Osho

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alex
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Osho

Post by alex » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:38 am

Hi guys,
Just chasing other's perception of Osho. Do you think he was genuine or a manipulative cult leader? Something seems off to me and I have been part of a Sangha which included former students of his - their personal stories about their time with him include some really dark and heavy stuff.
Thanks.

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Webwanderer
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Re: Osho

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:02 pm

alex wrote:Do you think he was genuine or a manipulative cult leader?
Probably some of each. Those who read his teachings find undeniably clear insight. Those who lived with him found his human foibles. Like every teacher, or every person for that matter, take what feels right and valuable, and leave the rest. There's much to learn from Osho/Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, on many levels.

WW

beginnersmind
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Re: Osho

Post by beginnersmind » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:22 pm

Here is an article on him as both Osho and Rajneesh

http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/rajneesh.html

I had a book by him and personally I didn't find him all that insightful. This was before I read this article. I've thrown the book away since then. For me, when it comes to a spiritual teacher, I am not asking for perfection, but I would at least like the words of someone to be somewhat in line with their actions. Osho, not only didn't seem to walk the talk very well, but lived a life that seemed completely antithetical to his words. It was hedonistic, materialistic and he took advantage of his position, taking advantage of others while emotionally, physically, and sexually abusing some of his followers. His time in Oregon and the things that either he or his followers were accused and/or convicted of, when I read them, they sound like the mafia or something. Hardly a "spiritual leader".

U.G Krishnamurti, J. Krishanmurti, and Poonja didn't think too highly of him, calling him the world's biggest pimp, a pig, and his retreat a prison.

Some might say it's the message that counts and not the messenger, but if the messenger is a fraud, how much consideration should one take on the message? Besides, it's not like Osho was original and simply reworded spiritual messages. There are plenty of other sources in which to look to the message. I personally do not have time for people like Osho or Adi Da. I will not support these kinds of "spiritual leaders" by quoting them, buying any of their materials, etc.

I don't think we should passively condone these actions in the name of "spirituality". This happened in the 60's and 70's when Tibetan and Zen Buddhism became popular in the U.S. and a lot of scandals began to eventually come to light. People did not want to speak of out of fear of "ruining" the tradition itself or because they were scared of being ostracized by the groups/leaders they belonged
to, or not looking spiritual.

Eric

randomguy
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Re: Osho

Post by randomguy » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:40 pm

When I watch a video of DeMello I feel appreciation and happiness. Ramana, lovely. U.G Krishnamurti, highly amusing. Osho, creepy.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

alex
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Re: Osho

Post by alex » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:57 am

In spiritual circles it can be so easy to give complete fealty to a teacher. A dangerous game I think. I'm curious about Osho as my teacher was one of his students. Sitting with this teacher was really intense, the energy palpable, but there was a side to his teaching that I'm still unsure about. It was demanded that we be completely open and if we weren't then we were kind of made to feel excluded from the teaching and if we couldn't show up to volunteer days around the ashram then we were shunned and made to feel guilty. I understand that one has to go towards the darkness within but when it's all that is focussed on, night after night in satsang, with tears and emotional breakdowns it seems a little off. He also talked about being a 'wolf in sheep's clothing', his own words! Sounds like the classic way to describe a sociopath. Yes I think I'll maintain my 'un-sureness' and not believe him to be anything in particular.
It's so easy to be manipulated, especially when you take someone to be 'enlightened' or a portal to god - I think it's pretty important to be very discerning on this path and to follow your own heart.

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Onceler
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Re: Osho

Post by Onceler » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:24 am

Wise words, Alex. It is either fortunate or unfortunate, I don't know which, that I never found any teacher compelling. At this point in my life I feel almost finished with the whole spiritual scene. We are ultimately left with our lives and ourselves, with no one to bail us out or enlighten us.

Reality is a beautiful, cunning, ruthless teacher.
Be present, be pleasant.

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rachMiel
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Re: Osho

Post by rachMiel » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:37 am

Onceler wrote:At this point in my life I feel almost finished with the whole spiritual scene. We are ultimately left with our lives and ourselves, with no one to bail us out or enlighten us.
Yes! To borrow from a Zen story, at some point it's time to leave the monastery and go live under the bridge.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

alex
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Re: Osho

Post by alex » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:38 am

We are ultimately left with our lives and ourselves, with no one to bail us out or enlighten us.

Reality is a beautiful, cunning, ruthless teacher.
Hear, hear!

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Onceler
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Re: Osho

Post by Onceler » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:04 pm

rachMiel wrote:
Onceler wrote:At this point in my life I feel almost finished with the whole spiritual scene. We are ultimately left with our lives and ourselves, with no one to bail us out or enlighten us.
Yes! To borrow from a Zen story, at some point it's time to leave the monastery and go live under the bridge.
Yes! Although I don't think I was ever in a monastery.....and I prefe a house. :wink:
Be present, be pleasant.

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rachMiel
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Re: Osho

Post by rachMiel » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:47 pm

You can meet a lot of interesting trolls under bridges. (Here sometimes too. ;-) )
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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coriolis
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Re: Osho

Post by coriolis » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:41 pm

Webwanderer wrote:There's much to learn from Osho/Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, on many levels.
WW
Not the least of which is to avoid deifying creatures that, like yourself, are constituted of flesh and blood directed by an ego.
Osho's venality was generously underwritten by all those who regarded him as something he was not and could never have been.
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin

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Re: Osho

Post by randomguy » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:08 pm

alex wrote: It's so easy to be manipulated, especially when you take someone to be 'enlightened' or a portal to god - I think it's pretty important to be very discerning on this path and to follow your own heart.
So true. The only authority offering absolute truth is one's own authority. An '"other" as authority on truth is only an exercise in imagination.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

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Onceler
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Re: Osho

Post by Onceler » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:11 am

I'd like to know if anyone here follows a teacher, I guess in person, and what that relationship entails.

By the way, it sure is quiet around here.… What gives? I'm feeling rather quiet myself these days.
Last edited by Onceler on Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Be present, be pleasant.

beginnersmind
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Re: Osho

Post by beginnersmind » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:07 am

The only "spiritual" teacher I followed was my Qigong teacher :mrgreen: but I had to to learn it :mrgreen:

CaiHong
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Re: Osho

Post by CaiHong » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:32 am

I have vague memories of doing his shaking meditation a few times and a ridiculous motorcade of Rolls Royces ferrying him a short distance on the tabloid news, his followers changing their clothes from Orange to red but not much else of any insight or depth to what he was on about but I had an uneasy feeling he was taking the piss.

I listen to an ET every day for example I listened to a talk on meditation via YouTube, if I get up early early enough I can access youtube via VPN. I listened to the same video 3 times in a row and I listen to PON and ANW daily. What he says makes so much sense to me. There is nothing that he says that I can disagree with, I think I do have moments of presence. What I have noticed though on a form level is that I have increased energy. The periods of mild depression have all but disappeared, I don't react so much and if I do I am conscious while it is happening and can reel it in.

I understand ET is pointing out things that I need to experience myself. I like something he said I can't quote him verbatim but something like is it true for you, this is the bottom line for me, if what I am doing is not giving me positive results and I have deep reservations, it just doesn't feel right then I need to examine what I am doing.

CaiHong

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