Could thoughts be conscious?

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zoom
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Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by zoom » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:27 pm

Greetings,

When I catch a fear/desire rising, I pause and remind myself Eckhart's teaching that, “This is just a thought and let it be". But who is the speaker of “This is just a thought"? Is it still my ego mind? or the deeper consciousness? I think consciousness doesn't speak, so it must be my ego mind. It sounds like this is a conscious thought? If that's the case, are we using one thought to cure another thought? Well, I could re-remind myself again that "This is just a thought" is just another thought...and so on.

Please help me get out of this recursive thoughts.

Thanks,
Zoom

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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by rachMiel » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:49 pm

On the contrary, STAY with the recursive thought thingie ... follow it down the rabbit hole ... go all the way with it, remaining conscious of the experience the whole time, and see where it takes you.

Imo when you run into what appears to be a paradox ... you're on the right track. :-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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EnterZenFromThere
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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by EnterZenFromThere » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:21 pm

Hello Zoom my Friend,

I love your personal insight into this - your choice in how to explore and decision to question as you have.
zoom wrote:Is it still my ego mind? or the deeper consciousness?
Ultimately, everything and anything is the One. The Primary Consciousness. But this consciousness has folded itself into everything and anything so that these things can exist independently - always Sovereign to themselves, while being part of that Greater Consciousness always. Like if you got a piece of string and folded it into a thousand different shapes, each shape would be a shape itself, but each would always also be the string. So your mind your personality your ego - all these are the infinite string of consciousness folded itself in such a way that it has limited it's awareness of itself. This is true of each of your thoughts too. Each one is Sovereign - Life unto itself - yet also a part of a larger life - your personality, your mind - just as your personality and mind are Sovereign - Life unto itself and yet a part of a larger Life - this Earth - and beyond.
zoom wrote:Please help me get out of this recursive thoughts.
You are not one thing alone. You, as your personality, are an amalgamation of your thoughts. Each thought is a piece of you. Each one has been created by you. Each one is fulfilling the role you have set out for it.

Some people will say that you should suppress your thoughts. That you are not them. That you must destroy them to destroy your personality so you can become One with All That Is. I am not one of those people. For me - such suppression is Fear. Fear is Constriction. Fear deletes. Fear is one of the primary energies of the universe. But there is another energy. Love. Love is relaxation. Love is ease. Love is acceptance. Love is Allowing! Love Adds! Love Includes! Love Grows! Fear shrinks. So, there is a choice. You can choose to attempt to suppress these thoughts that trouble you - to destroy them. But if you do, look carefully at yourself and how this affects you. Ask yourself with sincerity why you are doing this. Are you doing this to avoid something. If you ask yourself honestly - do you feel afraid? If you do, and you are moving away from your fear to avoid it - then I would say you are moving away from your growth and your opening into your divinity. Instead of fear of thoughts leading to suppression - you can acknowledge thoughts as your very own creation - as a piece of you. Then you can thank them for being as they are. Celebrate their completion of their purpose. Thank them and incorporate them into your Being. That embracing love inevitably leads to ease and peace.

Love!

Jack

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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by Enlightened2B » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:18 pm

While fully agreeing with Jack. To add a slightly different slant on love/fear from my own experience.... Love and fear are not opposite energies as I see it in the sense of (heaven and hell). Love is already....what is. Love is the nature of existence. Love IS free flowing energy. Fear on the other is an energy form that stems from believing our thoughts. Yes, it is an energy form that often clouds love. However, there is not a fighting out for control between love and fear. Because love is already the primordial energy which allows fear to exist exactly and lovingly as it does. Meaning....Love is that which allows all energy forms to exist unconditionally as they are. Love is not an energy form.....but Love IS energy itself which allows all experience to be as it is including the various forms of energy that arise such as 'fear'.

If you utilize your own experience, (meditation or inquiry or whatever works for you), it brings us beyond thought to 'presence'. That experience of presence beyond thought can be blissful because it's our nature when thought is not running the show. That nature is unconditional love. The second a thought starts again such as (Shit, I have to do my training for work later). All of a sudden, that love seems to disappear. However, it doesn't. It just seems that way because when we fully believe a thought, the energy form of fear becomes primary, but love is still underneath that fear as the unconditional acceptance/unified field of Aware energy that allows all else to be as is.

In addition, when we say 'choosing love over fear', in my opinion, that to me indicates the opportunity to expand ourselves and open up to allowance (choosing to be more aligned with our nature as love at a higher vibration) as opposed to resistance (choosing to cloud our nature of love by identifying with the energy form of fear and therefore aligning with a much lower vibration). Honesty is most certainly the highest form of love.

Just my take.

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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by EnterZenFromThere » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:31 pm

That was so beautiful E2B - I am so humbled by your words - wonderful!

Love!

Jack

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zoom
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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by zoom » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:10 am

Thanks all. But sorry, I still didn't get it.
Is “This is just a thought and let it be." in my head another thought from my ego mind or not?

Thanks!
Zoom

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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by Enlightened2B » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:09 am

Thanks Jack.....right back at you 8)

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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by runstrails » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:14 am

E2B, Zen, get a room already :lol:.

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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by karmarider » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:36 am

zoom wrote:Is “This is just a thought and let it be." in my head another thought from my ego mind or not?
Probably not all that helpful to analyze it in this way. The technique you are using is to observe thoughts. Observe your thoughts, without participating in the story of it, as an impartial witness. As you observe, thoughts can slow down. Observe the spaces between thoughts. Observe the quietness between thoughts. After some practice, this observation can become natural and effortless.

It's perfectly natural and common to have some trouble with this. The trouble is of course just more thinking and more analysis--the very thing you are trying to observe.

If you get frustrated, observe the frustration.

You can also try some other observation techniques and come back to this. For example,

Put attention in the body.
Observe emotions. Observing an emotion is observing the body sensations and observe the accompanying thought-interpertation of the body sensation.
Observe the sense of I-AM. John Sherman is very good at describing this technique very clearly.
Try Adyashanti's "True Meditation" technique. It's very relaxing.
Try the Release method on my website or try the Sedona Method

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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by kiki » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:44 pm

The seeing/realization "that this is just a thought" happen first; it's the silent recognition coming from consciousness, so it's not in itself a thought. Mind often comes in after that and overlays that recognition/realization with the thought.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by rachMiel » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:14 pm

zoom wrote:Is “This is just a thought and let it be." in my head another thought from my ego mind or not?
Yes, it's self/ego doing what it thinks it does best: Figuring things out and attempting to fix them.

You can continue on this path, figuring/fixing, figuring/fixing ... pretty much forever.

Or ... you can just be calmly aware* of the figure/fix process and gain insight into what makes it tick, what its consequences are, what's really going on. In doing so, you'll eventually stop being driven by it.

* That's what I meant (above) by staying consciously with it, all the way down the rabbit hole.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by KathleenBrugger » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:11 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote: Ultimately, everything and anything is the One. The Primary Consciousness. But this consciousness has folded itself into everything and anything so that these things can exist independently - always Sovereign to themselves, while being part of that Greater Consciousness always. Like if you got a piece of string and folded it into a thousand different shapes, each shape would be a shape itself, but each would always also be the string. So your mind your personality your ego - all these are the infinite string of consciousness folded itself in such a way that it has limited it's awareness of itself. This is true of each of your thoughts too. Each one is Sovereign - Life unto itself - yet also a part of a larger life - your personality, your mind - just as your personality and mind are Sovereign - Life unto itself and yet a part of a larger Life - this Earth - and beyond.
I love this string analogy Jack! Everywhere we think we see a boundary or a line, it's just a human invention being superimposed on seamless Wholeness. Our ego-self isn't some separate entity that has to be gotten rid of to get to some more awakened state, we just need to untangle the string a little. :D

I also like what both you and E2B have written about thoughts (I'm joining in the lovefest rt!). For me, the issue is identification with our thoughts. Thoughts arise in our mind as a natural process of our brain functioning. When we identify with our thoughts it's hard to let a thought just be. If I have a desire to not go to work, for example, if I'm identified with my thoughts then I might start thinking I'm lazy, or a bad person, or a bad mother because I'm not happy to be doing whatever i have to to raise my kids, blah blah blah. But if I'm not identified with my thoughts, when that thought arises, its easy to just witness and let it go, it doesn't mean anything. Just one of those stray thoughts the mind loves to throw up at us. Or, and this is something I've noticed lately, is that instead of going in a negative direction with the thought-train, when I have a thought like "I don't feel like going to work today" I hear it as possibly my body-mind trying to send me a message. Maybe I've been pushing myself too hard lately? Maybe this job isn't satisfying me and I need to make a change. Thoughts aren't our enemy.

In particular E2B I like what you said about love not being fear's opposite. Amen. Love is not a dualistic aspect like good/bad, it's not the opposite of hate, it's God-consciousness surfacing in our awareness. It's the experience of the perfection of what is.
We are ALL Innocent by Reason of Insanity
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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by dijmart » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:05 pm

KathleenBrugger wrote:(I'm joining in the lovefest rt!)
It's a bromance, no chicks allowed usually. Hehe :mrgreen:
Take what you like and leave the rest.

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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by Enlightened2B » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:12 pm

dijmart wrote:
KathleenBrugger wrote:(I'm joining in the lovefest rt!)
It's a bromance, no chicks allowed usually. Hehe :mrgreen:
You ladies and transgenders are more than welcome to join in. I don't discriminate :D

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Re: Could thoughts be conscious?

Post by Enlightened2B » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:21 pm

KathleenBrugger wrote:
EnterZenFromThere wrote: Ultimately, everything and anything is the One. The Primary Consciousness. But this consciousness has folded itself into everything and anything so that these things can exist independently - always Sovereign to themselves, while being part of that Greater Consciousness always. Like if you got a piece of string and folded it into a thousand different shapes, each shape would be a shape itself, but each would always also be the string. So your mind your personality your ego - all these are the infinite string of consciousness folded itself in such a way that it has limited it's awareness of itself. This is true of each of your thoughts too. Each one is Sovereign - Life unto itself - yet also a part of a larger life - your personality, your mind - just as your personality and mind are Sovereign - Life unto itself and yet a part of a larger Life - this Earth - and beyond.
I love this string analogy Jack! Everywhere we think we see a boundary or a line, it's just a human invention being superimposed on seamless Wholeness. Our ego-self isn't some separate entity that has to be gotten rid of to get to some more awakened state, we just need to untangle the string a little. :D

I also like what both you and E2B have written about thoughts (I'm joining in the lovefest rt!). For me, the issue is identification with our thoughts. Thoughts arise in our mind as a natural process of our brain functioning. When we identify with our thoughts it's hard to let a thought just be. If I have a desire to not go to work, for example, if I'm identified with my thoughts then I might start thinking I'm lazy, or a bad person, or a bad mother because I'm not happy to be doing whatever i have to to raise my kids, blah blah blah. But if I'm not identified with my thoughts, when that thought arises, its easy to just witness and let it go, it doesn't mean anything. Just one of those stray thoughts the mind loves to throw up at us. Or, and this is something I've noticed lately, is that instead of going in a negative direction with the thought-train, when I have a thought like "I don't feel like going to work today" I hear it as possibly my body-mind trying to send me a message. Maybe I've been pushing myself too hard lately? Maybe this job isn't satisfying me and I need to make a change. Thoughts aren't our enemy.

In particular E2B I like what you said about love not being fear's opposite. Amen. Love is not a dualistic aspect like good/bad, it's not the opposite of hate, it's God-consciousness surfacing in our awareness. It's the experience of the perfection of what is.
That's how I see it, but, all perspectives are welcome. Love seemingly is a loaded term for some on this board. So, I don't think you have to utilize that particular term. However, I like the term because of what love really points to in an unconditional manner. Just isness/presence/Being. That's love to me.

There are certain thoughts that trigger off strong emotions because of lifetimes and (past lives perhaps) of suppression which is what ET calls the pain body. So, witnessing alone doesn't always do the trick in my experience. Sometimes, working through those old emotions in an embracing, loving manner can be more fulfilling than merely witnessing them. Whichever works I suppose.

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