Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

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Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby rachMiel » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:14 pm

As a corollary to the "What is the purpose of life" thread, I ask unto you:

What ultimately matters?

Clearly there are lots of things that matter relatively to each of us: health, happiness, personal evolution, etc.

But is there anything that matters ultimately, for the totality (all that is), rather than to this or that particular organism?
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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby rachMiel » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:22 pm

I guess what I'm doing in these two Campfire threads is asking:

Is there an ultimate meaning to this?

"This" being the totality, what is, all that is, etc.

I suspect that the answer is no. Or, more accurately, the question is flawed ... because "meaning" is a human concept, and the question attempts to apply this concept to an ultimate reality that is concept-less.
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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby rachMiel » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:27 pm

Or maybe what I'm really doing is asking if there is an ultimate reality, absolute truth, ground.

If there is, its existence goes a long way to providing satisfying answers to the two campfire questions:

Q: What ultimately matters?
A: The ground.

Q: What is our purpose?
A: To (consciously) be the ground.
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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:28 pm

I like these camp fire tales. Sounds like we ponder over similar questions (and I imagine many others here do too).

Personally, I see the ultimate perspective as being inclusive of all individual small perspectives, all collective large perspectives and that which is beyond perspectives(?).

So, ultimately, every single issue, no matter how seemingly small and insignificant or how seemingly large and significant, is what ultimately matters. It matters because it exists. It exists because it matters. Boom!
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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby rachMiel » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:29 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:I like these camp fire tales. Sounds like we ponder over similar questions (and I imagine many others here do too).

Yes ... I love that about this group. :-)

Personally, I see the ultimate perspective as being inclusive of all individual small perspectives, all collective large perspectives and that which is beyond perspectives(?).

With you there. The individual in the whole, the whole in the individual. Imo only seeing the whole and relegating the "apparent" parts to the realm of un-truth, non-reality ... is as limited a view as only seeing the parts.

So, ultimately, every single issue, no matter how seemingly small and insignificant or how seemingly large and significant, is what ultimately matters. It matters because it exists. It exists because it matters. Boom!

I fathom and agree ... in theory.

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour

In practice it doesn't always feel that way. Sometimes what I am doing (or not doing) seems utterly insignificant in comparison to what I image-ine The World (i.e. others) to be doing. It's the "How come they're enlightened and I'm still stuck here in Hoboken, New Jersey?!" kinda syndrome. ;-)
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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:17 pm

rachMiel wrote:What ultimately matters?

Interesting way you posed the question. Isn't "ultimate matter" an oxymoron and limited by nature? Hmm, limitations of language, what can you do?

In a nutshell (a very big nutshell, like infinite big, so big it's not even big it just is) what 'matters' is the evolution of consciousness and being. Capitalize those if you want. That said, from our human perspective we are woefully lacking in our capacity to understand that process with full clarity. That seems to be by design. It comes down, from a greater consciousness perspective, that 'it's all good'.

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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby rachMiel » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:41 pm

Webwanderer wrote:In a nutshell (a very big nutshell, like infinite big, so big it's not even big it just is) what 'matters' is the evolution of consciousness and being.

Evolution for evolution's sake? A process that was set in motion way back and keeps churning, because that is its nature: to churn.

Or evolution per some overarching design, towards some greater/higher good, awakening perhaps? Chardin's Omega Point sort of thing? Or Buddhism's eventual enlightenment of all sentient beings?

Does the whole of existence (the totality) "want" all its parts to become consciously aware of it? Is that the raison d'être of being?
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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby dijmart » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:36 pm

When someone's dreaming, can there be said that there is a purpose to the dream? When the dream can become at any point a nightmare, perhaps what would matter is that the dreamer knows they are dreaming. When the dreamer awakes and knows it was all just a dream purpose of the dream goes out the window.
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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:49 pm

dijmart wrote:When someone's dreaming, can there be said that there is a purpose to the dream? When the dream can become at any point a nightmare, perhaps what would matter is that the dreamer knows they are dreaming. When the dreamer awakes and knows it was all just a dream purpose of the dream goes out the window.

Any of this could be true, but that just reinforces the point that it's all about evolution/expansion of consciousness and being.

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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:58 pm

R: In practice it doesn't always feel that way. Sometimes what I am doing (or not doing) seems utterly insignificant in comparison to what I image-ine The World (i.e. others) to be doing. It's the "How come they're enlightened and I'm still stuck here in Hoboken, New Jersey?!" kinda syndrome.

I hear you brah. I guess it comes with the territory in this relatively human disconnection (for the majority of us within our modern culture at least). Maybe learning how to appreciate the weakness of our limitation is one of the greatest gifts of our condition(?). Easier said than done.

What techniques to you do to move deeper?
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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:05 pm

WW: Any of this could be true, but that just reinforces the point that it's all about evolution/expansion of consciousness and being.

I've been pondering lately about something I wonder if you or anyone here as any ideas about (it's relevant to the thread). If pure consciousness is the origin of everything - how can it evolve? How can it make anything new to learn from if it is the origin of every experience? Hasn't it already learned everything that is possible to be learned?

I understand how an individual reflected aspect of pure consciousness can go through a process of learning, but if pure consciousness itself is beyond time, matter, dimensions of experience, it has no mechanism by which it can learn - it already knows everything.

Perhaps it just enjoys going reverberating itself into lesser aspects to engage in learning experiences? If that were the case then the purpose of life would not be the evolution of pure consciousness, but rather, experience for experiences sake.

I guess this is pretty similar to what has already been discussed...
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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:08 pm

rachMiel wrote:Evolution for evolution's sake? A process that was set in motion way back and keeps churning, because that is its nature: to churn.

Or evolution per some overarching design, towards some greater/higher good, awakening perhaps? Chardin's Omega Point sort of thing? Or Buddhism's eventual enlightenment of all sentient beings?

I see these questions coming from more of a human perspective. Awakening in the human context may have a profound value in that unique context, but in the Greater Reality it's just one footnote in and eternal and infinite list of contributions.

What is the ultimate limit of expansion in consciousness and being? Is there one? Could their even be one given an infinite context? What else is there to do if consciousness even exists beyond the synapses in the brain other than grow? The details of this exploratory realm or that one are irrelevant considering that such exploratory potentials are as infinite as is the consciousness that can conceive of them.


Does the whole of existence (the totality) "want" all its parts to become consciously aware of it? Is that the raison d'être of being?

Who can say with certainty from this human perspective. Consider however the consistent reports from those humans who have direct experience with non-physical being through NDE or OBE. They report that the fundamental nature of Infinite Being is Love. Unconditional Love. What would such Loving Consciousness want for itself through It's very own expressions? What would it consider in terms of limitations? Would there be any? Could there be designed limitations at certain levels of awareness (ie human) that then fall away at a time that fosters greater expansion?

Lots of good stuff here to ponder and consider.

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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:49 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:I've been pondering lately about something I wonder if you or anyone here as any ideas about (it's relevant to the thread). If pure consciousness is the origin of everything - how can it evolve? How can it make anything new to learn from if it is the origin of every experience? Hasn't it already learned everything that is possible to be learned?

Maybe it's a matter of perspectives. If Source has already thought of all possibilities, maybe it's a matter of ever more unique perspectives of experiencing those possibilities. Expansion comes from expanding perspectives rather than more stuff. Then there is the idea of infinite. Can infinite ever be everything that's possible, or does more just create more possibilities relative to what an expanding now is?

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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby Enlightened2B » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:36 pm

I look at evolution (from my own limited perspective) in the sense that each perspective evolves on its own unique path back to its Source (The origin). It's a vibratory process of expansion and contraction which is fractally evident in every aspect of the physical universe as well. Nothing is ultimately meant to last on a permanent basis. Ultimately, the 'goal' is for all of the manifestations to eventually vibrationally make their way back to their Source in however 'long' that takes. Source might know it all, but experientially exploring it is far different. It's the experience itself of Source through its manifestations where it learns about itself, its own nature of Love, through an environment that seems to contradict its own nature (separation). Seems to make a lot of sense to me and feels right.
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Re: Campfire tales too: What ultimately MATTERS?

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:55 pm

WW: Maybe it's a matter of perspectives. If Source has already thought of all possibilities, maybe it's a matter of ever more unique perspectives of experiencing those possibilities. Expansion comes from expanding perspectives rather that more stuff. Then there is the idea of infinite. Can infinite ever be everything that's possible, or does more just create more possibilities relative to what an expanding now is?

I don't think we're quite on the same page.

I see perspective as the same as stuff. What is perceived is what is as stuff. Perception = Perceived.

Perception can expand perception. Experience can grow experience.

If experience is infinite then potentials are infinite. All occurring Now.

But the Now itself is beyond experience(?). Remaining unaffected by experience (? - key question).

Regardless of the infinite potentials of experience, the Now is the origin of all experience. It already is all experience. So how can it evolve? It already is all things Now, so how can it be any more than the infinite experience that it already is?

That's a spiritual sandwich I can happily munch on for a good long while.
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