Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

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Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:40 am

I came too late to the party where Brene Brown's book was raised, and then this Ted talk was shared in response to questions in other topics. On reading the transcript (which is available as well as the video version) I realised that her story telling nature touches on many things that are mused upon in the forum.

- the notions of fear
- the notions of what authenticity is
- the fears that arise when one seeks to be authentic
- the no action curl into a ball response to awareness, and going beyond that
- the notions of what is courage
- and where does our sense of vulnerability come from, what does it look like, where does it go

For these spiderwebs I thought to give it its own topic - what arises in response, in connection with it.

This Ted talk explores her own vulnerability arising and speaks of noticing differences between those who embrace life 'whole heartedly' and those who don't, those who live in fear of disconnection.

There are so many gems in it - the throwaway asides that invariably occur in the presentation of a 'story teller'

... among them --
shame is really easily understood as the fear of disconnection: Is there something about me that, if other people know it or see it, that I won't be worthy of connection?
The things I can tell you about it: it's universal; we all have it. The only people who don't experience shame have no capacity for human empathy or connection. No one wants to talk about it, and the less you talk about it the more you have it.
The difference in embracing vulnerability is that one accepts it, doesn't seek to cover or hide it.
What do these people have in common?

What they had in common was a sense of courage.

And I want to separate courage and bravery for you for a minute. Courage, the original definition of courage, when it first came into the English language -- it's from the Latin word cor, meaning heart -- and the original definition was to tell the story of who you are with your whole heart.

And so these folks had, very simply, the courage to be imperfect.

They had the compassion to be kind to themselves first and then to others, because, as it turns out, we can't practice compassion with other people if we can't treat ourselves kindly.

And the last was they had connection, and -- this was the hard part -- as a result of authenticity, they were willing to let go of who they thought they should be in order to be who they were, which you have to absolutely do that for connection.

The other thing that they had in common was this: They fully embraced vulnerability.

They believed that what made them vulnerable made them beautiful. They didn't talk about vulnerability being comfortable, nor did they really talk about it being excruciating -- as I had heard it earlier in the shame interviewing. They just talked about it being necessary. They talked about the willingness to say, "I love you" first, the willingness to do something where there are no guarantees, the willingness to breathe through waiting for the doctor to call after your mammogram. They're willing to invest in a relationship that may or may not work out. They thought this was fundamental.
It's funny how many ways honesty being the highest form of love (NDWalsch), and love being the equilibrium of gratitude and generosity (for self and others) - (DMRuiz) and if you are making enemy, obstacle, means to an end of a thing, person or situations (even if it is your self), you are creating suffering for self and others (ET) can be evidenced as absolutely true, universally true and yet excused - separated in our perspectives and perceptions as we try to hold on to some false notion of perfection as if it does not fully include and embrace imperfection.

And how it rocks the boats of those who realise it -
I personally thought it was betrayal. I could not believe I had pledged allegiance to research, where our job -- you know, the definition of research is to control and predict, to study phenomena, for the explicit reason to control and predict. And now my mission to control and predict had turned up the answer that the way to live is with vulnerability and to stop controlling and predicting. This led to a little breakdown -
---- the :idea: when 'controlling' and 'predicting' is known for its own imperfections .... yum :D
Interesting that her therapist called her breakdown a breakthrough


I would love to hear perspectives on the things she raises - especially those things that might be at odds with where folks are standing under now.
And so I said, "Here's the thing, I'm struggling." And she said, "What's the struggle?" And I said, "Well, I have a vulnerability issue. And I know that vulnerability is the core of shame and fear and our struggle for worthiness, but it appears that it's also the birthplace of joy, of creativity, of belonging, of love. And I think I have a problem, and I need some help." And I said, "But here's the thing: no family stuff, no childhood shit." (Laughter) "I just need some strategies." (Laughter) (Applause) Thank you. So she goes like this. (Laughter) And then I said, "It's bad, right?" And she said, "It's neither good nor bad." (Laughter) "It just is what it is." And I said, "Oh my God, this is going to suck."
13:38
(Laughter)
:lol: Yep, but that's okay too.


http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on ... anguage=en
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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:11 am

And then there is this one, where she talks about her 'horror' response to the first video 'outing' her :lol:

http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_li ... anguage=en

I might call this the 'pee tingly' bit. :wink:

Shame that is co-experienced with vulnerability & authenticity is still ... okay >>> yum if a little 'me' destroying :wink:
And I'm thinking to myself, "Brene, what are you doing? What are you doing? Why did you bring this up? Have you lost your mind? Your sisters would be perfect for this." So I looked back up and she said, "Are you really going to try to break in and steal the video before they put it on YouTube?" And I said, "I'm just thinking about it a little bit." (Laughter) She said, "You're like the worst vulnerability role model ever." (Laughter) And then I looked at her and I said something that at the time felt a little dramatic, but ended up being more prophetic than dramatic. I said, "If 500 turns into 1,000 or 2,000, my life is over." (Laughter) I had no contingency plan for four million.
3:12
(Laughter)
3:16
And my life did end when that happened. And maybe the hardest part about my life ending is that I learned something hard about myself, and that was that, as much as I would frustrated about not being able to get my work out to the world, there was a part of me that was working very hard to engineer staying small, staying right under the radar. But I want to talk about what I've learned.
3:46
There's two things that I've learned in the last year. The first is vulnerability is not weakness. And that myth is profoundly dangerous. Let me ask you honestly -- and I'll give you this warning, I'm trained as a therapist, so I can out-wait you uncomfortably -- so if you could just raise your hand that would be awesome -- how many of you honestly, when you're thinking about doing something vulnerable or saying something vulnerable, think, "God, vulnerability's weakness. This is weakness?" How many of you think of vulnerability and weakness synonymously? The majority of people. Now let me ask you this question: This past week at TED, how many of you, when you saw vulnerability up here, thought it was pure courage? Vulnerability is not weakness. I define vulnerability as emotional risk, exposure, uncertainty. It fuels our daily lives. And I've come to the belief -- this is my 12th year doing this research -- that vulnerability is our most accurate measurement of courage -- to be vulnerable, to let ourselves be seen, to be honest.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:32 am

If we're going to find our way back to each other, we have to understand and know empathy, because empathy's the antidote to shame. If you put shame in a Petri dish, it needs three things to grow exponentially: secrecy, silence and judgment. If you put the same amount of shame in a Petri dish and douse it with empathy, it can't survive. The two most powerful words when we're in struggle: me too.
Hmm... if courage is wholehearted showing up, and shame dies with empathy - 'doing it anyway' makes all the sense in the world in why and how our focus widens.
the critic that we see pointing and laughing, 99 percent of the time is who? Us.

Shame drives two big tapes -- "never good enough" and, if you can talk it out of that one, "who do you think you are?" The thing to understand about shame is it's not guilt. Shame is a focus on self, guilt is a focus on behavior. Shame is "I am bad." Guilt is "I did something bad."
The pee tingly feeling - she calls something like the warm wash of shame,
...seems to come more for me in the 'who do you think you are?' voice.... mostly when I'm aware of being used as an instrument of being - not about 'me' at all, but others will only see the 'me' in action and maybe not understand blame or credit is equally shame raising.

How about you? How does shame feel and wash in/over?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:53 am

Vulnerability sounds like truth and feels like courage.
Truth and courage aren’t always comfortable, but they’re never weakness.

Brene Brown
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by Enlightened2B » Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:46 am

Well, here's my experience. Vulnerability has been the key for me to facing my fears and I'm still a work in progress.

Allowing myself to be in vulnerable situations, which I've posted about previously on this board, allowing myself to be imperfect, allowing my Ego Perspective to be as it is has been such an act of Love to me. Allowing myself to judge others and not beat myself up for it. Allowing myself to judge my own self and still not beat myself up for it. Seeing that awakening itself does not leave me any less human than any of you.

I just embarked on a long distance relationship three months ago with a girl that I really didn't know much about. In the past, I would have thought that this was crazy (well, I still do 8) ). However, I decided to dive in and boy was I vulnerable. Committing myself to one person who is overseas on a different continent. This was it. This was my opportunity to really be Love in the most vulnerable of positions. I knew at any point, she could have left me and this was after I told her my feelings on unconditional Love. My fears were wide open to see for myself and it was quite an experience and still is.

I've started a blog over the past month with my picture out in the open for all to see, and I've totally put myself out there with a lot of personal information, detailing my awakening experience as a test to see how I could respond as either Love/and/or Fear. I'm thinking of even sending it to friends now and allowing myself to be judged even more by those with no interest in the spiritual subject matter.

Vulnerability is the key to Love and is the ultimate key to really seeing who you are. Vulnerability is when we know, we are really diving into life and not avoiding our fears. Facing and most of all....EMBRACING fear is vulnerability.

That's my experience. Thanks for sharing Jen.

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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by Enlightened2B » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:05 am

I'd like to add this to go along with Jen's quote from CWG which has had a big influence on me as well of recent.
"Honesty is the highest form of Love"
This quote to me is anything and everything. In the past, I would try to impress people by acting in a way I thought they wanted me to act....especially around girls. I was possessive and I was controlling and jealous. I wanted to be loved and needed. I hated rejection. The only way to do that was to tell people what they wanted to hear. I would act passive aggresively in order to get attention.

In embracing life and allowing myself to actually be vulnerable by embracing fear, I've become so, so, so much more open with what I believe, people need to hear as I feel this is the only way of true Love. Granted, I pick my spots still. But, I always attempt to say what I feel from a place of Love, meaning, not attempting to attain something from someone else anymore. I don't like hurting people, but sometimes, it's necessary if I think they need it.

With my girlfriend now, honesty, honesty, honesty. Even if it pains me and makes me think that what I have to say or feel might be a turn off to her, I'm still completely open about my feelings and my experience with the acceptance that she could leave any time she chooses. When I'm true to my experience, I'm Being Love for another, and not acting passive aggresively out of fear, because I'm not attempting to gain something from another, but merely Being what I already am.

It's been a painful process for me, facing my fears, and allowing honesty to really dictate my experience, but there's Love underneath that pain as I embrace it.

Just wanted to share.

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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:53 am

E2B said: It's been a painful process for me, facing my fears, and allowing honesty to really dictate my experience, but there's Love underneath that pain as I embrace it.
Weirdly wonderful awareness E2B :D It's different isn't it when you know what love really is, as opposed to the mythical 'out there' experience portrayed.

Do you think then that your 'shame tape' is, was, or has been the 'you're not good enough' one? For me that's been the easiest one to uncover in a way that greatness or any-ness favours no one above any other. We just provide the excuses around it in order to not be excluded.

The other tape the 'who do you think you are?' one is something I'm grateful for her including, because until one has the pure experience of that one it's really easily misinterpreted, and it persists and returns even when it's been initially overcome as Dr Brown showed in her second Ted Talk in response to her 'courage' in the first.

It might be more responsible for some stranger than fiction non-actions in our human living history than the first. The ones where 'bad things happen when good people do nothing'.

Imagine if you are a person living in say Belsen in Nazi Germany, you can't not smell the stench of death at the camp on the edge of the town, you can't not know that the 'rumours' of what is going on there are true so you have awareness.

You - unless you're totally brainwashed cannot really believe that these human beings are less deserving of life and dignity than you are, so you do not not have the capacity to discern it for what it really is - genocide, a crime against humanity.

And yet you stay silent, as the vast majority did, even those with the most 'power' in the situation. They can't all have been depraved sociopaths - that's only 1% of the human population.

When life is so poisoned, it's not even a fear of death that cripples us and renders us incapable of response within our capacity and awareness - they were living with death every day - we only fear that which we do not know and do not understand.

It's not even the fear that we're not good enough, they were a part of the supposed supreme race.

So what could it be?... that renders so many so actionless? (and still does today on many fronts)

It's possibly, this excising 'who do you think you are?' voice that says stay in line, don't rock the boat, be a sheep, stay under the radar.

I have no doubt as most were/are not incapable of empathy, it must have been this debilitating fear that had the most power over them to remain actionless and pretend to be unaware, or incapable of speaking out or doing anything to stop it. It becomes the 'group mentality' and its very pervasive even when you know you are 'good enough'.

I've alluded to the pee yourself feeling when the universe presents opportunity for honest to goodness unabashed love and compassion to flow through you and you go - in absolutely weak-kneed vulnerability..what? who me? really? accckkk!! squirm!!!

Just hearing a million voices yelling accusingly who do you think you are? It's absolutely terrifying to a sense of 'self' that desperately just wants to 'belong'.

And why do we do that? Because we separate responses into heroes and villains as if we ourselves are not both heroes and villains at varying times. Somehow in our society villains even get an easier time because they can fall behind unawareness, incapacity - willingly being an instrument of love and compassion gets noticed, and judged, and you'd have to be deaf not to hear it. Rising above it seems to be as scary, if not more so, than rising above you're not good enough.

It's probably the reason that good people do nothing. Not always in unawareness, or indeed in incapacity, but in unwillingness to be 'shamed' so - much like Dr Brown's response to outing herself and herself all but uttering who do you think you are to be saying such profound and true things in public.

Just funny.

Funny because one of my deepest, darkest, 'secrets' is in the story of how I came to know this in absolute aware experience, and even here where I am always 'safe', even me with all my wisdom borne of experience, even me with all my courage in the face of shite ---- trembles even at the thought of it, and it being known.

And yet, in the grand scheme of things it was nothing heroic or world shattering at all. In reality it would likely be relatively understood here more than most places at least here we realise that the 'me' is not who we really are.

I will excuse myself from sharing it at this time, for lack of time lol!!!
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by Enlightened2B » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:32 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
E2B said: It's been a painful process for me, facing my fears, and allowing honesty to really dictate my experience, but there's Love underneath that pain as I embrace it.
Weirdly wonderful awareness E2B :D It's different isn't it when you know what love really is, as opposed to the mythical 'out there' experience portrayed.
Yeah, I know what Love is conceptually, and I know what Love is experientially, especially of recent times, but yet, at times, I still don't think I do, but I also know now, that it's ok if I don't with a big smiley face at the end, which is really where the spiritual search hinders so many for those 'feel good' experiences, not realizing the human experience is a roller coaster ride and it's not about feeling good. It's about feeling in general, which means feeling all of it. It's just so difficult for so many as it is for myself too. And I love that I can talk about this so freely here as well.
Do you think then that your 'shame tape' is, was, or has been the 'you're not good enough' one? For me that's been the easiest one to uncover in a way that greatness or any-ness favours no one above any other. We just provide the excuses around it in order to not be excluded.
I've had insecurities about everything in life ha. I mean everything. I was picked on a lot as a kid because I was a late bloomer with puberty, I was very shy and I had a lot of stress in school with pressure from my parents to do well (and I know they only meant well). I think the shame tape for a long time was/is that I'm simply not good enough and this carried over into my insecurities in relationships with women as I viewed relationships as a form of possession and a prize with the fear that I needed to act a certain way to gain love and the fear of losing love always was in the background. Shyness is really the ultimate insecurity of 'not being good enough'. The concern over what people might think is fear. I developed stress related disorders. Cause and Effect has been quite huge in my life and it's fun to look at it. The 'you're not good enough' is ingrained in my conditioning and probably still carries over into my experience in different ways. Eckhart Tolle helped me see that I was not limited to merely this one belief. That was liberating. Now, it's ok if that belief pops up. But, I'm still working through it.
The other tape the 'who do you think you are?' one is something I'm grateful for her including, because until one has the pure experience of that one it's really easily misinterpreted, and it persists and returns even when it's been initially overcome as Dr Brown showed in her second Ted Talk in response to her 'courage' in the first.
I didn't watch the video yet. I probably should. But, I liked the quotes you posted and I could definitely resonate with this. I'd like to think that most of us at some point or another go through this.
And why do we do that? Because we separate responses into heroes and villains as if we ourselves are not both heroes and villains at varying times. Somehow in our society villains even get an easier time because they can fall behind unawareness, incapacity - willingly being an instrument of love and compassion gets noticed, and judged, and you'd have to be deaf not to hear it. Rising above it seems to be as scary, if not more so, than rising above you're not good enough.

It's probably the reason that good people do nothing. Not always in unawareness, or indeed in incapacity, but in unwillingness to be 'shamed' so - much like Dr Brown's response to outing herself and herself all but uttering who do you think you are to be saying such profound and true things in public.
I don't know. That's a tough one. Sounds like quite a stretch you've made there. It's easier to do nothing and be in your comfort zones, than to do something, even helping another, if it means leaving yourself vulnerable. That's my guess. Although, I don't see the correlation you're making to the 'you're not good enough' here in the Holocaust example. Care to clarify?
Funny because one of my deepest, darkest, 'secrets' is in the story of how I came to know this in absolute aware experience, and even here where I am always 'safe', even me with all my wisdom borne of experience, even me with all my courage in the face of shite ---- trembles even at the thought of it, and it being known.

And yet, in the grand scheme of things it was nothing heroic or world shattering at all. In reality it would likely be relatively understood here more than most places at least here we realise that the 'me' is not who we really are.

I will excuse myself from sharing it at this time, for lack of time lol!!!
Well, I'd like to hear it :D But, I understand.

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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by Phil2 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:44 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
Vulnerability is the key to Love and is the ultimate key to really seeing who you are.
Right ... 'vulnerability' what does it mean ? It means dropping all defenses, right ?

But this is precisely what ego is about: defenses, a defense system, a resistance to 'what is' ... therefore dropping defenses means dropping ego ... and ego is the antithesis of love ...

Love is everything, except ego ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by smiileyjen101 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:07 am

E2B said: Although, I don't see the correlation you're making to the 'you're not good enough' here in the Holocaust example. Care to clarify?
My apologies for muddying the waters E2B -I'll see if I can :wink:
Brene Brown said: ...the critic that we see pointing and laughing, 99 percent of the time is who? Us.

Shame drives two big tapes -- "never good enough" and, if you can talk it out of that one, "who do you think you are?" The thing to understand about shame is it's not guilt. Shame is a focus on self, guilt is a focus on behavior. Shame is "I am bad." Guilt is "I did something bad."
A situation presents to be ---all you really are, above ego, above fear - authentic responding to what is

As Brene says first "I'm not good enough", arises then if you get passed that - say you realise you have the awareness and the capacity to respond above ego, the next 'layer of shame' is "Who do you think you are?"
Remembering that she said shame is not guilt - not about a behaviour or mistake, shame is about who are you in response to this situation are you willing to be all that you really are and all that you say you are and all that you think you are.... so if one gets passed I'm not good enough - I don't have (faith in) my awareness or capacity to respond how I would like to - how the fearless free me would in this situation, the 'who do you think you are?; notices if employing your awareness and capacity will set you apart - make you vulnerable in difference to how others are responding.

This can easily be seen in videos where a crime is being committed or some thing is happening and most people will not respond even within their awareness and capacity to do so until someone else does. It's group think and shame is the tape that says - maybe firstly I can't (which is really choose not to) 'I'm not good enough' but then if one realises that they do have the capacity the tape changes ..... but if I do it will make me 'different' to everyone else who is just standing here doing nothing, and I can't guarantee I really am 'good enough' to intervene or whatever. It will set us apart from the 'group'.

This shame mechanism feeds from the group ego fears, and renders us less than who we really are in order to maintain the illusions of fear.
If someone breaks away from this and responds - others might call them a hero, but that's still only to excuse their unwillingness to be all that they really are in love and compassion.

Linking this to the holocaust notions is because of a film I saw when that camp was opened by the Allies and the villagers offered various excuses for not responding with any love or compassion to their fellow human beings. One woman in particular took my attention - she dressed up for the liberation and was very quick to want to become a part of the 'new group mentality'. It wasn't about a behaviour or her not being good enough (she dressed up to the nines for the witnessing after the liberation as if it was a Sunday picnic she was going to,) it was a visible overwhelming desire to be seen as a part of the group - whichever group was in the majority - if she ever had a thought to be compassionate, loving, to her fellow man it would have been the 'who do you think you are?' tape that would have squashed it - not physical survival instinct, but social survival instinct, which for many feels as powerful as the physical survival instinct, and for some even more so - think cult followers etc

So when an opportunity presents to be all you really are, it may not be the 'I'm not good enough' but this social survival instinct overpowering willingness.

These days its not unusual for folks to video a thing rather than respond to a thing, waiting for someone else to break the barrier. The ones who do respond will more often than not be doing it selflessly and will tell you it wasn't any heroic feat it just needed to be done, others though may not believe this - or at least not acknowledge it because it means they could have responded, and no one wants to blow their cover. That's the 'who do you think you are?' tape. A fear that others will think that you think you are better than them, even when it's not about you or them - look what happened to Jesus they'll muse :wink:

Those who stare down those fears realise it's not about a 'self', they joined the resistance or hid people in their homes, fed deserters or escapees etc not for glory or for reward but because it was who they really are.
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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by smiileyjen101 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:19 am

:idea: The movie The Freedom Writers shows these different tapes really well. Kids breaking out of their group-gang- socio-race- thinking, and the woman they admired for sheltering Anne Frank's family in her home during the war, and the teacher that guided and encouraged them to break free from it, while having to face down her own tapes as well.

Now the title makes even more sense :D

In every moment - be all that you really are ---- and just listen to the tapes that will argue with you :lol:
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:35 am

Phil2 wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:
Vulnerability is the key to Love and is the ultimate key to really seeing who you are.
Right ... 'vulnerability' what does it mean ? It means dropping all defenses, right ?

But this is precisely what ego is about: defenses, a defense system, a resistance to 'what is' ... therefore dropping defenses means dropping ego ... and ego is the antithesis of love ...

Love is everything, except ego ...
You're creating duality again. What you're implying when you say that 'Ego is not Love', is that the ego is the enemy and the ego is a bad thing. As if to say, certain things are Love, while others are not.

When you really experience Love, you see that there is nothing and I mean NOTHING that is not already Love.

There is only light and dark relatively. That which we all allow is Light and that which we shun is the dark. The more darkness in your perspective, the more limited your perspective and in turn, that really is what Ego is. There is no objective definition of Ego. But, Darkness is not a bad thing. It's just that which we have not yet learned to embrace and allow. When we embrace and allow, we see that the darkness becomes light and is really not bad at all. It's just our fear that claims as such. We fear that which we do not understand and we embrace that which we do understand. But, when you can embrace it all, you can see that there is nothing outside of you. You are Love itself in every possible way.

Love is all there is. Love includes Ego. You likely have not experienced that if you're claiming that Ego is something other than Love. When you actually embrace your fears, when you actually embrace the Ego perspective, and stop limiting yourself by claiming certain things are this, while others things are not, when you go beyond the conceptual understanding of spirituality, you can see that there is only Love underneath all experience Phil and I mean all. Experience is Love. I can't explain this conceptually. It's something you simply have to experience. I might not agree with you on certain things, but your perspective is Love itself as is mine as is the most unawakened person on the planet. They just don't realize it. And those who judge their perspectives as right/wrong or erroneous or other adjectives, also simply don't realize it, because they're still too caught up in concepts. They think they have the answers. They think they have spirituality all figured out conceptually. But, all that they are doing is putting themselves into a cubbyhole and not allowing any wiggle room for perspectives outside of their own.

The Ego perspective is a limited perspective, but because it exists, just like a less limited perspective, means that there is Love underneath it.

Ironically, claiming the Ego perspective to be something other than Love, is just our own Ego perspective itself claiming as such.

The more we limit, the less aligned with Love we are. The more open our perspective, the more Love we are. Ultimately, Love is only anything and everything already. You just think it's not.

Love only to you Phil.


Jen, I will read your post later and get back to you.

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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:04 am

So, I had a moment to look at your post Jen and I have a better understanding now of where you're coming from pertaining to Nazi Germany.

The way I see it, is that in any kind of a situation, you can respond from a more limited place (fear/ego), or you can respond from a less limited place (more aligned with Love) with less coloring of the situation. What IS, merely IS. The situation itself, merely IS....what IS. But, I feel as though there is always a level of conditioning that will color our perception of an experience while in humanness, even if that perception/perspective is more inclusive of fear and ego. Meaning, I'm not really sure if there is an objective 'authentic response'. The only objectivity that I see, is merely 'What IS'. Meaning, the greater perspective of Totality, is....what IS, but who's to say that there is one Great Perspective. Perhaps, What IS, is merely greater and greater and greater perspectives on top of each other, meaning there is always a level of subjectivity within the fractal nature of existence since perspectives zooming out go on for infinity. Or I could be wrong. 8)

I think there are just less and less layers of limitation because of the fact that we don't have the full perspective available to us. Therefore, a response in any situation, would be from the least limited versions of ourselves as possible as I see it, meaning the more inclusive perspective at any given time. Meaning, a light shining on the fearful thoughts in any moment and a response more aligned with Love....meaning...the less limited versions of ourselves. I don't know if I'm making any sense here. I'm kind of just winging it on the insight I feel right now.

I can relate to the 'group Ego mentality' you speak of because it was my experience for so long. Back in school, I always wanted to fit in. I was so scared to be an outsider. I didn't want to be noticed. I hated public speaking. I wanted to be accepted. I was afraid of attention. I didn't want people to dislike me. I wanted to be liked. Wanting to be liked, often provoked me into walking around with a mask or a false persona. Who did I think I was at the time? I thought I was someone who needed love and acceptance from others in order to be who I was. Meaning, I didn't think i was anyone until someone outside of my self provided validation that I was ok.

The Group Ego Mentality is essentially....being dishonest to yourself and others (fear). The movie 'The Time Machine' with Rod Taylor from 1960. One of my favorite movies. Rod Taylor goes into a futuristic time where humans lack empathy and compassion. There's a scene where a girl is drowning and everyone from this futuristic world is just sitting around doing nothing and watching. Rod Taylor who is the Time Traveler in the movie, is abhorred to see that no one is helping and he dives in and saves the girl and starts screaming at the others-'Why did you all just sit there while she was drowning"!? What stands out is that this entire futuristic civilization is merely one giant Group Ego who eat together at designed times, sleep at designed times and show no individual willpower to break away from the group mentality because they don't know any better from the beliefs ingrained in their conditioning by the creatures that actually run the land. Basically, everyone following everyone else because this is who they believed themselves to be. It wasn't until Rod Taylor showed them, that they didn't have to follow this belief system and they could stand up on their own and not be victims to these beliefs and be their own unique expressions, that they finally started showing compassion towards the end of the film. His act of kindness to save the girl stood out to the others as something different than the group mentality.

Meaning, who do we think we are? If we think (believe) we can only be something in relation to what others want us to be, then our reactions will stem from fear. If we merely just are the highest versions of ourselves, meaning Being who we are beyond the conditioned set of beliefs, then we are being honest, not just to ourselves, but to others as we have the greatest opportunity for Being Love in this capacity. Waiting for others to step in, is a sign that we don't love ourselves. We need others to love us to validate our existence. We are afraid to stand out, in case others will shun us. And if we step in and prove to be wrong, what's the worst that can happen?

This has become much more evident to me in relationships now. Relationships have been an incredible tool for me to see myself in relation to others. Am I trying to gain the love of another? Or am I Being what I already am as Love?

I might have gone off topic here. But, it all comes down to Being what we already are beyond fear and ego OR Being the most limited versions of ourselves as possible....Being Ego. So, how you react/respond in any situation, will ultimately be....how you view yourself. After all, we only are.....whatever we perceive ourselves to be in any situation. 8)

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by smiileyjen101 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:02 am

ummm you're mentioning 'off topic' to me :roll: :lol: .... never E2B, not possible :P
But, I feel as though there is always a level of conditioning that will color our perception of an experience while in humanness, even if that perception/perspective is more inclusive of fear and ego.

Meaning, I'm not really sure if there is an objective 'authentic response'.

The only objectivity that I see, is merely 'What IS'. Meaning, the greater perspective of Totality, is....what IS, but who's to say that there is one Great Perspective. Perhaps, What IS, is merely greater and greater and greater perspectives on top of each other, meaning there is always a level of subjectivity within the fractal nature of existence since perspectives zooming out go on for infinity. Or I could be wrong. 8)
If you're wrong, what a wonderful experience you're having regardless :P

Okay, I need to step out of ... this space... when I was in the light awareness there were just things, 'stuff' that may seem totally inconsequential that were mind blowingly significant - not in the way folks might think, just in the way that it absolutely resonated as the flap of the butterfly's wing that would - could - did - could not not - create a tsunami on the other side of the world, through all eternity.

Then there were other things that I once would have thought were all important that were like a dead deflating balloon in terms of generating or flowing anywhere or to anything. Just like a really insignificant fart. You think it's world shatteringly noticed and life definingly important - the more important you are the more important the timing and the placement of a fart/action, the more important the company you're in, the more shameful the experience, but in the great scheme of things literally pfffttt.

What I might explain it like now, all these years of experience later, might be that there actually is a resonance of pure objective energy, I think it's along the scale of grace. Grace which seems so peaceful and innocent and non-active and silent and unmoving and powerless - but god it soars higher and wider and brighter and more powerfully than an atom bomb bigger than the whole Earth - just one blink of just one eyelash in grace is more powerful than .... anything. It flings the spiderwebs in a myriad of directions brighter than a firework show.

Grace truly is the letting go. Grace truly is the unadorned authenticness being let go.
(that's funny because 'fart' was not a 'nice' word when I was growing up, we would politely and shamelessly say, "Excuse me, I just let off or I just let go" ---- how innocently beautiful that acceptance in grace --- ahem okay off topic :wink: )

Oftentimes it just happens in unawareness and it is just gorgeous, but when it happens in awareness, when that butterfly flaps its wing knowingly.... when that butterfly knows it will create a tsunami on the other side of the earth - have 'impact' far beyond anything as insignificant as the players in it - it is still, and can be known by, its absolute objectivity.

Think about it, a butterfly that knows that the flap of its wing will create a tsunami on the other side of the world - --

how could it hold onto any subjectivity and flap its wing? (assuming the butterfly is not a rampant sociopath of course lol!!)
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

Phil2
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Re: Beyond Shame - the power of vulnerability - Brene Brown

Post by Phil2 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:11 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
This Ted talk explores her own vulnerability arising and speaks of noticing differences between those who embrace life 'whole heartedly' and those who don't, those who live in fear of disconnection.

There are so many gems in it - the throwaway asides that invariably occur in the presentation of a 'story teller'

... among them --
shame is really easily understood as the fear of disconnection: Is there something about me that, if other people know it or see it, that I won't be worthy of connection?
Well the problem is when we are looking for connection ... this is a problem because we ARE ALREADY connected, so no need to look for it ... looking for connection only feeds the idea that we are disconnected ... so this is a TRAP ... it leads to look for others recognition, therefore we start to 'DO' things in order to please others ... we become a 'DOER' and we cease 'BEING' ... we conform ourselves to what others expect from us ... and there is no freedom there, just a prison of conformism ...

So don't look for connection ... just stay real ... and stick to facts ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)

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