Osho

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karmarider
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Re: Osho

Post by karmarider » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:22 am

Good insights, Alex.

Seems to me any teacher is only useful for his or her pointers and that only for a little while. If we don't outgrow the teacher, teaching hasn't happened.

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dijmart
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Re: Osho

Post by dijmart » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:17 pm

Onceler wrote: By the way, it sure is quiet around here.… What gives?
I personally have been sinking my teeth into life, instead of spending time here. Pretty much been spending time with family, getting caught up with friends and doing whatever the heck I want really and not thinking too much about spirituality. I realized something was a miss when I was able to get rattled easily by Phil, back when Phil posted here. I decided to get off of any forums for awhile and have a reality check!

Btw, nice to "see" you Onceler! Nice pic!
Take what you like and leave the rest.

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Onceler
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Re: Osho

Post by Onceler » Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:58 am

Sounds nice dijmart. I have a hard time mustering the enthusiasm as well.
Be present, be pleasant.

beginnersmind
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Re: Osho

Post by beginnersmind » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:59 pm

dijmart wrote:
Onceler wrote: By the way, it sure is quiet around here.… What gives?
I personally have been sinking my teeth into life, instead of spending time here. Pretty much been spending time with family, getting caught up with friends and doing whatever the heck I want really and not thinking too much about spirituality. I realized something was a miss when I was able to get rattled easily by Phil, back when Phil posted here. I decided to get off of any forums for awhile and have a reality check!

Btw, nice to "see" you Onceler! Nice pic!

IMO, spirituality is about sinking one's teeth into life. Sure, I think just about everyone that begins a spiritual journey may shrink from the world awhile. They make shrink from relationships, some of the old things they used to do, but there comes a time when life once again should be embraced.

It is like the old Zen saying, "First there are mountains and rivers. Then there are no mountains and rivers. Then there are mountains and rivers." Of course paraphrased.

Once we get passed thinking we have it all figured out with "cognitive enlightenment" and our beliefs from reading authors, books, or "teachers", then the real spiritual practice can begin, which is life itself.

I find spirituality to be so ordinary, but it is within this ordinary that lies the extraordinary.

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Onceler
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Re: Osho

Post by Onceler » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:08 am

Amen to that....life is ordinary and brilliant simultaneously.
Be present, be pleasant.

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DavidB
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Re: Osho

Post by DavidB » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:21 am

I'd like to know if anyone here follows a teacher, I guess in person, and what that relationship entails.

By the way, it sure is quiet around here.… What gives? I'm feeling rather quiet myself these days.

No, I have never had any teacher. Except if I can include my girlfriend, she has taught me more about being a better man than any spiritual teacher ever could. :wink:

I really like Eckhart Tolle though, I find for myself, he generates the most relatable message that I can understand. I also enjoy his talking voice and the way he amuses himself and then giggles. :lol: I don't know him personally though of course, so my impression of him as a person is completely lacking and quite frankly, irrelevant. I get quite a bit from his talks that impress me immensely, for which I am eternally grateful, but I certainly have no intention of elevating him to any level beyond what he is, a funny little man, with flaws and human foibles like the rest of us, but with a message I love and enjoy.

Yes it is quiet at the moment. It's a good thing we all here appreciate a bit of peace and quiet. :D
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Onceler
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Re: Osho

Post by Onceler » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:24 pm

I can remember about seven years ago I had to run where I really liked Adyashanti. I read almost all of his books and really thought he was the real deal. I even bought tickets to see him in Philadelphia and took the train into the city to see him on a cold, rainy April day. He spoke in a big old church, it was perhaps Catholic or Episcopalian....so there was this high church, sacred feeling to the whole event.

Adya was good and I really liked his talk, but something bothers me to this day whenever I look back on the memory. We sat and waited for him to come out and stared at this huge, ornate overstuffed armchair on an empty dias. There was all these people in the front quietly jockeying for position. I had never heard of trying to capture the 'resonance' of a spiritual leader before and finally figured out that that was what they were doing. Then Adya came out and sat in his big chair, sat in silence for a really long time, and then talked for a really long time.

I had never been to a satsang and didn't really know the format, so I was a little lost. But looking back what I remember was the big chair. It looked like a throne. I was thinking the other day, who sits in a big chair like that, the president? A top-flight lecturer on the college circuit? Someone giving a Ted talk? I don't think anybody but a spiritual leader would sit in a big chair. To his credit, maybe this is the chair they provided....I sort of lost my keenness for Adya after that day.
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alex
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Re: Osho

Post by alex » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:18 am

I too really like Adya, his teachings have often been so very helpful on this journey. I can just tell he's there - and he's had to walk that difficult path so has awesome pointers and advice, unlike Eckhart who was just kind of catapulted into self realisation. I think Eckhart is great for describing what it's like to live as truth but I'm not sure his methods on getting there are too spot on. Byron Katie is another great teacher whose teachings have been such a blessing. I think all teachers play their part in this world wide phenomenon of waking up, some resonate at different times and sometimes you don't need one at all. Just flow along and take what you need as you need it.
To his credit, maybe this is the chair they provided....I sort of lost my keenness for Adya after that day.
I wouldn't let a chair come in between you and Adya, like you said you don't truly know who chose it - and after all, a chair is God too :lol:

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Onceler
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Re: Osho

Post by Onceler » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:31 am

You're right, Alex. I still like him, but I just got a weird vibe about him that day. I can't really explain it other than who does that, other than a spiritual teacher? We give them so much more reverence than anyone in our culture, except maybe a celebrity, and that's a different kind of energy. Can't really put it into words other than my personality would never let me follow or join a teacher or group, perhaps to my detriment.
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Re: Osho

Post by Enlightened2B » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:57 am

I find the whole satsang movement rather comical. I've been to a few and watched countless videos over the last two years and I've gained great insight at times with the profound nature of the message themselves, (if one chooses to see the light within the message), but, the way many of these teachers are put on pedestals (the chair metaphor above) almost like rock stars, is rather amusing. The audience waits and waits and waits with bated breath for the teacher to open his/her mouth with wisdom, not taking into account that a teacher's experience/words, are just their own interpretations of their own experience and in no way, represent any kind of objective 'truths'. Truth is subjective in my opinion.

I find a lot of insight in the messages themselves, but also find them much more limiting these days. I studied with James Swartz for a bit with Vedanta. I remember he had a really good quote basically mocking the entire satsang movement as indicating that it was full of shit. He talked about how each person would get up there and try to talk softer and lower than the next person to sound more spiritual and I've gotten that vibe from Adyashanti at certain points when his voice trails off at the end of everything he says. Not a knock against his messages as per the other the thread which I quoted him, you can see how profound his pointers can be, but I find his and other satsangs to be amusing sometimes. As if to say.....is this whole thing serious? I don't know. I like the ones with mooji because he laughs like a jolly man at the ridiculousness of the whole thing. I guess it serves its purpose at times, until you're ready to see that the satsang movement, much like non-dual teachings, if held too tightly too, can become just another form of dogma.

So, I say, take what you will from the message, but don't get too attached to any teacher. As their message is just their own perspective and it's merely how you perceive it which will determine your own experience.

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Re: Osho

Post by alex » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:25 am

You're right, Alex. I still like him, but I just got a weird vibe about him that day. I can't really explain it other than who does that, other than a spiritual teacher? We give them so much more reverence than anyone in our culture, except maybe a celebrity, and that's a different kind of energy. Can't really put it into words other than my personality would never let me follow or join a teacher or group, perhaps to my detriment.
Just taking a stab in the dark but maybe you have authority issues? I just got a hint of that when you said 'my personality would never let me follow or join a teacher or group'. I think an authority issue is basically the fear of people having some kind of control or power over you - were you bought up with harsh discipline? I'm no shrink I just recognise it as I think I've had issues with it too. I find it very difficult to give someone power over me. I'm not sure on the right way to deal with it except maybe to embrace that underlying fear and uncertainty. To hold it in tenderness. Then maybe one is more able to be open to whatever wisdom said person has and to not inadvertently give your own power away through the fear of the other being able to take it.
Ahh so much inner work to be done on this darned path... Since learning about and seeing the fruit of inquiry I'm bringing it to all those parts of my psyche that I think need it. It is in all kinds of relationships and their dynamics that these parts reveal themselves the most.

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Onceler
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Re: Osho

Post by Onceler » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:26 pm

Could be.....or I'm just independent. :wink:
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Enlightened2B
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Re: Osho

Post by Enlightened2B » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:07 pm

alex wrote:
You're right, Alex. I still like him, but I just got a weird vibe about him that day. I can't really explain it other than who does that, other than a spiritual teacher? We give them so much more reverence than apnyone in our culture, except maybe a celebrity, and that's a different kind of energy. Can't really put it into words other than my personality would never let me follow or join a teacher or group, perhaps to my detriment.
Just taking a stab in the dark but maybe you have authority issues? I just got a hint of that when you said 'my personality would never let me follow or join a teacher or group'. I think an authority issue is basically the fear of people having some kind of control or power over you - were you bought up with harsh discipline? I'm no shrink I just recognise it as I think I've had issues with it too. I find it very difficult to give someone power over me. I'm not sure on the right way to deal with it except maybe to embrace that underlying fear and uncertainty. To hold it in tenderness. Then maybe one is more able to be open to whatever wisdom said person has and to not inadvertently give your own power away through the fear of the other being able to take it.
Ahh so much inner work to be done on this darned path... Since learning about and seeing the fruit of inquiry I'm bringing it to all those parts of my psyche that I think need it. It is in all kinds of relationships and their dynamics that these parts reveal themselves the most.
Sorry to keep budding in here, but I took interest in the conversation. I think you're making a lot more here out of what Onceler said than what there is. Just because someone does not want to put a teacher or teaching on a pedestal and follow or join a particular group, does not mean someone has authority issues. If anything, it means, they value their own experience/free will enough to follow their OWN path. I've seen Onceler talk many times on this forum about Jon Sherman and how Sherman has greatly influenced him. There's a difference between resonating/aligning with a particular message than allowing a teacher to have control over you. I don't even know why you'd want to give power to another teacher/teaching/group over yourself. Isn't your own experience more valuable than what any teacher or teaching can possibly put forth?

Like Onceler said, you can easily look at that from another perspective and call it 'being independent'. I put no teacher on any pedestal. If a message clicks with me then i find appreciation in that message and can utilize it in my own experience. If a piece of music clicks with me, I appreciate the piece of music, but I don't worship the musician. I might want to hear more of what that musician has to put out there, but that's not a great analogy because in spirituality, if you get the message once, you get the message. Spiritual teachers and groups can become a form of addiction when people dogmatically give their free will away to them and many people follow along thinking that a teacher's word represents an objective truth. I move around a lot from teacher, to teaching, to other areas of spirituality and try to see what works for me in my own experience. Granted they all come together pointing to the same thing the basic message of 'I AM'. However, one teacher's experience is only THEIR experience. So, why would you want to follow too tightly along with any one teacher or group of people who are only speaking from their own subjectivity?

I think having the free will to be your own subjective unique perspective is a beautiful and loving thing.

Just my opinion.

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dijmart
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Re: Osho

Post by dijmart » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:58 pm

beginnersmind wrote:
IMO, spirituality is about sinking one's teeth into life. .
Great, then I'm doing just fine then... :wink:
It is like the old Zen saying, "First there are mountains and rivers. Then there are no mountains and rivers. Then there are mountains and rivers." Of course paraphrased.
Ack, wanted to get away from all the typical sayings and quotes, regurgitated over and over, thanks for the example!
Take what you like and leave the rest.

Enlightened2B
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Re: Osho

Post by Enlightened2B » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:09 pm

beginnersmind wrote:
dijmart wrote:
Onceler wrote:
IMO, spirituality is about sinking one's teeth into life. Sure, I think just about everyone that begins a spiritual journey may shrink from the world awhile. They make shrink from relationships, some of the old things they used to do, but there comes a time when life once again should be embraced.

It is like the old Zen saying, "First there are mountains and rivers. Then there are no mountains and rivers. Then there are mountains and rivers." Of course paraphrased.

Once we get passed thinking we have it all figured out with "cognitive enlightenment" and our beliefs from reading authors, books, or "teachers", then the real spiritual practice can begin, which is life itself.

I find spirituality to be so ordinary, but it is within this ordinary that lies the extraordinary.
I think there are so many varieties of definitions for the term 'spirituality'. I appreciate your opinion on it as I do others. I think spirituality is whatever you perceive it to be. For one person, it might be following zen sayings and quotes and non-duality books and teachers and satsangs and for another, it might be something very different in trying to connect to their higher selves or it might be a combination of things like it is for me. For me, right now, I'm very interested in past life regression and understanding my soul's incarnated plan and connecting to higher levels of Being through energy healing and meditation. Yet, I also lose myself a lot in thought and those non-dual/zen quotes work very well for me for bringing me grounding. I don't like to limit myself. Of course, this is constantly evolving and changing, meaning there is no one standard way to interpret spirituality as I see it. I think all paths of spirituality serve their purpose for the time you feel it is necessary to utilize that particular path. Opening yourself up though, requires you to really expand your perspective and embrace the previously perceived un-embraceable. Embracing perspectives outside of our own, even the more limited onese. That too me, is true spirituality if I had a static, objective definition..... Invoking unconditional love into every experience.

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