Emotional Intelligence ?

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Phil2
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Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by Phil2 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:55 am

What we discuss here is not that much important finally ... it is all intellectual stuff ... what is important is the way we experience it ... our emotions that those discussions trigger inside ... as long as we are ready to fight or struggle to defend opinions or beliefs, to 'make points', to be right and make others wrong, then it is a sure sign of emotional (and spiritual) immaturity ... and we have seen some examples here ... and elsewhere too ...

And in this respect, each of us is fully 100 % responsible for the way we experience our own life ... there can be no freedom when our experience depends on others, or when we blame others because they are not as we expect them to be ...

But when we bring personal identities in the discussions, when we defend our self image, beliefs and opinions, taking things personally, when we want to feed our ego by 'making points', being right and make others wrong, bringing endless arguments, then our discussions become heavy and conflictual ... there is no lightness and no light in this ...

Some good humour is needed too ...

:)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:49 am

You think, Phil? :lol:

I'm only joshing ya, I agree, the lightness of being is light-hearted, light energied.
And in this respect, each of us is fully 100 % responsible for the way we experience our own life ... there can be no freedom when our experience depends on others, or when we blame others because they are not as we expect them to be ...
So funny, --- if one is in acceptance of this moment ... (to quote some wise guy on this forum :wink: ) the energy cannot be heavy, it can only move lightly with what 'is'.

Can I ask, you've mentioned the Four Agreements and taking stuff personally is one of them, but did you ever get back to me about what you thought about ET's states of awake consciousness being in acceptance, enjoyment, and/or enthusiasm.

That part of ANE directly speaks to what you are saying above. Ego and awareness cannot co-exist, if one is making 'enemy, 'obstacle' or means to an end of a person, thing or situation if one looks around one can see the suffering that they are creating for self and others. But one cannot see it in ego, one can only see it in awareness. If one is in a state of acceptance, enjoyment and/or enthusiasm one cannot take offence or even take offence if others take offence, it's just not possible in those states.

What do you think about that as a guide/measure of awareness?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

Phil2
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by Phil2 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:06 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:Ego and awareness cannot co-exist
Yes, this is correct Jen ... because ego can only arise out of thought ... therefore when there is attention/awareness/presence there can be no thought, hence no ego ... hence nothing can be 'offended' because no self image is created ... also there is no creation of a 'psychological memory', which means no time created ... no further action (such as retaliation for being offended) is needed ... nothing to 'do' ...

Therefore any emotional reactions (anger, fear etc.) which arise when being challenged (or when we take things 'personally' to use Don Miguel's expression) is a sure sign of spiritual/emotional immaturity ... a far better indicator/measure than all the rational words we can use to describe ourselves ...

Look at how you react will tell you who you are ... or rather who you are NOT ...

:)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:45 am

Can't say that I'm that thoughtless :wink:

I'm still thinking where's the answer to these questions
did you ever get back to me about what you thought about ET's states of awake consciousness being in acceptance, enjoyment, and/or enthusiasm.
For me there is still thought in these states.

With 'awareness' that thoughts are being thought either in acceptance, enjoyment, enthusiasm or in making enemy, obstacle, means to an end.

Have you read that section in ANE? What do you take from it?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

Phil2
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by Phil2 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:50 am

smiileyjen101 wrote: For me there is still thought in these states.
Right Jen, thought does not mean there is an ego ... ego is an illusional entity created by thought, this is correct ... but it is perfectly possible to think without referring to an ego ... iow. ego cannot exist outside thought, but thought can perfectly exist without ego ... the creator (thought) must not be confused with its creation (ego) ...

This is why J. Krishnamurti often made a distinction between 'psychological' thought (which implies the presence of ego and its defense system) vs. 'practical' or 'functional' thought, which operates without needing an ego, like when we drive a car or prepare a dinner or solve a mathematical problem ... no ego needed for those practical tasks ...

So we need functional thought to live in this material world, but we do not need the psychological thought which only distorts reality and generates all kinds of problems, conflicts and violence ... and of course in the absolute, we need no thought at all to BE what we are already, but that's another story ...

This is also why Eckhart said that we can use thought (functional) instead of being used by thought (psychological) ... in other words thought is a good servant (a useful tool) but a bad master ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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Onceler
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by Onceler » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:42 pm

Phil2 wrote:What we discuss here is not that much important finally ... it is all intellectual stuff ... what is important is the way we experience it ... our emotions that those discussions trigger inside ... as long as we are ready to fight or struggle to defend opinions or beliefs, to 'make points', to be right and make others wrong, then it is a sure sign of emotional (and spiritual) immaturity ... and we have seen some examples here ... and elsewhere too ...

And in this respect, each of us is fully 100 % responsible for the way we experience our own life ... there can be no freedom when our experience depends on others, or when we blame others because they are not as we expect them to be ...

But when we bring personal identities in the discussions, when we defend our self image, beliefs and opinions, taking things personally, when we want to feed our ego by 'making points', being right and make others wrong, bringing endless arguments, then our discussions become heavy and conflictual ... there is no lightness and no light in this ...

Some good humour is needed too ...

:)
I agree about the good humor....but disagree about the intellectual things being unimportant. I have received what I consider very important, life changing even, information on these forums. I actually value the mutuality and community of the forums, which I suppose is emotional, more than the divisiveness that sometimes occurs. I prefer to get my divisesiveness and emotional triggers in other venues. The world seems to have a bountiful supply......
Be present, be pleasant.

Phil2
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by Phil2 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:39 pm

Onceler wrote: I agree about the good humor....but disagree about the intellectual things being unimportant. I have received what I consider very important, life changing even, information on these forums. I actually value the mutuality and community of the forums, which I suppose is emotional, more than the divisiveness that sometimes occurs. I prefer to get my divisesiveness and emotional triggers in other venues. The world seems to have a bountiful supply......
Yes of course, the information we get here is also important, as Eckhart says jokingly 'in-FORM-ation', but it is not key to spirituality ... Eckhart always insists in his talks that people won't receive 'information', and that those who look for more information will soon be bored and leave the talks ... because it is not 'interesting' ...

When looking at a beautiful sunset you don't receive information, it is not 'interesting' ... but as Eckhart says it is "awe-inspiring" ... which is an emotional feeling of course ... but not an emotional reaction ... because no thought interferes here to 'react' ... no defense is triggered by a sunset ... but rather thought comes to a stop which allows presence to show up, you are 'breathless' (and thoughtless) ... very much like the dissipation of clouds allow the sun to shine ... (and btw the sun never stops shining, clouds or no clouds, just our limited perspective makes us perceive so)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:56 am

Phil2 said: Right Jen, thought does not mean there is an ego ... ego is an illusional entity created by thought, this is correct ... but it is perfectly possible to think without referring to an ego ... iow. ego cannot exist outside thought, but thought can perfectly exist without ego ... the creator (thought) must not be confused with its creation (ego) ...
Thanks for clearing that up Phil, it seems the same as my literal take when you were saying be still, be silent etc
Now I realise that you've already collapsed the 'parts' of it and are speaking more broadly, rather than actually meaning
therefore when there is attention/awareness/presence there can be no thought,
, which I'd taken literally.

Eventually we get there :D that is the joy of sharing information and of our selves, we learn to understand what each 'means' may not necessarily be what another 'interprets' them to mean, it widens and makes our appraisal of 'stuff' more inclusive.

For me, the 'quality' of the thought in ego or in awareness is just 'different', and so too the natural unfolding consequences of that, just 'different'.

Without making enemy, obstacle, means to an end of this 'just is' nuance of communication there is no need to take offence, or even think oneself or another is ... well, anything really :wink:

To do so distorts the path of the original 'ideas' into something totally different, on a totally different path and energy flow.

I also noticed you're copping flak for presenting information that some may or may not see as facts, or opinions in their perspective appraising the factors of it. That's tricky too. Until one has explored all possibilities of the 'cause' (just is) factors of a thing one cannot know which it is. Wide or narrow parameters, egoic or aware qualities can not adequately be expressed in the written form --- you could use 'lighter' words like yum or ppfffttt lol!!

Like the old thing that used to be bandied around about a piece of rope being thought to be a snake and reacted believably as if it was. Sometimes, the snake perceived IS a snake. But if a person has only ever jumped in fear of a piece of rope they thought was a snake, and not actually met a snake on their path, of course the perceptions of 'possibility' or 'probability' are going to be met differently. In nuance if you've met a snake on your path then its valuable and just to discern if the snake is venomous or harmless, submissive or aggressive. Of course no such considerations - musings and assessing aspects of information, are required if it is found to be a piece of rope.

Some folks, like me, do first 'assume' words are meant literally, and because I understand that factor of limited communication, it's why my posts are often 'wordy' in trying to explain what I mean by using them. If and when (and some do & that's okay too) take offence at that, that's their choice, got nothing to do with me really in 'cause' 'effect' or intention.... it just is, what is.

Emotional maturity is as fluent as any other expression of energy in motion. I'm as happy to stamp my feet and say poo, bugger, bum shite as Namaste or in my humble opinion.

It still doesn't 'define' any of us.
So we need functional thought to live in this material world, but we do not need the psychological thought which only distorts reality and generates all kinds of problems, conflicts and violence ... and of course in the absolute, we need no thought at all to BE what we are already, but that's another story ...
We don't need ice cream either, but it's nice to have access to it :D

Eventually in awareness all things are okay in moderation and when we've had too much of them either the need/desire for them will change, or the cause-effect will have its own outcome, mostly they just come and they go, pushing any of it away only creates the same tensions as 'what you resist, persists' or attachment to bias that becomes blind to itself.

Psychological thought known honestly and appreciatively for its capacity and its limitation is likely a useful tool in communication with others, not just inanimate objects or impersonal tasks.

The sense of 'self' in presence allows one to become harmoniously aware of boundaries, sensitivities etc the lack of this can also create problems, conflicts and indeed violence emotional, physical or psychological.

It's all okay Phil.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

Enlightened2B
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by Enlightened2B » Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:05 am

But when we bring personal identities in the discussions, when we defend our self image, beliefs and opinions, taking things personally, when we want to feed our ego by 'making points', being right and make others wrong, bringing endless arguments, then our discussions become heavy and conflictual ... there is no lightness and no light in this ...
Attempting to call out Di's mental illness, attempting to have Ashley thrown off the board because you disagreed with his perspective, calling people's perspectives erroneous on numerous occasions, calling Jack delusional. Is this not bringing personal identities into discussion? You're the one who is taking it all personally and now you're deflecting all of your behaviors on to other people because you're hurt by what I said in the other threads and you simply cannot accept any kind of pointers or constructive criticism.

Look at your tagline Phil:
What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves
.

Why you don't use that advice now for yourself. Instead of deflecting the blame on to others. Instead of creating threads like this. Take the advice you just posted above and the advice in your own tagline and utilize it in your own experience.

See how my posts, WW posts and ria's post in the other thread (which was obviously your motivation for creating this thread) made you feel about yourself.

Much love to you Phil

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dijmart
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by dijmart » Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:42 am

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Take what you like and leave the rest.

Phil2
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by Phil2 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:04 am

Why take things so personally Mike ? ... this can only feed divisions and conflicts ... and useless emotional reactions, a resistance to 'what is' ... learn to be quiet ... I cannot say it enough ...

As J. Krishnamurti said :

"Now the negation of disorder is silence. Any movement of thought will only breed further disorder. "

8)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

Enlightened2B
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by Enlightened2B » Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:13 pm

Case and point. Good luck to you Phil.

beginnersmind
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by beginnersmind » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:37 pm

Phil2 wrote:
Onceler wrote: I agree about the good humor....but disagree about the intellectual things being unimportant. I have received what I consider very important, life changing even, information on these forums. I actually value the mutuality and community of the forums, which I suppose is emotional, more than the divisiveness that sometimes occurs. I prefer to get my divisesiveness and emotional triggers in other venues. The world seems to have a bountiful supply......
Yes of course, the information we get here is also important, as Eckhart says jokingly 'in-FORM-ation', but it is not key to spirituality ... Eckhart always insists in his talks that people won't receive 'information', and that those who look for more information will soon be bored and leave the talks ... because it is not 'interesting' ...

When looking at a beautiful sunset you don't receive information, it is not 'interesting' ... but as Eckhart says it is "awe-inspiring" ... which is an emotional feeling of course ... but not an emotional reaction ... because no thought interferes here to 'react' ... no defense is triggered by a sunset ... but rather thought comes to a stop which allows presence to show up, you are 'breathless' (and thoughtless) ... very much like the dissipation of clouds allow the sun to shine ... (and btw the sun never stops shining, clouds or no clouds, just our limited perspective makes us perceive so)
How is not information key to spirituality? When you first read a book by Eckhart Tolle, you were taking in information and/or conceptual ideas that were probably new to you.

I practice Qigong and NSR meditation and while these practices are natural to me now and it's not about information and/or conceptual ideas, but actual experience through application, I had to use the intellect to understand the information and/or conceptual ideas of these practices in order to learn the Qigong practices and meditation to practice them.

When Tolle supposedly had his spiritual experience and began teaching, he didn't know how to convey these spiritual ideas across to other people, so he began to read spiritual books and gather information and/or conceptual ideas in order to teach. As he has said, he used to teach from A Course in Miracles in his early days, until he started gleaning his own slant on the conceptual ideas.

While Tolle may say people won't receive information in his talks, the fact is they do. It may not be the conventional information, but it is still information. It is still conceptual ideas.

It is not that the intellect or information and/or conceptual ideas are unimportant or not essential to spirituality, it is getting stuck at that level that can be the trap. Anyone can learn spiritual concepts and ideas and pontificate platitudes of consciousness, stillness, ego, awareness, etc. and most people do go through this phase of "cognitive enlightenment". Hopefully, once the person tires of playing with conceptual ideas and see that pontificating platitudes only gets one so far, that the real spiritual work can actually begin.

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Onceler
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by Onceler » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:48 pm

Well stated, beginnersmind, you articulated what I was trying to say. I also got more information.....I'd never heard of NSR meditation.
Be present, be pleasant.

beginnersmind
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Re: Emotional Intelligence ?

Post by beginnersmind » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:33 pm

Thank you Onceler,

As far as NSR meditation, you can think of it as the poor man's transcendental meditation. Essentially the same thing, without the huge expense or religious dogma.

If I remember right, you have said that you practice Qigong. I've been practicing 10 symbols of longevity and have really been enjoying it. If you're interested, you can YouTube it. Anyone else that might be interested. I would recommend either taking some classes first, or if not possible, to really closely study the movements and breath work before trying them. It is very easy to practice bad posture in doing Qigong, thus negating what it is intended to do, along with improper breathing within each posture/movement that negates the release of chi.

Eric

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