What is Space?

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Re: What is Space?

Postby vivianamis » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:12 pm

I agree with dijmart. No mind = no thought = no space.

In the silence of mind there is only pure awareness.
"To know the Truth, you have to be out of your mind"
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Re: What is Space?

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:47 pm

My gripe here is the following:

Pure awareness = awareness alone.

Therefore,

Awareness + any sensation is not pure awareness.

Any sensation obscures pure awareness.

So if you are experiencing no thoughts but are experiencing sight or sound or smell or touch or taste, then you are not experiencing pure awareness.
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Re: What is Space?

Postby dijmart » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:57 pm

Awareness is what allows all perception to appear and disappear, it's the back drop of all that is...realizing this for one's self can be done usually with the experience of no thought or gaps in thought. The bodies senses don't seem, to me, to cause the ignorance that thought does. The forgetting of one's true nature. What's your experience with it zen?
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Re: What is Space?

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:39 pm

To me, bringing our attention into the body or into the gaps between thoughts is a way to strengthen our awareness. Through a practice like this our awareness becomes more refined and able to pereceive subtler realities. Under the right circumstances one may develop an awareness capable of becoming aware of itself - pure awareness. This is considered by many to be the subtlest level of reality. It is far more subtle than the physical senses.

So, what you are describing sounds (from the way i see it) as a calmer state of mind which enables a fuller perception of the physical senses leading to refinement of awareness within the body. Which is great! I'm not trying to say it isn't! But I do personally feel that it is quite different from the direct experience of pure awareness - which I consider to be a good goal to set oneself for their awareness. Apparently it's what we experience when in deep dreamless sleep, though it is too subtle for us to remember it when we return to our physical body - so we believe we lost consciousness, though we didn't really, we just can't remember.

In terms of my personal experience, as i mentioned i often sit for relatively lond periods without experiencing thoughts - instead just experiencing the physical senses and various energetic movements within the body. I also experience states beyond the physical - lucid dreaming and out of body states. If these states the mind is also active to relative degrees. So it seems to me that life is a multi-layered structure of vibrating levels which are occuring WITHIN mind. The space between thoughts is, to me, not evidence of the absence of mind itself, but rather the presence of a mind that is more still than one full of spirling thoughts. To me, it is mind that enables the perception of objects and the experience of duality we are all engaged in. Mind is subtle level if reality that is intimately tied to the physical dimension and the endless dimensions beyond the physical - a kind of parent to these experiences. But it is also a child itself - a child of awareness.

If i were to order life from most dense to least dense it would look something like:

Spiralling thoughts --> physical senses --> extradimensional senses --> pure mind --> pure awareness.

It's a difficult subject for me to address here as I don't want to disrespect anyone's point of view and would certainly encourages others to explore the physical senses withh a calm mind as I myself am doing. However, I also feel quite strongly that there are much deeper levels at play here - pure awareness being one of them. Confusing a relatively dense level for a level of the subtlety of pure awareness doesn't sound like a good idea to me - so i wanted to point out my perspective so people realise they have much further to go on this journey (which I hope will be interpreted as a good thing, as the journey is the point! Not the destination!).

It feels good to speak my mind <3
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Re: What is Space?

Postby dijmart » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:48 am

It seems your way is complicated, I prefer my own path. one where effort and contemplation is needed, until it's not. But, not where I hold what I am at arms length away from me... I don't talk or type as much as I use to, nor do I feel the need to defend a side. we are all on our own journey.
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Re: What is Space?

Postby alex » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:11 am

Space is you. Not separate at all. Your core is space, giving birth to the form of you. That's the experience here anyway.

I get what you are saying EnterZen. To say that awareness is the absence of thought is untrue. Awareness is everything. The thought and the space that holds it. It is just identification with thought that narrows awareness down to a tiny pin point, seemingly losing sight of all else.
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Re: What is Space?

Postby dijmart » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:34 am

alex wrote: To say that awareness is the absence of thought is untrue. Awareness is everything.


I don't think you were clear on what was actually said.

To clarify, I said, "Awareness is what allows all perception to appear and disappear, it's the back drop of all that is...realizing this for one's self can be done usually with the experience of no thought or gaps in thought."

Meaning, awareness IS everything and no-thing. But, to recognize it usually requires a quiet mind.
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Re: What is Space?

Postby alex » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:38 am

Yes quieting the mind could be a way to recognise it more easily, but it is not required. Many paths :)
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Re: What is Space?

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:29 am

dijmart wrote:It seems your way is complicated, I prefer my own path. one where effort and contemplation is needed, until it's not. But, not where I hold what I am at arms length away from me... I don't talk or type as much as I use to, nor do I feel the need to defend a side. we are all on our own journey.


You sound conflicted to me. Your posts are setting off my spiritual-bullsh*t-o-meter.
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Re: What is Space?

Postby dijmart » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:15 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:
dijmart wrote:It seems your way is complicated, I prefer my own path. one where effort and contemplation is needed, until it's not. But, not where I hold what I am at arms length away from me... I don't talk or type as much as I use to, nor do I feel the need to defend a side. we are all on our own journey.


You sound conflicted to me. Your posts are setting off my spiritual-bullsh*t-o-meter.


Oh, ok. Have a nice day zen. Don't know what you consider conflicted, but it doesn't matter, since this is just your opinion.
Last edited by dijmart on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is Space?

Postby dijmart » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:17 pm

alex wrote:Yes quieting the mind could be a way to recognise it more easily, but it is not required. Many paths :)


That's why is used the word usually twice in my post.
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Re: What is Space?

Postby alex » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:53 pm

Yes, I was agreeing with you. All good!
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Re: What is Space?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:54 pm

I really liked the beginning of your OP Mystic ... can I ask ... what made you bring 'God' as a Creator into it? I don't mean to be contrary I'm just trying to figure out where the first part of your thinking has led you to this part.

If we replace 'God' with foo would be it be okay --- if the energy of space and matter is foo and foo creates itself .. why would it need to replicate itself in the form of human kind as some sort of heirarchy - whether foo is dog poo or gold or water or any other combination of elements ... it's still foo creating foo for foo's sake (isn't it?)

Space is awareness. The Mind of God is infinite. Space is infinite...
Foo is awareness foo is infinite.
God is closer to you than you are to yourself
Foo is what you are yourself and what everything is
The Space within every particle of matter in your body is the space of awareness ...of God
Foo is infinite invisible formlessness that combines into form and out again in varying degrees of awareness
God is infinite -- Space is infinite
God is invisible -- Space is invisible
God is formless -- Space is formless
Omnipresent -- Space / foo is everywhere and every-when
Omniscient -- the awareness that is Space/foo, knows all that can be known for all possible manifestations of space, time, and matter
Omnipotent -- Space /foo is invulnerable in all respects...
Our true nature would be formless awareness, vibration, created in the image of our Creator.


I don't get the created in the image of our Creator bit.
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Re: What is Space?

Postby DavidB » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:44 pm

Space.. is the final frontier. :D

Image


Sorry, I'm a Star Trek fan. :)
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: What is Space?

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:16 pm

I wish there were a 'like' button so I could press it in your post David :)

Which series is your favourite? I'm rather partial to Jean Luke Piccard accompanied by the bearded Riker 8) no beard is a deal breaker for me :P
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