Losing yourself in thought

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rachMiel
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Re: Losing yourself in thought

Post by rachMiel » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:38 pm

Krishnamurti taught that it is possible for the human mind to be free from all psychological (self-driven) conditioning by being in a state of choiceless awareness. (He also said, just before he died, that alas no one he knew had every achieved this ... except him.)

I don't know if total freedom from psychological conditioning is possible. All I know is that I am deeply conditioned, and everyone I know seems to be conditioned to one degree or another, including all of the spiritual teachers I've met. So striving to achieve total freedom from psychological conditioning seems like a bit of a fool's errand. Does that sound right?
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Onceler
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Re: Losing yourself in thought

Post by Onceler » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:35 pm

rachMiel wrote:Krishnamurti taught that it is possible for the human mind to be free from all psychological (self-driven) conditioning by being in a state of choiceless awareness. (He also said, just before he died, that alas no one he knew had every achieved this ... except him.)

I don't know if total freedom from psychological conditioning is possible. All I know is that I am deeply conditioned, and everyone I know seems to be conditioned to one degree or another, including all of the spiritual teachers I've met. So striving to achieve total freedom from psychological conditioning seems like a bit of a fool's errand. Does that sound right?
Yes, I agree.....deeply conditioned. I believe who we are goes deeper than conditioning. On top of that is the human program which provides basic instincts and drives that we need to survive.....perhaps including the firing of gene markers. On top of we have cultural conditioning how deep and wide is that? Not sure I can take its measure. On top of that we have personal preference and desire. Can we untangle some of this? I think so, but certainly not all of it. When we touch on who we are we are free, in that second. Otherwise we surface in a stew of conditioning and lose ourselves and find ourselves in it over and over.

Now I will rest in the primordial peace and unconditioned bliss that is 1900 posts.

I'm certainly not talking about total freedom, but I think we can have moments of freedom within the matrix. Moments where our attention is not absorbed by fear an we can shift away. I believe, too, we can gradually uncondition ourselves, starting from the moment we see who we are. It happens naturally, albeit extremely slowly. Think too, that notions of freedom and enlightenment convolute this process.
Be present, be pleasant.

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rachMiel
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Re: Losing yourself in thought

Post by rachMiel » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:38 pm

Onceler wrote:When we touch on who we are we are free, in that second. Otherwise we surface in a stew of conditioning and lose ourselves and find ourselves in it over and over.
Yes! And in this sense, I (largely) agree with Krishnamurti: Absence of conditioning is possible. With two qualifiers: The non-conditioned state is only present when full choiceless awareness is present: no grasping towards or aversion from the present experience. And, even then, this state is probably not 100% un-conditioned, because most of us have deeply rooted subconscious psychological identities that keep churning away 24/7.
Now I will rest in the primordial peace and unconditioned bliss that is 1900 posts.
Blessed bee!
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

snowheight
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Re: Losing yourself in thought

Post by snowheight » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:03 pm

rachMiel wrote:Krishnamurti taught that it is possible for the human mind to be free from all psychological (self-driven) conditioning by being in a state of choiceless awareness. (He also said, just before he died, that alas no one he knew had every achieved this ... except him.)

I don't know if total freedom from psychological conditioning is possible. All I know is that I am deeply conditioned, and everyone I know seems to be conditioned to one degree or another, including all of the spiritual teachers I've met. So striving to achieve total freedom from psychological conditioning seems like a bit of a fool's errand. Does that sound right?
I'd opine that the psychological conditioning can only ever give the appearance of binding, and that it is the very specific appearance of a sense of identity that results in suffering and a focus of attention that is constantly and artificially constrained.

Once that constraint is lifted, in a relaxed embrace of the movement of life, psychological conditioning can be either noticed or not, but lots of it that isn't harmless just can't survive the conscious light of day.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

blissrunn14
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Re: Losing yourself in thought

Post by blissrunn14 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:54 pm

I don't like being lost in thought all my thoughts do is tell me bad scary things that make pain rise in my belly and causes me to do stupid self sabataging things.

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rachMiel
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Re: Losing yourself in thought

Post by rachMiel » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:47 pm

It's good that you know this about your mind. You can only avoid the snake's bite if you know where the snake is, right?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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