How is life after self-realization?

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Enlightened2B
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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by Enlightened2B » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:31 pm

runstrails wrote: I think there is a general misunderstanding that decreasing desires (which are a main source of emotions) or simplifying your life means living a less full life. Nothing could be further from the truth. As Gandhi said: "Renounce and enjoy!". Here renounce refers to renouncing the fruits of your actions, or your desires.
BTW, I've made a total generalization above :wink:.
My take is that it's easier to live life from a state of 'Being'.....when you decrease your desires. If one chooses to do that, so then so be it. There is nothing wrong with it at all. Many people look for happiness outside of themselves and feel the need to fulfill themselves with many desires, not realizing that love is already their nature. I would agree with that. But, maybe some people want the additional challenge in life and are looking to approach life from a place of love, by taking on those challenges. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't think there is a right or wrong with simplifying or not simplifying your lifestyle, meaning taking on desires or not taking on desires. I say if it works better for you to simplify your life, then do it. I've chosen to simplify my life as well, largely for health purposes, but at the same time, I've also chosen to take on some challenges in my life of late because I figured....why not? This lifetime is very short in human form, so why not dive in? Jen always says 'whatever you choose is just a different experience'. Neither right nor wrong :)

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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by karmarider » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:33 pm

Enlightened2B wrote: I wonder if the bolded part above is due to the fact that you spend your time largely alone (which I enjoy as well and there is nothing at all wrong with). However, it's a lot easier to be present or aligned with your nature when you are less immersed in the physical world, such as a monk or someone living on a mountain. For me, I'm in my 30's, and I am fully immersed with life. I'm dating, attend a lot of social events, dealing with health issues, do some traveling, and developing new careers for myself. Because of all that, it brings up an array of emotions that occur in my life that range from happiness to sadness at different points of my experience and I am learning to embrace it all.

I no longer believe that awakening is about not feeling remorse, regret, or guilt, but instead awakening is about feeling all of that and embracing it all with absolute love in understanding that it is all part of our experience in being a human being . Granted, I understand that you're not implying suppressing those emotions from reading your past posts, but I think the undertone with many is that awakening leads to less of those particular emotions which I say.....is wholly dependent on your experience. If you choose to be alone more often, then chances are, you will have a lesser degree of those emotions with less interaction with other people. However, the more immersed with life and people, chances are those emotions will be triggered more often. That's part of the human experience. I still feel remorse, regret and definitely boredom! And I love it all! Because that's what we are here to experience. It's one thing if fear is running your life and you're projecting that fear onto your own experience (which is also perfectly ok). It's another thing if life is operating from love. Life can still be approached with love and still embrace all of the emotions expressed above. That's been my experience. Knowing, underneath each emotion is unconditional love.

RT addressed this well. I'll try to be more specific.

There is often a fear which comes about when people describe their awakeness that awakening is somehow about feeling less, becoming less human, less immersed. This is of course not entirely true, but it is true in some specific ways.

I can't say that my experience is general--but I would be surprised if it isn't.

I am not separate from other human beings. I work, I have relationships of many kinds, I travel, I write, I am changing careers to experience a particualar lifestyle I want to experience. I feel emotions more intensely and I feel a broader spectrum of emotions than I did because I am no longer afraid of any particular emotion.

Judgement goes away. Preferences do not, but there is little attachment to particular outcomes. Thinking and intellectual analysis are reduced, but not gone. I make decisions intuitively, trying to see larger patterns of life, though these patterns are often not apparent for a while. I have little interest in drama, as it is seen that drama for the most is self-created and comes from fear, and so it is difficult to relate to many people. I don't watch the news, but peoples' reactions to news are often interesting. I have senstivity to others' fear, sometimes feeling their fear just by standing near them, and so I prefer not be around many people for long.

Emotions which are emotions about emotions are greatly reduced for the obvious reason. When there is acceptance of all emotions, there is little reason to feel emotions about emotions. And so regret, remorse, guilt, worry, anxiety, loneliness, boredom, lack, judgement and so on are greatly reduced. That doesn't mean anything is shirked--It is specifically because nothing is shirked that these emotions do not come up.

Compassion is misunderstood. It is often thought that compassion necessarily abounds with awakening. In my experience, compassion sometimes comes up, sometimes not. Compassion can come up when someone is suffering and they don't have to; and sometimes it is seen that the suffering is part of their process.

As RT points out, the mind is dualistic. It thinks one thing or the opposite. A preference to be alone does not imply removal from the human experience.

Enlightened2B
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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by Enlightened2B » Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:06 pm

Thanks Karma, for openly sharing your experience here.
karmarider wrote: RT addressed this well. I'll try to be more specific. There is often a fear which comes about when people describe their awakeness that awakening is somehow about feeling less, becoming less human, less immersed. This is of course not entirely true, but it is true in some specific ways. I can't say that my experience is general--but I would be surprised if it isn't.
That's your experience and you are entitled to it, but that's not my experience.
I feel emotions more intensely and I feel a broader spectrum of emotions than I did because I am no longer afraid of any particular emotion.
I can definitely resonate with this!
Judgement goes away. Preferences do not, but there is little attachment to particular outcomes. Thinking and intellectual analysis are reduced, but not gone. I make decisions intuitively, trying to see larger patterns of life, though these patterns are often not apparent for a while. I have little interest in drama, as it is seen that drama for the most is self-created and comes from fear, and so it is difficult to relate to many people. I don't watch the news, but peoples' reactions to news are often interesting. I have senstivity to others' fear, sometimes feeling their fear just by standing near them, and so I prefer not be around many people for long. Emotions which are emotions about emotions are greatly reduced for the obvious reason. When there is acceptance of all emotions, there is little reason to feel emotions about emotions. And so regret, remorse, guilt, worry, anxiety, loneliness, boredom, lack, judgement and so on are greatly reduced. That doesn't mean anything is shirked--It is specifically because nothing is shirked that these emotions do not come up. Compassion is misunderstood. It is often thought that compassion necessarily abounds with awakening. In my experience, compassion sometimes comes up, sometimes not. Compassion can come up when someone is suffering and they don't have to; and sometimes it is seen that the suffering is part of their process.
I resonate with much of what you say here, granted I have a different outlook on other parts. As in, I agree with the bolded part and your take on drama and the news. However, judgement does not completely go away as you indicate above for you. I have no problem with judgement either. It's a natural part of my conditioning. It's merely checking it to see if I am projecting it outward towards others as is the case with all other 'negative' emotions.

Thanks again for sharing Karma!

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smiileyjen101
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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by smiileyjen101 » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:24 am

Onceler wrote: It feels very subtle and physical, a kind of satisfied feeling that is not quite peace, not quite joy. Just old joy.

Runstrails said: Yeah, hard to describe--old joy is good. I call it a sense of well-being or bliss or peace. Amazing that our vocabulary does not have a word for it....it should be one of the most important words.
Could the word be grace?

It's maybe been skewed a little philosophically & religiously & morally.
My take on the 'feeling' of it

Grace costs nothing and takes nothing away from anyone
gives to everyone and brings peace and joy.

From the first time I really felt it as a 'distinct' vibration, and in the many times I've been blessed to feel it since, it almost is a wordless, indescribable, sense that all is well, even amid the chaos etc almost like when you do hit 'rock bottom' it's actually quite cosy :lol:

Interestingly the first time I did feel it, was when I was not being it - which likely makes no sense at all. In the light experience I was being absolutely egotistical and it just 'clanged' hollow like you would not believe, like there was no place for it really - like you can play it, but it's just really hollow and recognisably stupid - and has no impact either so that kind of melts it, so then I was like well if that doesn't work - what does and by letting it (ego) go, the grace just rushed in --- if its sudden like that I'd agree with Trails, ...blissbomb!!

Karmarider thank you for sharing your awarenesses. When you used to say there was an underlying fear feeling in everyone, and I would go inside and try and find it, ... all I could find was this 'grace' - hence why I could never quite get on the same page as you on fear. :wink: I am :D :D :D ...

What happened to the underlying fear by the way? Where did it go? Is it one of the emotions about emotions that you speak of now?

Onceler, thank you for expressing your old joy amid the sorrows, may you heal in the peace you are creating. The apples tantalised my taste buds, oh for really fresh produce.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by karmarider » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:53 am

smiileyjen101 wrote: Karmarider thank you for sharing your awarenesses. When you used to say there was an underlying fear feeling in everyone, and I would go inside and try and find it, ... all I could find was this 'grace' - hence why I could never quite get on the same page as you on fear. :wink: I am :D :D :D ...
Perhaps you let go of the basic fear early in your awakening. My process felt very urgent and frantic for five years, and then I saw the fear, and soon after that understood the technique of looking at what-it-feels-like-to-be-me, and the basic fear was seen through, after which awakening continues, on its own, as observation from consciousness.

kafi
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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by kafi » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:07 pm

rt,
Thanks for this thread.

If I define awakening as the discovery of myself as awareness, via the 180 degree inward look of looking at what it feels like to be me, then the following has changed:

There is a constant sense of quiet joy and satisfaction underlying everything,
even underlying uncomfortable emotions or boredom.
Franklin Merrel-Wolff calls this the High Indifference.
This is the root of all the changes.
From this root change there are many branches as a result.
All the branches are a result of not looking for love in all the wrong places any more.
Like less search for appreciation at work.

Often I am aware that I have created my surroundings myself. I am aware that I just had a thought and emotion that caused exactly that next event to occur. For good things as well as bad things.

I am even aware that my thoughts or wishes seem to influence the weather.

The consequence of this thoughts-are-creative-business is that I watch my thoughts carefully all the time because I know that I must be careful what I wish for because I will surely get it.

Another consequence is that I think of myself no longer as the bodymind but as something larger, i.e. creative underlying potential which contains all and creates all.

Yet another consequence is a collapse of meaning. Before, there was a world out there which I was determined to improve or fix. Now, the world out there has collapsed. I know have created it myself.

Also, the navigation mode in life has changed because of this. No more planning, goal setting, milestones. Instead, there is wishing and then allowing things to unfold.

I still experience emotions. I still have ego and self left. Ego recently gave rise to sadness over the loss of the former self image. I was able to allow the sadness to be there. But I had to be careful not to indulge in it too much and was strongly urged by dreams and an inner voice not to withdraw from society as a consequence of this sadness.

I still don't know how to explain properly the difference between allowing an emotion to occur on the one hand , and the indulging in the emotion on the other hand.

I experience guidance, as inner voiceless voice or inner knowing. Being able to access this guidance came with more inner peace.

The guidance does give me a very definite direction. This is , in my case, to share my journey.
And whenever I recoil in fear from that task , I get a very broad hint that this is not tolerated.
The broad hint can be a dream or some really disturbing event up to health issues.

Since three days, I have a strong backache . I am pretty sure this is a direct outcome of my silent resolution from last Thursday that I dont't want to manifest so many opportunities for writing and sharing anymore since they evoke so much fear each time and I found it so exhausting to get over that fear. Aaaarghh. Seems like I am shown that this is not tolerated.

With respect to these broad hints which show up in case of my fear, I experience the universe as a single living organism, like guided by a single invisible hand.

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KathleenBrugger
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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by KathleenBrugger » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:41 pm

For me the main word is serenity. Things just aren't such a big deal anymore. The image that came to mind was of a seesaw. In the old days I was sitting way out on the end of the seesaw on the seat and life whipped me up and down. Awakening has meant moving towards the center, so the seesaw is still going up and down but its not whipping me around anymore. I'm centered, grounded.

I understand the concern that this means feeling life less fully, but for me that's not what has happened. I am less affected by problems or "bad" things, but if anything I feel the good things more intensely. Being present means I take the time to stop and look closely at a flower and drink its scent in deeply. It also means being more open to other people and feeling love more fully.

Acceptance is another way of talking about this. No matter what happens (at least with what life has dealt me so far, no idea what's coming tomorrow), I quickly perceive it as the way it is and flow with it. Not rejecting it and fighting against it or trying to run away from it. Facing it the way it is. Embracing it as perfect.

Definitely less blame and shame. In the recognition of the perfection of everything, what is there to blame another for, or for me to feel ashamed about?
We are ALL Innocent by Reason of Insanity
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smiileyjen101
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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by smiileyjen101 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:58 am

Karmarider said: fear was seen through, after which awakening continues, on its own, as observation from consciousness.
yum yum yum :D this whole statement - yum!
fear was seen through,
after which awakening continues,
on its own,
as observation from consciousness.
Yum yum yum :D

So, can you find that fear in you now if you look inside for it, or has it disappeared in awareness?
Kathleen said: For me the main word is serenity.
Serenity & grace very much resonate on the same scale for me. Your whole post is resonating with it :D
Kafi said: I still don't know how to explain properly the difference between allowing an emotion to occur on the one hand, and the indulging in the emotion on the other hand.
Karmarider mentioned above about having emotions about emotions - which made sense to me.
You might enjoy Elisabeth Kubler Ross' descriptions of 'natural' and 'distorted' emotions in her book Death is of Vital Importance. (or not lol!!)

Thank you for your sharing, it adds to the beauty of the forum.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Onceler
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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by Onceler » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:14 am

KathleenBrugger wrote:For me the main word is serenity. Things just aren't such a big deal anymore. The image that came to mind was of a seesaw. In the old days I was sitting way out on the end of the seesaw on the seat and life whipped me up and down. Awakening has meant moving towards the center, so the seesaw is still going up and down but its not whipping me around anymore. I'm centered, grounded.

I understand the concern that this means feeling life less fully, but for me that's not what has happened. I am less affected by problems or "bad" things, but if anything I feel the good things more intensely. Being present means I take the time to stop and look closely at a flower and drink its scent in deeply. It also means being more open to other people and feeling love more fully.

Acceptance is another way of talking about this. No matter what happens (at least with what life has dealt me so far, no idea what's coming tomorrow), I quickly perceive it as the way it is and flow with it. Not rejecting it and fighting against it or trying to run away from it. Facing it the way it is. Embracing it as perfect.

Definitely less blame and shame. In the recognition of the perfection of everything, what is there to blame another for, or for me to feel ashamed about?
Beautiful post, Kathleen.
Be present, be pleasant.

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KathleenBrugger
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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by KathleenBrugger » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:34 am

Onceler wrote:
KathleenBrugger wrote:For me the main word is serenity. Things just aren't such a big deal anymore. The image that came to mind was of a seesaw. In the old days I was sitting way out on the end of the seesaw on the seat and life whipped me up and down. Awakening has meant moving towards the center, so the seesaw is still going up and down but its not whipping me around anymore. I'm centered, grounded.

I understand the concern that this means feeling life less fully, but for me that's not what has happened. I am less affected by problems or "bad" things, but if anything I feel the good things more intensely. Being present means I take the time to stop and look closely at a flower and drink its scent in deeply. It also means being more open to other people and feeling love more fully.

Acceptance is another way of talking about this. No matter what happens (at least with what life has dealt me so far, no idea what's coming tomorrow), I quickly perceive it as the way it is and flow with it. Not rejecting it and fighting against it or trying to run away from it. Facing it the way it is. Embracing it as perfect.

Definitely less blame and shame. In the recognition of the perfection of everything, what is there to blame another for, or for me to feel ashamed about?
Beautiful post, Kathleen.
Thanks Onceler and Jen. And thanks rt for the thread!
We are ALL Innocent by Reason of Insanity
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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by Phil2 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:12 pm

kafi wrote: I am even aware that my thoughts or wishes seem to influence the weather.

The consequence of this thoughts-are-creative-business is that I watch my thoughts carefully all the time because I know that I must be careful what I wish for because I will surely get it.
Very interesting post kafi, thanks.

Yes I already experienced this weird impression, in several occasions when anger arose in me, the weather suddenly turned to storm with thunders ... this 'synchronicity' defies all logic indeed ... but I would say that it is more related to an emotional state (like anger) than to thoughts themselves ...
kafi wrote:Also, the navigation mode in life has changed because of this. No more planning, goal setting, milestones. Instead, there is wishing and then allowing things to unfold.
Yes it certainly is a common pattern of enlightened persons, they do not act out of their own intentions or projects (this would mean ego operating), they just allow things to happen as they come ... this is probably what Byron Katie calls 'loving what is' and Eckhart 'to surrender to the form the present moment takes' ...
kafi wrote:I still experience emotions. I still have ego and self left. Ego recently gave rise to sadness over the loss of the former self image. I was able to allow the sadness to be there. But I had to be careful not to indulge in it too much and was strongly urged by dreams and an inner voice not to withdraw from society as a consequence of this sadness.

I still don't know how to explain properly the difference between allowing an emotion to occur on the one hand , and the indulging in the emotion on the other hand.
Well I think there is a distinction between 'feelings' and 'emotions'.

An emotion (like anger, jealousy, hate, fear, anxiety) is an 'energy motion', which means it involves a measurable physical process in the body (fast heart rate, sweat, shaking etc...) ... it creates tensions and stress in the body because emotions are resistance to 'what is' (non acceptance of things as they are) ... while feelings (like love or even sadness) do not involve energy, you can be sad but remain perfectly at peace, therefore sadness is not a resistance, except if you start to think 'I should not be sad, I must do something about this sadness' ... which would start a resistance to 'what is' (ie. the fact of sadness) and maybe some emotion and stress ...
kafi wrote:Since three days, I have a strong backache . I am pretty sure this is a direct outcome of my silent resolution from last Thursday that I dont't want to manifest so many opportunities for writing and sharing anymore since they evoke so much fear each time and I found it so exhausting to get over that fear. Aaaarghh. Seems like I am shown that this is not tolerated.
This might indeed be the result of tensions in the body created by emotional states ...

Thanks for sharing this kafi :)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by karmarider » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:32 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Karmarider said: fear was seen through, after which awakening continues, on its own, as observation from consciousness.
yum yum yum :D this whole statement - yum!
fear was seen through,
after which awakening continues,
on its own,
as observation from consciousness.
Yum yum yum :D

So, can you find that fear in you now if you look inside for it, or has it disappeared in awareness?
Fear still pops up. I'm usually surprised by it (as in, how can this thing still be around).

As far as I can tell, the basic fear (something is wrong with life!) which affects the entire context of mind and thoughts and emotions, is gone.

But specific fears can still pop out. Usually it seems to be the distance between reality and expectation. But, like everything else, to observe it is to dissolve it.

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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by smiileyjen101 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:44 am

Karmarider said: Fear still pops up. I'm usually surprised by it (as in, how can this thing still be around).

As far as I can tell, the basic fear (something is wrong with life!) which affects the entire context of mind and thoughts and emotions, is gone.

But specific fears can still pop out. Usually it seems to be the distance between reality and expectation. But, like everything else, to observe it is to dissolve it.
Wow Calm man - I love that you've found the resonance of distance between reality and expectation arising. As with some other 'different' perspectives being discussed as potentially harmful, when I first started uttering that 'noticing' myself, three separate 'professionals' told me that it would be irresponsible and harmful for me to suggest that to anyone experiencing fear etc

At the same time I compassionately realised that their fears, their concerns, were absolutely consistent with/in that notion - they were feeling discomfort in the distance between their expectations that anyone experiencing fear & trauma & suffering 'should' be protected from such a devastating 'truth' and 'should not' be able to 'grok' it. Instead they should be made to feel comfortable in 'victim' or 'incapable' states which creates enemies, obstacles etc of experiences and factors within them. Which I obviously was not displaying in the way they might have 'expected' given my own experiences.

The fact that I was 'grok'ing (amid and in and over experiences beyond their own, and for which their theories would 'pander' to the fears) it caused their own discomfort, for which I apologised.

What I'm truly grateful for in your sharing, is to see that it finds its way into acceptance & understanding.... without harm :D

I think its a vital 'clue' that after self-realization, 'should' and 'should not' lose their grip on us.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by Phil2 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:55 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
I think its a vital 'clue' that after self-realization, 'should' and 'should not' lose their grip on us.
Yes this is really the key issue ... not building expectations ... stay with 'what is' as it is ...

And this can be said in many different ways:

Ramana said "surrender to God" ... Eckhart said "accept the form that this moment takes" ... Byron Katie said "Love what is" ... and a true Muslim might say "Inch Allah" (the Will of God) (and btw the word 'Islam' itself means 'submission' (to God) ...

Many different ways for saying the same ...

"The surrendered state of consciousness is when you don't need MORE (of any thing) to complete yourself" (Eckhart Tolle)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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Re: How is life after self-realization?

Post by KathleenBrugger » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:34 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote: I think its a vital 'clue' that after self-realization, 'should' and 'should not' lose their grip on us.
In est, (I did the est training 30+ years ago) there was a saying "coulda, woulda, shoulda," as a reminder that all three of those are mind-traps. "I should have talked to my mom about _____ before she died" means I wallow in self-recrimination. "I could have been a better mother to my kids" means I feel guilty for their problems. "I would have worked harder if my boss wasn't such a %@#&" means I'm blaming someone else for my actions. All three of those patterns of thought arise from the belief that the universe could or should be (or would be if I designed it!) some way other than it is right now, which is, in fact, perfect. Those patterns of thought are also firmly rooted in the belief that humans have free will.
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