Awakening is really quite simple

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EternalPrize
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Awakening is really quite simple

Post by EternalPrize » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:33 am

This post, of course, only flows from my experience. I yearn for inner certainty with life, thus I only trust my own experience and my own ability to decipher and unwind this mystery. It is impossible to awaken any other way. I'd rather die not having had what it takes to awaken, than to try to awaken by blind faith in another's experience. Thus, like I said, I only communicate this from my own experience.

Because to me, all these complex awakening diagrams and different theories and especially the sentimental books expressing one-ness, love, being, and all, are completely unnecessary, and actually rather misleading. Very few attack the beast - thought. David Bohm says the body loses proprioception with thinking. I think that's all this is.

Here's how I experience it, in sterile fact: The body completely loses track of how its miraculous ability to think works. Somehow in thinking, meaning is observed. That's quite helpful. When we were more simple animals, we had little ability to understand objects that were not directly impressing themselves upon our bodies in some way. But now we have meaning, which can tell us important details about objects at a distance, along with the possible intentions, thoughts, and so on of those around us. Being able to extend ourselves outside of immediate experience is quite helpful.

But here's where it goes wrong. Thought, rather than simply continuing to arise inside the constant unknowable background where it and everything else happens, makes a sort of mistake. There is awareness of thought, but then... the second thought reacts to this first thought as if the first thought were the entirety of reality and were forcing the second thought to occur within it. This does not happen to babies, but it probably starts happening not terribly long after birth. In most cases, this error goes uncorrected until death. If it happens to be corrected, it is no small change - it is absolutely revolutionary.

And, I guess, it's really quite comical. The answer is right in front of us. The answer is what is actually happening.

I feel like I am losing the ability to articulate my thoughts without sounding too heady, so I'll just stop.

Also, why do so few people talk from experience here? Aren't we trying to awaken? Maybe it wouldn't be helpful at all, but I feel like people need to try to hold each other within their experience more. Even in my group therapy, all people talk about are ideas (I can be the worst at this when I get into my anxious states).

I dunno. If you read this far I'm shocked, but thank you. These are my thoughts, and they mean a lot to me, and make my heart feel more capable of coming out and embracing the totality of my experience. I've now edited this so heavily it's completely changed three times. Any criticism is welcome. I understand thought is an important part of being alive, so I'm not being an fundamentalist advaita nazi here. In the meantime, I guess meditation is key... I wish this pull into the world of mind wasn't still so strong to me, as if the real living world had no value in it.

Phil2
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by Phil2 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:15 am

EternalPrize wrote: Also, why do so few people talk from experience here?
I don't agree, I see many posters here speaking of their own experience and problems ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

Phil2
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by Phil2 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:23 am

EternalPrize wrote: But here's where it goes wrong. Thought, rather than simply continuing to arise inside the constant unknowable background where it and everything else happens, makes a sort of mistake. There is awareness of thought, but then... the second thought reacts to this first thought as if the first thought were the entirety of reality and were forcing the second thought to occur within it. This does not happen to babies, but it probably starts happening not terribly long after birth. In most cases, this error goes uncorrected until death. If it happens to be corrected, it is no small change - it is absolutely revolutionary.
ok we can go into this ... you say that thought feeds itself, that there is a kind of 'compulsive' continuity of thought, right ?

So what is the root of this 'continuity' ?

Isn't it because thought has created a 'center', a 'me', a 'self', and that thought itself is used to protect and defend this illusional entity ? thought is used in order to 'control' the environment and make things happen the way thought projects (its judgements, opinions, ideas, identities etc.) ... which means that thought resists to 'what is' in order to make 'what is' in conformity with its 'what should be', its expectations ?

and this is called 'action' ... which only leads to all kinds of conflicts ...

??
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

randomguy
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by randomguy » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:41 am

And, I guess, it's really quite comical. The answer is right in front of us. The answer is what is actually happening.
:)
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

EternalPrize
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by EternalPrize » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:46 pm

I could be wrong, but I don't necessarily think of it in terms of the ego being responsible for it all. Yes - a big part of the problem is that thought feels that there is a thinker behind the thought, when thought happens to us just like someone pressing their fingers into our arm. Following thoughts even define the meaning of the thinking process, and each person can has his or her own definition here - it's all arbitrary. Maybe some people think thoughts come from outside, like a ball being thrown at them - this would be just as right as thinking it comes from inside (I am just saying this, it does not come from a place of certainty).

You could be right through - does thought only reply to itself in such a way because it thinks the same "I" is behind each thought.

And how does time play into this? Are we a static 4-dimensional block, and if so, why does thought lack the ability to understand this?

Phil2
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by Phil2 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:15 pm

EternalPrize wrote: Are we a static 4-dimensional block, and if so, why does thought lack the ability to understand this?
Because the nature of thought is to create separate 'objects' (a property calle 'reification' or 'objectification') and that we have become ourselves an 'object' within thought ... this object is called 'me' or 'ego' ... this is how thought controls all things, first it creates objects, then it freezes objects in defined patterns and fixed rules of behaviour and it becomes possible to 'manipulate' (control) those objects ...

The fact is that we are not an object ... we are formless awareness ... and this, thought cannot understand because you cannot make an object of formless awareness ... so you cannot 'know' formless awareness, you can only BE it ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

EternalPrize
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by EternalPrize » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:39 am

As I awaken, I feel this pain as I destroy my past. My past is only what my brain carries in its thoughts. The impressionable models it has constructed.

If I lose this, will I still even have an ability to have a sense of who I am, and what I've been through. My entire life has been pain - I'm removing my faith in this pain, this pain that has told me how bad I am. But if I lose it, will my mind be able to create neutral or positive ideas about the same things I've been through? The pain was so severe I hardly remember my childhood. Even in my childhood, I didn't ever think "I" was experiencing the pain. The pain started before the "I" was comfortably created.

So what will I be? Empty space, right? And I just kill my past, and start anew, and practically act as if I never had nearly 3 decades of life?

goran
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by goran » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:03 am

Here's an account of my awakening, which includes my take on what it is.

http://www.uncoveringlife.com/awakening-story/
http://www.uncoveringlife.com – Enlightenment Starts Here

Phil2
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by Phil2 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:16 am

EternalPrize wrote:
So what will I be? Empty space, right? And I just kill my past, and start anew, and practically act as if I never had nearly 3 decades of life?
As Eckhart said: "you are not the story of you" ... find what you are and be happy ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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Onceler
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by Onceler » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:44 pm

I agree. I think people should talk primarily from experience. In my experience..... Conceptualization is not that helpful and can devolve into defensiveness. I think honesty about where you are is more helpful than a conceptual pose....to both the individual and community.
Be present, be pleasant.

runstrails
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by runstrails » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:49 pm

Onceler said: I agree. I think people should talk primarily from experience. In my experience..... Conceptualization is not that helpful and can devolve into defensiveness. I think honesty about where you are is more helpful than a conceptual pose....to both the individual and community.
I like the part about honesty. But experience can be over-rated and misguided. My experience is that the sun rises in the west and sets in the east--but knowledge tells me its not so. Similarly, for most of my life my experience was that of primarily being an ego. It took ET and vedanta to shake that off.
So personally, I'm grateful for that knowledge.

I like the OP title: Awakening is really quite simple. Indeed it is! You are reality--and it's as simple as that. Beyond that, no one knows very much (no matter your experiences) :D.

Enlightened2B
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by Enlightened2B » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:51 pm

runstrails wrote: But experience can be over-rated and misguided. My experience is that the sun rises in the west and sets in the east--but knowledge tells me its not so. Similarly, for most of my life my experience was that of primarily being an ego. It took ET and vedanta to shake that off.
So personally, I'm grateful for that knowledge.
Excellent point RT. This is exactly 'my experience' as well.

EternalPrize
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by EternalPrize » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:02 pm

My personal growth feels so awful. It's like, as a kid, I wasn't given the nurturing to become an adult. So I'm going through that now at almost 30, and I have a lot of resentment and competitiveness that is childish.

I just found out that a job I was getting really excited for, I think someone else at my work applied for it. And someone in our company who used to work for this other company is vouching for them.

I was looking at this job prospect as something amazing, and now I might have to deal with someone younger than me getting it, from my office, and then staying here...

Which is totally fine, but it still severely aggravates my ego and insecurities in an extremely painful and obsessive fashion.

Manyana
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Re: Awakening is really quite simple

Post by Manyana » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:05 pm

EternalPrize wrote:As I awaken, I feel this pain as I destroy my past. My past is only what my brain carries in its thoughts. The impressionable models it has constructed.

If I lose this, will I still even have an ability to have a sense of who I am, and what I've been through. My entire life has been pain - I'm removing my faith in this pain, this pain that has told me how bad I am. But if I lose it, will my mind be able to create neutral or positive ideas about the same things I've been through? The pain was so severe I hardly remember my childhood. Even in my childhood, I didn't ever think "I" was experiencing the pain. The pain started before the "I" was comfortably created.

So what will I be? Empty space, right? And I just kill my past, and start anew, and practically act as if I never had nearly 3 decades of life?
Hi EternalPrize, Eckhart has said that he is very thankful for all the pain he experienced - as pain is after all what causes us to start to awaken. And as Phil has already mentioned you are not the story of you, the pain has served its purpose. So as thought lessens so does attachment to the past, it then becomes a reference point, something you have learned from and is no longer particularly interesting.

The past shapes us and gives us our characteristics, pain wakes us up, then conscious intelligence is able to work through us using those specific skills/characteristics that have been developed. (Eckhart mentions this in a recent link from smiileyjen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suojNzKZ8ew ).

So in essence you will still be you, just with a lot less thoughts.

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