Cultivating a taste for reality

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby dijmart » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:30 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Yet the even bigger point....how does the absence of an experience equate to a form of "absolute"? None of us know for sure what happens in deep sleep because there is no mind active to know!

These are just concepts. Nisargadatta had some good points. I read the "pointers" book two years ago, but his notion of deep sleep is the same as taught in traditional Vedanta which I studied for a time. I don't take any of these sages including the Buddha to be any more enlightened than the most profound NDE's. I will bet that many of those who wrote the Upanishads and such had incredibly profound experiences (likely non physical) but who can say that any experienced an "absolute, sensory less" state of sorts since it's all being interpreted by you.


I was in a coma once for 5 days. When I woke up everyone wanted to know, where were you, do you remember anything?...my answer, not a thing! I remember nothing! To this day...nothing. All I can say is I remember this....then waking up now. Like waking from sleep, you know you were asleep only because you know you have no memory of what happened while you were asleep, except mine was for 5 days.
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby Enlightened2B » Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:10 am

dijmart wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:Yet the even bigger point....how does the absence of an experience equate to a form of "absolute"? None of us know for sure what happens in deep sleep because there is no mind active to know!

These are just concepts. Nisargadatta had some good points. I read the "pointers" book two years ago, but his notion of deep sleep is the same as taught in traditional Vedanta which I studied for a time. I don't take any of these sages including the Buddha to be any more enlightened than the most profound NDE's. I will bet that many of those who wrote the Upanishads and such had incredibly profound experiences (likely non physical) but who can say that any experienced an "absolute, sensory less" state of sorts since it's all being interpreted by you.


I was in a coma once for 5 days. When I woke up everyone wanted to know, where were you, do you remember anything?...my answer, not a thing! I remember nothing! To this day...nothing. All I can say is I remember this....then waking up now. Like waking from sleep, you know you were asleep only because you know you have no memory of what happened while you were asleep, except mine was for 5 days.


Wow, 5 day coma! That's a long time. And how incredible it is, that you go into the coma and wake up and it appears that no time has lapsed and yet five full days passed.

Yeah, the same exact thing happens to me when I go 'under' for procedures. I find it interesting now when I go under because I try to stay aware as long as I can just to see what is actually happening. It's actually really cool (and the best sleep I've ever gotten hehe). I see the doctor's faces as I get groggier and the next thing I know literally (as if it were in an instant)...Bang.....I'm in the recovery room. No mind, no experience. Just......nothing.

Granted, I'm sure that 'Nothing' is 'Something' in a greater context, but who am I to know for sure what is actually happening in Deep Sleep.
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:35 am

Of course it is also possible that you simply don't remember what took place while you were 'out'. Many people claim that they never dream. It's been demonstrated however, that everyone dreams. Some just don't recall them when they awaken.

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby Enlightened2B » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:52 am

After all, if we are basically all having OBE's while we sleep each night (that we often don't remember), then deep sleep or coma or whatever can very likely be another 'experience' that we simply don't recall because of our limited human minds. Great point that I did not consider.
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby dijmart » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:56 pm

I also don't have/recall dreams, except maybe part of one every few months. So, it's possible I had dreamed or whatever and have no recall of it in deep sleep and the coma.
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby rachMiel » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:30 pm

Webwanderer wrote:Of course it is also possible that you simply don't remember what took place while you were 'out'. Many people claim that they never dream. It's been demonstrated however, that everyone dreams. Some just don't recall them when they awaken.

Krishnamurti said he didn't dream. Sounds unlikely to me ... but who knows?
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:43 pm

If Krishnamurti said he didn't dream, maybe it's because he believed it and that belief created the non-remembrance. Without being hooked up to an EEG or some such brain monitoring equipment, how could one be sure?

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby rachMiel » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:25 pm

Webwanderer wrote:If Krishnamurti said he didn't dream, maybe it's because he believed it and that belief created the non-remembrance. Without being hooked up to an EEG or some such brain monitoring equipment, how could one be sure?

Yes. And thank you for the "maybe" ... which demonstrates that you are exploring, not asserting. :-)
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:46 pm

rachMiel wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:If Krishnamurti said he didn't dream, maybe it's because he believed it and that belief created the non-remembrance. Without being hooked up to an EEG or some such brain monitoring equipment, how could one be sure?

Yes. And thank you for the "maybe" ... which demonstrates that you are exploring, not asserting. :-)

Are you asserting that I'm not asserting??? :lol:

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby rachMiel » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:25 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
rachMiel wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:If Krishnamurti said he didn't dream, maybe it's because he believed it and that belief created the non-remembrance. Without being hooked up to an EEG or some such brain monitoring equipment, how could one be sure?

Yes. And thank you for the "maybe" ... which demonstrates that you are exploring, not asserting. :-)

Are you asserting that I'm not asserting??? :lol:

Hmm ... allow me to try again:

Thank you for the "maybe" ... which might (or might not (or somewhere in-between (or outside of))) mean that you are exploring, rather than asserting.
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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:38 pm

This language thing we have to communicate through can be tough. Where's a good mind meld when you need one?

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Re: Cultivating a taste for reality

Postby dijmart » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:00 am

Webwanderer wrote:If Krishnamurti said he didn't dream, maybe it's because he believed it and that belief created the non-remembrance. Without being hooked up to an EEG or some such brain monitoring equipment, how could one be sure?

WW


I use to dream nightly many years ago. One day the memory of a dream just wasn't there and usually isn't but a few times each year. It's not because I believe I don't dream or should I say that wouldn't make sense for me, since I use to dream. And had no reason to have a belief that I don't dream, sinice it was my experience for many years before they stopped. However, is it an issue,with recall instead of not dreaming? This I don't know, I do know jen has said she also doesn't dream...or doesn't recall. Why would some have recall and others dont? Hmm, I don't know...
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