgement upon reality. To be free of fear and suffering is to see that one already is free of fear and suffering to see that one is already eternally present except for dreaming otherwise.


While, I would largely agree with much of your post and especially the premise you indicate of non-separateness, and the premise that we are only separate in 'thought' , yet, that does not need to exclude the multitude of unique perspectives within the totality. In other words, just because life itself is merely 'one' at its core, the purpose of life (as I see it) in this physical form of humanness or any other physical form, is in the 'experience of separateness' and that includes the individual perspectives. In my opinion, life is not about getting rid of our individuality, but merely seeing that individuality is merely an expression of the whole, and merely utilizing our unique perspectives from a place of presence or a place most aligned with our nature. Understanding that 'separateness' is just a belief in itself, allows each perspective to live life more so from a place more aligned with unconditional love and acceptance as opposed to 'fear, anxiety, anger, competition, etc' which is predominant in our 'half asleep culture'.

I've done enough research into NDE's and channeling over the past few months now to realize that the regular 'non-dual'/neo-advaita view of reality does not really work for me anymore. While I would agree once again with the premise that reality is most certainly non-dual at its core, our purpose as I see it, lies in the actual 'experience' and that includes all human experience. I think we as individual souls of the greater Awareness choose to come into this life for the mere 'experience' of it all and that includes the joy and hardships of human life.

Just my take. Feel free to disagree.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby slow ride » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:04 pm

Many think there is no right and there is no wrong.

Certainly we are all too enlightened to be tricked by religious definitions; no, we are not misled by such nonsense.

But what about these two very broad themes:
1. Energy that further separates the seemingly divided Oneness, energy that exacerbates the separation dream, promotes and reinforces individual.
2. Energy that draws back together the seemingly divided Oneness, energy that restores remembrance of One (Love).

Are we not at least able to discern a worse and a better, a wrong and a right along these simple definitions?

Are we not at least able to discern preferable path options at this level?





For me this is obvious and easy. I am not judging souls. I am discerning the energy flowing through them and allowing or disallowing that energy into my journey back to Oneness.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:18 pm

slow ride wrote:Many think there is no right and there is no wrong.

Certainly we are all too enlightened to be tricked by religious definitions; no, we are not misled by such nonsense.

But what about these two very broad themes:
1. Energy that further separates the seemingly divided Oneness, energy that exacerbates the separation dream, promotes and reinforces individual.
2. Energy that draws back together the seemingly divided Oneness, energy that restores remembrance of One (Love).

Are we not at least able to discern a worse and a better, a wrong and a right along these simple definitions?

Are we not at least able to discern preferable path options at this level?


Here's how I see it. Understand this is just my own perspective and you're completely allowed to disagree with this and my perspective itself is a work in progress that is never 'definitive', but merely a product of my own experiences and research I've done.

From the absolute 'perspective', there is no right nor wrong what-so-ever and that includes anything and everything. There is only 'Isness'. Again, when you have those experiences of no thought, and only pure being, (Samadhi?) there is no judgement on life. Life is just a flow of Being. Good/bad are only human labels we apply to things via thought.

If the dream of separation is further separated as you indicate by unconscious beliefs, then so be it. It's neither right nor is it wrong. It 'just is'. It will merely make for a different dream structure. You can only change 'the world' by going inside of yourself and bringing unconsciousness to light.

The dream ends at the death of the physical body anyway.

Of course we can discern preferable paths. It's (in my opinion), when we cling to 'thought based outcomes' where suffering ensues instead of merely enjoying the ride. We got box A instead of Box B and we can either suffer over this or accept that outcome as a fun experience. However, creating goals in this world is incredibly useful. After all, life is experience. You can't get from point A to point B in this physical reality without planning.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby dijmart » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:40 pm

Zen, my main issue is with censorship of any kind. I'm pro freedom of speech. I don't think someone should be censored regarding speech, quotes or anything else. If you don't agree with a poster that's fine. You have a right to disagree, as they have a right to their view also. Broad statements that some shouldn't teach, use quotes in a certain way, ect., is the beginning of trying to take away their right to freedom of speech...for some??.. and how will one know if they are one of the chosen ones that you will lash out at??

I realize I can't make you see this, so I'm done trying. So, if you want to try to censor this forum I guess that's what you'll do. I think you'll have a fight on your hands, but apparently you're up for the challenge.

Good luck
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:59 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:Yes, people ask for advice and people receive advice. The question I ask of this forum is, should anyone be allowed to freely give spiritual advice? Anyone can read a couple of books and quote Ramana and Nisargadatta and Eckhart Tolle as if they really understand what is being said. To the people new to the "spiritual community" this can be misleading. You see all these names you don't really understand and you see someone on a forum post with confidence that this is what these people have said about your problem and that they said that X, Y, and Z are the solutions to this problem. You may be so convinced by them that you go against your own judgement in order to align with this person on random internet forum you have never met and who you have no idea what their personal experiences are. You may actually move OUT of alignment with your own Higher Self in order to move INTO alignment with a complete stranger. The Higher Self is subtle at first, and this can, and does, happen. It happened to me when I came here and it took me months to move out of it and back into alignment with my Higher Self. I write this to share what I learned during that time so that others may be better informed of the potential mis-steps they can take when affiliating with the multitude of personalities and motivations that a forum like this offers.

I think this is a valid comment. During my time at this forum I have seen a lot of wounded, hurting, confused people ask for help, and they are bombarded with what sounds like authoritative advice. For most of us, there is a part of our minds that wants the easy way, an authoritative figure to tell us what to do, so it's understandable why we would grab at advice even when it goes against our inner voice. Because part of the advice is often, "that inner voice is just your ego talking, you can't trust it, don't listen to it." And months or years or a lifetime of confusion ensues. I'm with you dj, I believe in free speech and no censorship, but I think Jack is trying to say: what if everyone on the forum shared from their experience, and nothing else? What if we don't prescribe, or quote what other people have to say on the subject, but talk about what we know, which is what we have experienced. Our truth, what we have lived, is the truest guide for another we can offer.

EnterZenFromThere wrote:
Onceler wrote:sometimes I think the problem is that we (I) try to be supra or super humans,

I actually feel the problem is that we DON'T try to be 'super humans' by which I mean to regain our innate human potential - to reclaim our Divine Sovereignty, to access the abilities we all have but that few claim (e.g. seeing, feeling, hearing energy). We are largely content to trundle through life, moaning about aspects of our existence as if it is someone else's responsibility when, actually, it's ours. There is an incredible lack in humanity. It is down to each individual to complete themselves and remove this lack.

Onceler, I saw your response to this and thought it was terrific (yours too E2B). This is an area I have felt in disagreement with a lot of people on this forum. I think there is a super-human future in store if the human race makes it past the current obstacles we face (like extinction due to global warming). This super-human is an awakened, self-actualized (Maslow), individual (Ken Wilber's "centaur") who has transcended a lot of the survival impulses of fight/flight and instead relates to the world through acceptance, love, gratitude, compassion, and humility. Imagine a society, a world, made up mostly of individuals like this?! Wouldn't it be a marvelous place to live? Sure it would still have challenges and obstacles, but they would be more subtle than those we face now.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby dijmart » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:01 pm

KathleenBrugger wrote: I'm with you dj, I believe in free speech and no censorship, but I think Jack is trying to say: what if everyone on the forum shared from their experience, and nothing else? What if we don't prescribe, or quote what other people have to say on the subject, but talk about what we know, which is what we have experienced. Our truth, what we have lived, is the truest guide for another we can offer.


That's fine if someone chooses to do so, otherwise if their told not to express their thoughts/opinions in the manner in which they are (unless, of course, they are breaking a forum rule), because that won't be tolerated, then that's censorship. There's no two ways about it.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:12 pm

dijmart wrote:
KathleenBrugger wrote: I'm with you dj, I believe in free speech and no censorship, but I think Jack is trying to say: what if everyone on the forum shared from their experience, and nothing else? What if we don't prescribe, or quote what other people have to say on the subject, but talk about what we know, which is what we have experienced. Our truth, what we have lived, is the truest guide for another we can offer.


That's fine if someone chooses to do so, otherwise if their told not to express their thoughts/opinions in the manner in which they are (unless, of course, they are breaking a forum rule), because that won't be tolerated, then that's censorship. There's no two ways about it.

Yes I agree.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby randomguy » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:09 am

While, I would largely agree with much of your post and especially the premise you indicate of non-separateness, and the premise that we are only separate in 'thought' , yet, that does not need to exclude the multitude of unique perspectives within the totality. In other words, just because life itself is merely 'one' at its core, the purpose of life (as I see it) in this physical form of humanness or any other physical form, is in the 'experience of separateness' and that includes the individual perspectives. In my opinion, life is not about getting rid of our individuality, but merely seeing that individuality is merely an expression of the whole, and merely utilizing our unique perspectives from a place of presence or a place most aligned with our nature. Understanding that 'separateness' is just a belief in itself, allows each perspective to live life more so from a place more aligned with unconditional love and acceptance as opposed to 'fear, anxiety, anger, competition, etc' which is predominant in our 'half asleep culture'.


Yes this is good. Does the recognition (actual recognition, not just conceptual premise) of non-separateness imply exclusion of individual experience? Is this what is seen? It seems to me that one could sooner stop the clouds from forming with one's hands as cease the individual perspective. And with the individual seen through as emptiness as nothing/everything, what would want to? There appears to be a common reaction to a message that one is reality itself, that this implies denying the individual experience or living in a state of perpetuated conflict with the undeniably meaningful individual expression of humanity. This is not true to my experience. The perpetuated effort is the other way around. The struggle is in maintaining the dream of separation by turning toward thought, conceptual knowing, ideas, conclusions and unquestioned assumptions. This is a practice in taking the map for the real world. It is upside down. Wow looks at those mountains. Yes I see them. Aren't you looking at the map? Don't deny the map, the map has purpose! Oh Ok. Individual perspective is as the sun is. It is. What is individual expression like free of identification with thought?
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:04 am

randomguy wrote:
While, I would largely agree with much of your post and especially the premise you indicate of non-separateness, and the premise that we are only separate in 'thought' , yet, that does not need to exclude the multitude of unique perspectives within the totality. In other words, just because life itself is merely 'one' at its core, the purpose of life (as I see it) in this physical form of humanness or any other physical form, is in the 'experience of separateness' and that includes the individual perspectives. In my opinion, life is not about getting rid of our individuality, but merely seeing that individuality is merely an expression of the whole, and merely utilizing our unique perspectives from a place of presence or a place most aligned with our nature. Understanding that 'separateness' is just a belief in itself, allows each perspective to live life more so from a place more aligned with unconditional love and acceptance as opposed to 'fear, anxiety, anger, competition, etc' which is predominant in our 'half asleep culture'.


Yes this is good. Does the recognition (actual recognition, not just conceptual premise) of non-separateness imply exclusion of individual experience? Is this what is seen? It seems to me that one could sooner stop the clouds from forming with one's hands as cease the individual perspective. And with the individual seen through as emptiness as nothing/everything, what would want to? There appears to be a common reaction to a message that one is reality itself, that this implies denying the individual experience or living in a state of perpetuated conflict with the undeniably meaningful individual expression of humanity. This is not true to my experience. The perpetuated effort is the other way around. The struggle is in maintaining the dream of separation by turning toward thought, conceptual knowing, ideas, conclusions and unquestioned assumptions. This is a practice in taking the map for the real world. It is upside down. Wow looks at those mountains. Yes I see them. Aren't you looking at the map? Don't deny the map, the map has purpose! Oh Ok. Individual perspective is as the sun is. It is.


I agree with you partially. However, there is no exclusion of individual perspective. From my experience, seeing the ego as merely a 'false self' means we see how the identification with thought structures creates the false idea that there is a separate person here existing among other separate people with separate stories. But, once again, even when this is seen through as the grand illusion, that does not exclude this unique individual perspective of the whole. How else would we be communicating now? What I can tell you is that when I go beyond thought and simply observe life from the standpoint of ‘presence’, it’s as blissful as can be and that’s my nature….simply as ‘Being’. No labels, no judgement, simply the flow of life. Everything is one interconnected ‘being’. At least it seems that way 8)

That’s all I can know from experience alone, for sure. However, the evidence of others in the NDE, OBE, channeling areas, has helped me tremendously, to expand upon this perspective to incorporate a much larger picture of reality without clinging to anything.

That aside, I have a slightly different outlook on individuality. I don't know about you, but I don’t see the individual as emptiness at all. I see the 'separate person' as a belief and nothing more, but the individual, unique perspectives are still here. I think that’s quite a limited perspective if you ask me to suggest otherwise. That sounds to me like a neo-advaita teaching. Bypassing the whole meat of experience, to merely get to Awareness and simply to ignore the unique expressions of individuality is (in my opinion) missing the whole purpose of why we chose these paths of exploration in the first place.

If you take your direct experience alone and only utilize that, it can be quite deceiving. The sun appears to set, which we know, it doesn't. The Earth appears flat, which we know it doesn't. Our perspectives from our human mind/bodies are inherently limited. That's why experience alone is limited and is intended to be so as it serves its purpose for the greater whole.

What is individual expression like free of identification with thought?


Identification with thought. Absolutely! THAT is what we are free of....the identification aspect with our stories. We don't have to believe the stories of our lives. That's what meditation/self inquiry is so effective in doing....the observation of life from the point of the witness, but that doesn't exclude individual perspectives which we each (in my opinion) come into these lives exploring through. Even going beyond thought structures, there is still a physical vehicle of me and a physical vehicle of you communicating here that still exists....even after awakening. The world doesn't vanish upon awakening to our natural essence of being.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:08 am

I'm playing catch up :D

On quoting others - I quote when and if someone else has already said something I wish I'd said as well as they already have, that I feel fits perfectly into what I'm 'trying' to convey. I don't care whether it's a 'guru' or my Granny, or a two year old, acknowledging a 'source' is being honest.

Given that we are all coming from our own 'way' to use or not to use quotes is totally our own choice. How and why we use them is also our own choice and determined by our own awareness, capacity & willingness.
It's respectful to acknowledge and attribute a preceding author rather than claim the (perfect for the situation) words or phrases as our own as if we are the original author.'

We can also acknowledge the experiences that are the creators of our individual, unique perspectives. For instance I kind of even think of my nde, or my empathy as 'original authors', and so I will 'quote from them.

It also may not necessarily have anything to do with thinking one is a teacher - one may be sharing as an equal - as in .. a quote from a poster that I have no idea who was the original author, but I cannot in honesty claim it as mine in originality and so I quote it "bracket it" outside of my own 'original - creative - work'.

"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.
Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.
Just walk beside me, and be my friend."


I thought ^^^ was 'perfect' for this conversation - and I acknowledge that it is not an original 'pointer' or creation of my own.

In effect, when one details information coming from a noticed 'separate' entity, one is giving attribution for that original content to another - even if one is sharing information that has been channelled, one is quoting a perspective outside of one's own, and possibly detailing the acceptance or the 'fittingness' or 'perfectness' of the information gained.
...

On this quote
..if not borderline schizophrenia.

I almost want to say tsk tsk Slowride those with borderline schizophrenia will also be concerned at your diagnosing aspects of psychiatry outside of your qualifications or capacity to do so on an internet forum.
If you would like to learn about the differences you may like to study some of the work of psychiatrists who have 'tested' and confirmed the differences in both state of transfer of accurate information and the accuracy of the information content itself. . Carl Jung for one, and in NDE research, psychiatrist Dr Bruce Greyson and others.

As well as recognising and acknowledging the original thoughts and expressions of others, it's wise to know when you are 'punching above your weight' as you appear to be doing in this case.

Recognising and questioning our own resistances and motives is a large part of our own journey of self awareness.

It may well be that there is 'bleed through' in energy in motion experienced individually experienced as a capacity or even function of the human condition. It may also be that those who learn to interpret, translate and information outside of their own original thought - both channelling and schizophrenia have commonalities. The difference is one creates fear, and is met with fear, and may lack discernment. The other is not experienced fearfully, nor is it felt as threatening, and with this 'open channel' of communicating one can be more discerning and more respectfully recognising - just as with any other 'original author' these thoughts - perspectives are not of our own.

Interviewing the data - translating and interpreting information gained from any form of communication verbal or non-verbal, totally depends on the awareness, capacity and willingness of those in commune (sender & receiver).

Whether what is transmitted is accurately interpreted by the receiver, as the sender intended, lays more within the 'power' (awareness, capacity, willingness) of the receiver. One cannot make you understand, or accept, or believe anything - only you have that power.
Last edited by smiileyjen101 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby slow ride » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:13 am

E2B wrote: The world doesn't vanish upon awakening to our natural essence of being.

It could just vanish, you know. If everbody woke up and gained mastery of their creative force and quit allowing their energy to be diverted into the separation dream, it would just vanish. It's not really real. It's just a separation projection.

It only seems so real because we're so very good at projecting and because we've been vested with potent creative power.

We're all master mind illusionists. So good that we've tricked ourselves.
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