Power Of Now > A New Earth

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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby Manyana » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:54 pm

DavidB wrote:Yes indeed, working with the pain body is the most powerful transformer of consciousness. The pain body becomes (ironically) our ally in this process.

I recommend "Living the Liberated Life and Dealing with the Pain Body" if anyone hasn't yet listened to it.



Yes I agree, a very powerful transformer.
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby DavidB » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:27 am

Rob X wrote:David, the source of suffering (in the context of spirituality) is misidentification. It is mistaking our true nature - the creative ground of existence - for this finite, contingent, temporal expression, the body-mind. The great sages throughout history invite us to investigate this. If working on emotional/unconscious aspects of the body-mind's personality is helpful in this investigation then it's no bad thing. I thought that there was a little too much of this type of emphasis in ANE, but that's just me. If it works for you (and I'm sure many others) then that's great.


The miss-identification you refer to is the identification with the pain body, as Tolle describes it. The pain body is the collective emotional manifestation of that miss-identification.

If you think you don't have a pain body, then just wait a little while.
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby dijmart » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:08 am

DavidB wrote:
Rob X wrote:David, the source of suffering (in the context of spirituality) is misidentification. It is mistaking our true nature - the creative ground of existence - for this finite, contingent, temporal expression, the body-mind. The great sages throughout history invite us to investigate this. If working on emotional/unconscious aspects of the body-mind's personality is helpful in this investigation then it's no bad thing. I thought that there was a little too much of this type of emphasis in ANE, but that's just me. If it works for you (and I'm sure many others) then that's great.


The miss-identification you refer to is the identification with the pain body, as Tolle describes it. The pain body is the collective emotional manifestation of that miss-identification.

If you think you don't have a pain body, then just wait a little while.


The pain body energy/emotion that arises can only survive on negative thinking. Otherwise, if faced with presence it dissipates. So, thought is still at the root of mis-identification...in my opinion.
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby DavidB » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:54 am

dijmart wrote:The pain body energy/emotion that arises can only survive on negative thinking. Otherwise, if faced with presence it dissipates. So, thought is still at the root of mis-identification...in my opinion.


Negative thinking can definitely play a role in the identification with an imagined sense of self, however, it is not thinking that creates the pain and suffering, it is the associated negative emotion that creates the pain and suffering. Thinking on it's own is benign, in order for thinking to be destructive, it must be associated with negative emotion. This negative emotion is the pain body.

Fear, worry, stress and anxiety, are all negative emotions. Negative self talk can definitely provoke these negative emotions, but on it's own, negative talk has no power at all. It is this realization that is the foundation for transformation.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby Rob X » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:22 pm

DavidB wrote:
Rob X wrote:David, the source of suffering (in the context of spirituality) is misidentification. It is mistaking our true nature - the creative ground of existence - for this finite, contingent, temporal expression, the body-mind. The great sages throughout history invite us to investigate this. If working on emotional/unconscious aspects of the body-mind's personality is helpful in this investigation then it's no bad thing. I thought that there was a little too much of this type of emphasis in ANE, but that's just me. If it works for you (and I'm sure many others) then that's great.

The miss-identification you refer to is the identification with the pain body, as Tolle describes it. The pain body is the collective emotional manifestation of that miss-identification.

If you think you don't have a pain body, then just wait a little while.


No David, the misidentification that I refer to is the overlooking of our true nature (oneness, source) and the identification as this finite, contingent, temporal expression, the body-mind. Now, if "working with the pain body" as you put it, is helpful in the uncovering of our true nature then that's no bad thing.

And of course, in our everyday affairs, shedding light on the body-mind's unconscious processes which create negativity in our lives can only be a good thing. Exploring emotional and physiological processes that underly behaviour is the essence of psychology.
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby DavidB » Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:02 am

Rob X wrote:Exploring emotional and physiological processes that underly behaviour is the essence of psychology.


Yeah true, I guess it is, but that's not what we are doing.

We are simply being consciously present, being awake enough to notice when the pain body has drawn us back into unconsciousness. We are not exploring emotionality but rather simply waiting quietly in presence, ready to witness old repetitive patters emerge. We don't do anything with them when they emerge, it's enough to simply be conscious of them, watch them. There is no doing in this process, it is a non-doing, non-reactive, non-resistive relationship with reality.

This is why Eckhart talks about the pain body so much, as it is the work (not that it's any work) we do with the pain body that dissolves this finite, contingent, temporal expression, the body-mind, imagined sense of self.

Focus attention on the feeling inside you. Know that it is the pain body. Accept that it is there. Don't think about it - don't let the feeling turn into thinking. Don't judge or analyze. Don't make an identity for yourself out of it. Stay present, and continue to be the observer of what is happening inside you. Become aware not only of the emotional pain but also of "the one who observes," the silent watcher.

This is the power of the Now, the power of your own conscious presence. Then see what happens.-- Tolle
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby Rob X » Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:36 pm

DavidB wrote:This is why Eckhart talks about the pain body so much, as it is the work (not that it's any work) we do with the pain body that dissolves this finite, contingent, temporal expression, the body-mind, imagined sense of self.


The recognition of our true nature is not dependent on the dissolving of the pain body or even being aware of such a concept - the history of spiritual awakenings attests to this. That said, I agree that it may be helpful along the way in some cases.

In as much as the concept aligns with mindfulness it is definitely of some value.
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby DavidB » Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:50 pm

Rob X wrote:The recognition of our true nature is not dependent on the dissolving of the pain body


True, the realization of our true nature is not dependent upon anything at all.

From that place of presence, the imagined sense of self becomes revealed for the illusion that it is, it becomes obvious when it arises, it no longer has an power over us.


Rob X wrote:That said, I agree that it may be helpful along the way in some cases.


I'm curious Rob, what cases are you referring to exactly? When would someone for example, become aware of their true nature and also not then also be aware of the imagined sense of self? What did they awaken from if not the illusion of identity?
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby Rob X » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:42 pm

DavidB wrote:
Rob X wrote:That said, I agree that it may be helpful along the way in some cases.


I'm curious Rob, what cases are you referring to exactly? When would someone for example, become aware of their true nature and also not then also be aware of the imagined sense of self? What did they awaken from if not the illusion of identity?


Hmmm… curious indeed. I've no idea how you came to that David.

I'm agreeing with you that it's possible that shedding some light on our unconscious processes (pain body) may be helpful along the way.

Here's my thoughts on becoming aware of our true nature from… yesterday. ;)

Rob X wrote:No David, the misidentification that I refer to is the overlooking of our true nature (oneness, source) and the identification as this finite, contingent, temporal expression, the body-mind. Now, if "working with the pain body" as you put it, is helpful in the uncovering of our true nature then that's no bad thing.


Rob X wrote:David, the source of suffering (in the context of spirituality) is misidentification. It is mistaking our true nature - the creative ground of existence - for this finite, contingent, temporal expression, the body-mind. The great sages throughout history invite us to investigate this.
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby DavidB » Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:07 am

Rob X wrote:Hmmm… curious indeed. I've no idea how you came to that David.


Yes, that's why I asked that specific question Rob.

I didn't come to that idea Rob, it isn't an idea, it is what is experienced when one realizes that there is no self. You can of course be born into the world without developing an ego identity, but that would be really quite rare, I don't remember ever meeting anyone of that nature. I have a hunch that you are probably not one of those Rob, so I must assume that you have, or have had, an ego identity. This would mean that if you realized your true self (which is no self) then you would have also realized that there was an imagined sense of self, an ego identity, an illusion. If you realized that then you would also know, that from time to time, the ego arises and looks for some negative energy to feed on. Eckhart calls this energy form "the pain body".

So I wonder Rob, coming from the illusion of an imagined sense of self, and realizing the true self (no self), how is it that you perceive shedding some light on our unconscious processes (pain body) may be helpful along the way, when the realization of 'no self' and the realization of 'imagined self' occur simultaneously?
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby dijmart » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:08 am

David,

It seems you may have forgotten that it was you that said-

This is why Eckhart talks about the pain body so much, as it is the work (not that it's any work) we do with the pain body that dissolves this finite, contingent, temporal expression, the body-mind, imagined sense of self.


I think rob was simply agreeing with you that what you said...may...help in some cases to dissolve the little "me".

However, it also seems that you are trying to turn this around to be something he brought up, but it was not.
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby Rob X » Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:45 am

David, when I say "I've no idea how you came to that", I'm mystified as to how you came to the conclusions that you did regarding what I had said. Dijmart's assessment of what's going on here seems to be on the mark. You do seem to be trying to turn this around.

So let's have a recap to clear up any confusion.

A couple of days ago you asserted that

DavidB wrote:This is why Eckhart talks about the pain body so much, as it is the work (not that it's any work) we do with the pain body that dissolves this finite, contingent, temporal expression, the body-mind, imagined sense of self.


I pointed out that

Rob X wrote:The recognition of our true nature is not dependent on the dissolving of the pain body or even being aware of such a concept - the history of spiritual awakenings attests to this. That said, I agree that it may be helpful along the way in some cases.


So in that last sentence I'm agreeing (with you) that it's possible that shedding some light on our unconscious processes (pain body) may be helpful along the way for some. Now we can't say for sure that it is helpful but many feel that it is including ET.

David if you are still in any doubt about who is saying what, can I suggest that you carefully go back over our exchange of the last few days.
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby DavidB » Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:26 pm

dijmart wrote:It seems you may have forgotten that it was you that said-


No, didn't forget, but thanks for reminding me.

dijmart wrote:I think rob was simply agreeing with you that what you said...may...help in some cases to dissolve the little "me".


Yes, I understand that Rob agreed, and that's fine, no problem there. But you see, the thing that has continued my further interest in this discussion with Rob, is the continued qualifier, that is it ...may... help, in ...some... cases.

I'm honestly attempting to understand, how Rob can come to this conclusion, and haven't yet received an answer. If that's "turning things around" (not really sure what that means) in your appraisal of the discussion, then ok.

Need I remind you at this stage, that this is an Eckhart Tolle discussion forum, and discussing the teachings of Eckhart Tolle is the reason we are here, but not the only reason. So discussing the pain body with Rob, ought not be perceived as a problem, I'm simply attempting to understand his reasoning in regard to that aspect of Eckhart's teaching.

Rob X wrote:So in that last sentence I'm agreeing (with you) that it's possible that shedding some light on our unconscious processes (pain body) may be helpful along the way for some. Now we can't say for sure that it is helpful but many feel that it is including ET.


Sorry rob, it doesn't clear it up, because you may be misunderstanding my inquiry. As I said above, the ..may be .. helpful and a the ..for some..? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Which is why I asked you this...

DavidB wrote:So I wonder Rob, coming from the illusion of an imagined sense of self, and realizing the true self (no self), how is it that you perceive shedding some light on our unconscious processes (pain body) may be helpful along the way, when the realization of 'no self' and the realization of 'imagined self' occur simultaneously?


Thanks for all of your input so far, I do appreciate your efforts and looking forward to your replies.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:17 pm

DavidB wrote:...the realization of 'no self' and the realization of 'imagined self' occur simultaneously?

I would suggest that the conclusion of 'no self' is just another imagining on the way to a clearer perception of true self, or one's true nature. To say there is no self simply because one recognizes the human identification as a thought construct is to throw the baby out with the bath water. Self and being is eternal. Evolution of consciousness and being is what's happening as the flow of life.

Of course on the upward path on the fundamental, essential, scale of being there is likely ever greater clarity as Oneness, to what grandness one can only imagine from our current state. My sense is that within that oneness however, there are infinite perspectives of Self of which we each derive our unique sense of being. That is a far cry from 'no self'.

The human identification may well be abandoned upon our transition out of these bodies and our return to the conscious expanse of our true nature. So in that perspective, this particular sense of human-self identity could, in a sense, be characterized as 'no self'; but that does not mean this imagined self is without value. Even an imagined sense of self is an experience of self. All experience is real, even in an imagined identity. It is no accident of being that we are here.

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Re: Power Of Now > A New Earth

Postby DavidB » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:44 pm

Yes, of course you are correct WW, no argument from me.

I am still, none the less, waiting for a reply from Rob.

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