Cultivating a taste for reality

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EnterZenFromThere
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by EnterZenFromThere » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:35 pm

rachMiel wrote:External in the sense that it is perceivable by an observing mind, but is not created by this mind.
Are you sure mind does not create the perception /actuality of an external reality?
rachMiel wrote:You can ignore pretty much all the external stuff and pay attention instead to internal stuff
The external stuff is a projection of the internal stuff - favouring one over the other creates dissonance.
rachMiel wrote:Or you can expand your awareness to embrace the bigger picture, which includes the external stuff. Take a walk and be aware of the trees, birds, sky, sounds, etc.
I like that.
rachMiel wrote: What I'm exploring here is whether the first approach, living in your head, is in some way "inferior to" the second way. Is there something innately good, in terms of spiritual growth, about being aware of the external world?
In my opinion it's a valuable exploration. My own exploration in this area currently leads me to believe that considering any aspect of experience as superior or inferior to others creates a movement away from alignment with the pristine non-judgement of the Moment. If you say that being present is superior to not being present you create a situation where you desire alignment with the moment and fear non-alignment with the moment. This, in itself, is the attitude of disconnection/duality not the attitude of connection/non-duality. It gives fuel to the fire - agitating the vibrations. In my evolving experience, accepting whatever experience arises within the moment with non-judgmental non-attaching awareness is the most effective way to advance (this including accepting when you are not accepting... :shock:).

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EnterZenFromThere
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by EnterZenFromThere » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:03 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:Is there anything in your experience that is not vibration?
Experience is vibration.
Enlightened2B wrote:What would a non vibrational experience even be like?
Eternal peace.
Enlightened2B wrote:Can you know this directly?
Yes - through non-judgmental awareness of your momentary experience your awareness expands. Through this expansion you experience deeper/subtler realities which can also be let go of through non-judgmental awareness, leading to further expansion. This reaches a threshold where one becomes a level of awareness that is able to transcend vibration and become aware of the subtlest level of reality - pure awareness / the Moment itself. This is a partial enlightenment. Beyond this, continued non-judgmental awareness leads to further alignment with pure awareness until one becomes pure awareness in full meaning one is synonymous with pure awareness meaning one is the direct experience of simultaneously nothing and everything.
Enlightened2B wrote: more like a conceptual place that's very easy to create via thought, instead of just embracing your experience.
Concepts can be helpful in advancement as they are an experience arising and subsiding from/within the Moment. Embracing concepts and embracing experience is the same thing. Physical sensations and OBE sensations are concepts. I find this concept helpful as it keeps me honest. It creates a benchmark. If I wonder whether I have further to go in my journey I can ask - "am I experiencing nothing and everything right now" - "no" ok, I'm not there yet. No judgment of that. Just, an awareness that I have further to go.
Enlightened2B wrote:What is the absolute other than a mere concept?
The only non-conceptual reality and the origin of all conceptual realities.
Enlightened2B wrote:Are you not the absolute right now experiencing as/through vibration?
Conceptually, yes. But this is not my direct experience as this would require the absence of all other experience. I am experiencing physical sensations so I am not directly experiencing the present. Just as if I were looking at the furniture in a room I am experiencing the purity of the space in which this room exists. To experience that would require the absence of all furniture so only the space remained.
Enlightened2B wrote:Is knowing yourself intimately in every experience not transcending vibration in itself?
The progressive non-judgmental awareness of all the arises in the moment is the non-attachment to the arisings of the moment which progressively leads to the transcending of vibration. Attaching yourself to that which arises in the moment is a movement away from the transcending of vibration.
Enlightened2B wrote:If that perspective works for you, then that's great.
It does, and it is :)
Enlightened2B wrote:But, it sounds like nihilism to me.
It's your choice whether or not and how you label that which arises within your experience. I am talking about acceptance of what is and how this leads to the direct experience of the fundamental truth underlying all realities.
Enlightened2B wrote:Besides, who says you have to identify with alive-ness? Who says you have to identify with anything? Can't you just embrace it?
It depends what you mean by embracing. If you are embracing in a way that is full of the tensions of attempting to move toward a reality that you have labelled/identified as favourable then you are creating more identity/judgment. This creates more tension which is unpleasant. This leads to fear and avoidance. So desire and fear are fundamentally the same and are properties of attachment/identity/judgment. Embracing in a way that is fully accepting of whatever arises as the experience of the moment - completely free of judgment/labelling/identity unwinds this tension and moves the individual toward greater peace. This peace too should not be judged/labelled/identified with so deeper peace can be reached.

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rachMiel
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by rachMiel » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:55 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:Are you sure mind does not create the perception /actuality of an external reality?
Sure am I of nothing! :-) Though I have strong doubts about Xenu.
rachMiel wrote:You can ignore pretty much all the external stuff and pay attention instead to internal stuff
EZFT wrote:The external stuff is a projection of the internal stuff ...
Are you sure ... ? ;-)
rachMiel wrote: What I'm exploring here is whether the first approach, living in your head, is in some way "inferior to" the second way. Is there something innately good, in terms of spiritual growth, about being aware of the external world?
In my opinion it's a valuable exploration. My own exploration in this area currently leads me to believe that considering any aspect of experience as superior or inferior to others creates a movement away from alignment with the pristine non-judgement of the Moment. If you say that being present is superior to not being present you create a situation where you desire alignment with the moment and fear non-alignment with the moment. This, in itself, is the attitude of disconnection/duality not the attitude of connection/non-duality. It gives fuel to the fire - agitating the vibrations. In my evolving experience, accepting whatever experience arises within the moment with non-judgmental non-attaching awareness is the most effective way to advance (this including accepting when you are not accepting... :shock:).
This is very close to the fruit of my previous exploration. And wonderful fruit it is ... to feel that all is perfect, not in need of any fixing.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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rachMiel
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by rachMiel » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:00 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
rachMiel wrote:What I'm exploring here is whether the first approach, living in your head, is in some way "inferior to" the second way. Is there something innately good, in terms of spiritual growth, about being aware of the external world?
From my own point of view, I wouldn't say 'good/bad' or 'inferior/superior', but I think it's all about vibration and the point here to kind of move up the ladder of vibration, not in the sense of distancing yourself from life, but taking those moments to simply stop and observe your experience whatever may be arising. So, aligning with Being, in any given opportunity is moving up the ladder of vibration, more so, than being in your head, which would be lower vibration. Ultimately, the higher vibration you go, the more you align with your nature. But, there's a lot more to vibration than just that.
Ladder of vibration? Please explain. :-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Baba Bozo
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by Baba Bozo » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:09 pm

rachMiel wrote:For those who live largely in their heads, reality (actuality, what is) can be a bitter pill to swallow
The reality actually is that a dominant characteristic of the species human beings is the experience of living in our heads, a virtual reality type realm which is a melting pot of the "real world" beyond our minds and our human imaginations. It is in this symbolic inner world that we hold the notion of "cultivating a taste for reality".

The statement "be here now" suggests not that we be, not that we accept the chronic very human reality of living in our heads, but that we become something else, something bigger, better, more glamorous, new and improved etc.

In order to achieve this becoming, we discard now and introduce time. It is imagined that we will become this something else, something bigger, better, new and improved after we read more Tolle books, or study all the New Age literature, or follow a guru, or meditate, or analyze our thoughts, or transcend, or evolve, or see the light, or any of a thousand of other things. We chase all of these things not to embrace the reality of being human, but to escape it by diving deeper in to the dream.

We could look in the mirror and accept the reality of what we already are. We are ordinary. We are small. We are nothing special. We are kind of a mess. We have various problems. No matter what we have, we will always want something else. We experience joy, we experience suffering. We spend most of our short lives living in our heads. We are human.

We are human. Like every species ever created we are incredibly beautiful, and incredibly limited. There is no book we can read, no teacher we can follow, no method or tactic or understanding which can change the basic facts of our existence which were put in place a million years before we were born.

We are human. And because we are human, we will reject being human, and run off chasing something else. It is our very human way.

Some people have learned how to make a living by feeding our rejection of reality, of what actually is, of who we really are as humans. They have sold us a glorious dream of something wonderful perpetually just over the horizon, and we've embraced the dream as it allows us to eternally chase the inventions of our own little minds.

We are human. This is what we do. And because we are human, we will lie to ourselves about what we do. We do that too. :-)

We are the playwright, the director, the actor and the audience, placing ourselves center stage in the spotlight of a comic circus soap opera which will be over in the blink of an eye, returning us to the eternity of silence from where we came.

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Rob X
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by Rob X » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:45 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote: By talking to people who described the process by which they transcended vibration and experienced that which was beyond vibration. It is not something I have experienced directly.
Who are these people? I'd love to read their testimonies.

The very act of experiencing implies an interaction, shift or exchange of some kind. I would classify that movement as subtle vibration.
EnterZenFromThere wrote:Emptiness is the Absolute - which is everything and nothing.
That's quite a dogmatic statement. There are other interpretations of the concept. In Buddhism emptiness means empty of inherent existence. Ultimately there are no separate, independent things only (what amounts to) process.
EnterZenFromThere wrote:I do not know it. I only experience what I do within the moment. This includes the sense of a progressive greater alignment with the Moment itself.
Okay. What I was getting at is how can something be encountered, known, registered, remembered and reported without subtle movement of some kind.

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by Enlightened2B » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:18 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:Is there anything in your experience that is not vibration?
Experience is vibration.


Yes it is
E2B:Can you know this directly?

Jack said: Yes - through non-judgmental awareness of your momentary experience your awareness expands. Through this expansion you experience deeper/subtler realities which can also be let go of through non-judgmental awareness, leading to further expansion. This reaches a threshold where one becomes a level of awareness that is able to transcend vibration and become aware of the subtlest level of reality - pure awareness / the Moment itself. This is a partial enlightenment. Beyond this, continued non-judgmental awareness leads to further alignment with pure awareness until one becomes pure awareness in full meaning one is synonymous with pure awareness meaning one is the direct experience of simultaneously nothing and everything.


Sure, can't disagree with the first part of it, in that expansion through experience, leads to a far deeper experience. Absolutely. However, the rest of it in bold is assumption, as you're talking about completely transcending vibration and that's nothing you or I have ever experienced directly and that's my point about it being a concept. You claimed you've never experienced it directly:
Rob said:"Can I ask, how you come by your concept of the absolute EZ?"

Jack said: By talking to people who described the process by which they transcended vibration and experienced that which was beyond vibration. It is not something I have experienced directly.
Therefore, just like you told me in recent threads ironically enough, that relying on experiences of other people who have had non physical experiences (NDE's, reincarnation, etc) is also an assumption, which you told me I was making (which I don't fully disagree with in a certain context), yet, you're doing the exact same thing here by relying on another person's experience of 'the absolute'. Ironically enough, even wanting to unconditionally accept reality as it is, is your own desire. The desire to transcend desire is a desire in itself.

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by Enlightened2B » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:36 pm

rachMiel wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:
rachMiel wrote:What I'm exploring here is whether the first approach, living in your head, is in some way "inferior to" the second way. Is there something innately good, in terms of spiritual growth, about being aware of the external world?
From my own point of view, I wouldn't say 'good/bad' or 'inferior/superior', but I think it's all about vibration and the point here to kind of move up the ladder of vibration, not in the sense of distancing yourself from life, but taking those moments to simply stop and observe your experience whatever may be arising. So, aligning with Being, in any given opportunity is moving up the ladder of vibration, more so, than being in your head, which would be lower vibration. Ultimately, the higher vibration you go, the more you align with your nature. But, there's a lot more to vibration than just that.
Ladder of vibration? Please explain. :-)
Would rather not delve into it in this thread, unless you force me into talking about it 8)

But, I'll just say quickly that Energy has vibration, that's based upon emotions, etc. The way I see it from my own limited perspective is that life is vibration and the context of the game of life is to kind of move up the ladder of vibration in the context of the 'greater reality' to 'move back to Oneness' (not that everything isn't already one). I feel that this entire universe and multiple universes potentially is all part of the game of One or many potential 'One's' and it's kind of a game of moving out from itself and bringing itself back into itself. Expansion and Contraction. Like anything in life that's replicated fractally in physical life as well. Life and Death. So, Love being the highest frequency, closest to Oneness and fear being the lower, denser vibration farther away from Oneness. The idea being moving closer to that higher vibration of Love through awakening to our true nature as Eckhart Tolle teaches, which ultimately moves us closer to Oneness and that's where that non-judgmental Awareness comes in.

Of course this is just an idea of my own that I have no experience to know if this is true or not.

But, let's save this topic for another thread for another day.

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by rachMiel » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:06 pm

Baba Bozo wrote:We are the playwright, the director, the actor and the audience, placing ourselves center stage in the spotlight of a comic circus soap opera which will be over in the blink of an eye, returning us to the eternity of silence from where we came.
Dominus vobiscum.
Et cum spiritu tuo.
Ahh, men ...
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Rob X
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by Rob X » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:28 pm

rachMiel wrote: And wonderful fruit it is ... to feel that all is perfect, not in need of any fixing.
I would agree with this wholeheartedly - but here we encounter the paradox of the nothing to do teachings.

That very illumination that nothing is needed, that everything is already perfect as it is, is itself a glimpse of the great perfection of existence. It's an existential realisation.

In other words, you can't get the sense that all is perfect without waking up (at least momentarily) to the perfection of the dance of existence as it is.

As Tony Parsons used to say: There is absolutely nothing to attain except the realisation that there is absolutely nothing to attain.

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by Onceler » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:51 pm

Baba Bozo wrote:
rachMiel wrote:For those who live largely in their heads, reality (actuality, what is) can be a bitter pill to swallow
The reality actually is that a dominant characteristic of the species human beings is the experience of living in our heads, a virtual reality type realm which is a melting pot of the "real world" beyond our minds and our human imaginations. It is in this symbolic inner world that we hold the notion of "cultivating a taste for reality".

The statement "be here now" suggests not that we be, not that we accept the chronic very human reality of living in our heads, but that we become something else, something bigger, better, more glamorous, new and improved etc.

In order to achieve this becoming, we discard now and introduce time. It is imagined that we will become this something else, something bigger, better, new and improved after we read more Tolle books, or study all the New Age literature, or follow a guru, or meditate, or analyze our thoughts, or transcend, or evolve, or see the light, or any of a thousand of other things. We chase all of these things not to embrace the reality of being human, but to escape it by diving deeper in to the dream.

We could look in the mirror and accept the reality of what we already are. We are ordinary. We are small. We are nothing special. We are kind of a mess. We have various problems. No matter what we have, we will always want something else. We experience joy, we experience suffering. We spend most of our short lives living in our heads. We are human.

We are human. Like every species ever created we are incredibly beautiful, and incredibly limited. There is no book we can read, no teacher we can follow, no method or tactic or understanding which can change the basic facts of our existence which were put in place a million years before we were born.

We are human. And because we are human, we will reject being human, and run off chasing something else. It is our very human way.

Some people have learned how to make a living by feeding our rejection of reality, of what actually is, of who we really are as humans. They have sold us a glorious dream of something wonderful perpetually just over the horizon, and we've embraced the dream as it allows us to eternally chase the inventions of our own little minds.

We are human. This is what we do. And because we are human, we will lie to ourselves about what we do. We do that too. :-)

We are the playwright, the director, the actor and the audience, placing ourselves center stage in the spotlight of a comic circus soap opera which will be over in the blink of an eye, returning us to the eternity of silence from where we came.
Well stated. I agree. I am finding reality clearer and increasingly satisfying. Today I would say we get closer to reality as we drop distortions, however you define them. We see the world with our minds, as the clutter of our mind clears our perception clears.
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by Enlightened2B » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:36 pm

All ultimately IS perfect. How can it not be if it simply is as is?

Yet, a common trap which is often found in neo-advaita is that "there is nothing to do". Again from the perspective of non-judgmental Awareness or Being, this seems true. If it exists as is, then it can't be wrong. Yet, if there were literally nothing to do, then we'd all just be sitting here doing zilch all day. Why are we writing to each other on this board? Is it not desire which leads us to go to our computers and log in to the site to type messages? Why awaken? Why seek help if needed? It's a nihilistic trap to think that you can fully transcend desire fully in a human body and I think most of us here have realized this. I'm seeking therapy now. Is this a desire of mine? Perhaps I should just not seek help and just "allow".

There is no paradox as I see it. We come into this life to awaken and part of awakening is healing whether that includes therapy, meditation or a combination of modalities. Human existence is not meant to outright transcend vibrational reality. We don't know the full picture of our existence here and purpose. So why pretend we do? No one can fully know and it's naive to latch on to a teaching because one person claimed to transcend vibrational reality. One purpose which is clear to me is that we are here to work WITH vibration to work out what we need to work out (hence why there is separation at this level) so that we can move up vibrationally. Move up meaning aligning with that non--judgmental nature. But likely far more to understand than just that. Even this is just another concept.

So yes, in a grand sense, nothing to do because there's ultimately no "separate" one to do. But this statement can also bemisinterpreted contextually into nihilism.

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by rachMiel » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:18 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:The way I see it from my own limited perspective is that life is vibration and the context of the game of life is to kind of move up the ladder of vibration in the context of the 'greater reality' to 'move back to Oneness' (not that everything isn't already one).
I think of us as lost children yearning to find our way home.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by rachMiel » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:24 pm

Rob X wrote:As Tony Parsons used to say: There is absolutely nothing to attain except the realisation that there is absolutely nothing to attain.
You mean there really *is* no Santa Claus?

Interestingly, most people have to go through a long-ish period of attempting and failing to attain IT before a quote like this can be understood. It's like you can't get away without doing the work.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Post by Enlightened2B » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:09 pm

rachMiel wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:The way I see it from my own limited perspective is that life is vibration and the context of the game of life is to kind of move up the ladder of vibration in the context of the 'greater reality' to 'move back to Oneness' (not that everything isn't already one).
I think of us as lost children yearning to find our way home.
Isn't that what the majority of influence for our modern day art and music is based upon? The notion of finding our way home? Granted, it's often misinterpreted into conditional based love obsessions (as the focal point for much pop and rock music), but I feel the premise for all of us at birth is to find our way home and that's the whole game. It's ingrained in us as sort of a starting point in the game of life and the way home from that point forward, merely differs for each perspective depending on so many factors....But, to think that 'home' is already what/where we are? :shock: I remember when I first heard Eckhart say that. It was quite a shock to me.

I mean think about it Rach.....is it possible to not be home? What would that even be like? Isn't the whole epiphany of 'finding our way home', merely the realization that we never left? And the only reason it might appear that we left is because of identification with narrative/thought/mind/ego? Home merely....just IS. And yet, we have all of these conversations ultimately about nothing on this forum. Kind of like a Seinfeld episode. Not to say that I don't enjoy the conversations. I do.

I find it so interesting that going 'home' merely means connecting with that non-judgmental place that we already are, even amidst the compulsive thinking and hallucinating about rabbits, we still never left home. It's just perceived that way. Perception is ultimately far more meaningful in the long run than any place or destination we 'get to' because perception equates to experience. There is no experience without perception. And all that we gain out of life is in the meat of experience.

So, ultimately, there is something to "do". But, even within the 'doing', it is as is.

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