Reincarnation until get all possible human experiences?

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Reincarnation until get all possible human experiences?

Postby Testigo » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:46 am

Some days ago I happened to find the interesting videos of Christine Breese, a beautiful lady that talks with charm and crystal clarity about the Now, eternity, and many other trascendental items. I really didn't find anything new in her messages, except for what she says about our presence here througouth millions of incarnations until get all possible human experiences before leaving behind the human stage to access deeper and deeper immersion into Being.
But... according to Tolle and others, if we as persons, individuals, are not other thing but mere illusion, thoughts that feed our ego, thoughts, that dissolve and dessapear the moment we die to merge our Essence into the eternal Now as Being, then, what or who reincarnates?
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Re: Reincarnation until get all possible human experiences?

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:24 pm

Eckhart's teachings intentionally do not delve into anything further than dealing with presence and the Now. There's a very valid reason for that and one that I highly admire.

If this notion of re-incarnation causes fear in you, then discard for it now.

On the other hand, consider Tolle's teachings as a stepping stone, a sort of crucial 'pointer' to get us away from the thinking mind into a greater space of Being. The greater complexity of reality is not something taught by Tolle or something the he even sniffs at, because it's not necessary to get his incredibly effective pointer across.

If you ARE interested in learning about re-incarnation. Start with Michael Newton's book-Journey of the Souls or better yet.....read Nanci Danison's book "Backwards, Returning to Source".

You won't see much talk in this community about re-incarnation and understandably so, as most folks like to keep it simple and stick to the basic bullets of Tolle's teachings.

But, this is an open forum and I've researched plenty about re-incarnation, so please feel free to ask away and I'd be glad to provide whatever insight I can from what I've learned about it.
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Re: Reincarnation until get all possible human experiences?

Postby Testigo » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:30 am

Enlightened2B wrote: "Eckhart's teachings intentionally do not delve into anything further than dealing with presence and the Now...

If this notion of re-incarnation causes fear in you, then discard for it now."


Yes. The more I get deeper into presence and the Now, the more I find "dissonant" that notion. I just wanted to inform of the existence of that lady that has published several interesting videos that contain almost all the teachings of Eckhart, except that she says that the immersion into Being and presence is gradual, and if I didn't get her wrong, it will take all possible human experiences before achieving the goal.
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Re: Reincarnation until get all possible human experiences?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:24 pm

I'm in two minds ... :lol: both of them open.

On the one hand I want to share of two books one for sceptics like me (open minded curious types) - called Old Souls by Tom Schroder, a respected journalist curious about stories of children who remembered elements from a past life and could identify parts and people in it in this life. He went with 40 year veteran researcher Dr Ian Stevenson (who collated more than 2000 cases of children who claimed previous life memories) to interview some of these people, their now and prior families. Some of the stories are indeed compelling, especially the young girl frantic to find her daughter and beloved husband.... as a toddler in this life and it continued into her adult years. Her (now) parents recall that from the time she could utter her first words she would pick up the phone and repeat urgently into the phone the name Leila - Leila was the name of the dead woman's daughter... her (then) family members say that the woman had tried and failed to reach Leila by phone shortly before she died.

She found and reconnected with her 'then' family. Ruses to trick her all failed, and indeed she was only reunited with her family after identifying each of them in a crowd, even when others were being passed off as her husband, she pushed passed the fake one and went straight to her husband hidden in the crowd. It goes without saying it caused quite some consternation as her 'husband' was far far older than her (now), and had taken a new wife - what to do with this child, younger than her daughter who remembered and still felt a part of her old life. Her photos in both lives show striking resemblance and she never 'remarried' always maintaining her love for her (then) husband.

Others rightly identified the scenes of their death, and others involved in it, or had an undeniable memory of another life - one of the photos in the book is of a little girl called Preeti who continually told her siblings "This is your house, not my house. These are your parents, not mine." When punished by her parents for making such statements she begged a neighbour to take her 'home', naming parents in a village miles distant. She said she was a girl named Sheila who had been hit by a car and killed shortly before her (Preeti's) birth. There's a photo of Sheila in the book too. When Sheila's father came to check out Preeti's story he says Sheila recognized him and she clung to him until he agreed to take her home with him.

Another interesting aspect is mention of the 'dead' ones remembering seeing what happened to their bodies, who came to their funerals, whether the facts were recorded properly or not, and from my own nde and clair experiences I 'get' that bit.

I became interested in it and found the book only because my own daughter as a toddler would 'recall' elements of two lives that were not this one, only when the elements were relevant to something now, and many of the questions that she had as a toddler were comparing then, and now culturally, checking if what 'was appropriate' was appropriate here and now. She was born 12 weeks premature and had a gifted IQ (known simply by testing 'acquired knowledge' in conversation with adults) and she had the vocabulary of an adult by age two. It was just 'normal', as things occurred to her she would use references from 'when I was here before, not this time Mum... when I had the other Mum who died...' and it was so ... I want to say so normal and reasonable. She was, as we all do, referencing prior knowledge when discussing a thing - that the knowledge was from 'before' was just as naturally cited as 'when I was at Granny's' or 'when I was at the beach the other day... ' ... just 'is'. So I came across that book on recommendation from a friend who worked in child psychology when I raised it one day, I wasn't so much concerned - her factual nature around it and with it wasn't really concerning, I was more curious because I had to shift my perspective.

In a way it very much helped me to see the child as a person, a whole person, not just 'my daughter', but a worldly wise soul if that makes sense.

The same sort of stuff occurs to me with clair stuff - it just is.

She had particular concerns about being a girl - and things that may have been forbidden in the 'not now' life. Whenever she spoke of such things her voice would go quieter and she had a habit of touching her finger to the centre of her forehead and holding her posture differently --- reminding me so much of a skinny little hindu girl. That was the most recent by her recounting and elements of it does seem to hold an uncanny ... hangover effect for much that she is experiencing in this life. The threads are almost tangible. in her early thinking and desires to 'save the world' from a very young age, and feed the hungry and free the enslaved and fight for equality, and immerse herself in cultures different to her own, and challenge injustices, an even in her illnesses - her previous characterisation died of malnutrition - quite simply & factually for her recounted that they didn't have enough food to eat, and so they died.

As a baby she had a fascinating ritual with her food that would make it seem to last twice as long. It was fascinating to watch - she would take food in one hand, pass it into the other before putting it in her mouth only when she had more in the first hand, like a chain of food each piece precious. We never had to tell her to finish what was on her plate.

Almost as soon as she could talk she recalled (again just factually) the games they would play in the dirt, the sadness when her mother died from the starvation as she gave her food to the children, and how almost in surprise that her younger brother died before her even though she had given him most of her food because he was a boy, and she was just a girl, and the order in which various family members died, all of starvation.

And then early in this life she developed type one diabetes, her body unable to process complex carbohydrates... before it was diagnosed we didn't even know her body was eating itself (again?).

Some of the kids in the book have an unexplained (in this life) scar in the places they were injured in the previous life.

The other book is a fiction trilogy that I think anyone with these questions would find fascinating, The Ancient Future Trilogy by Traci Harding. A group of people reincarnating across eons and dimensions and indeed learning all there is to learn in life experience and in all manner of cross relationship. It's challenging, even as a reader to have the heroes be the villains and the villains be the heroes etc


But... according to Tolle and others, if we as persons, individuals, are not other thing but mere illusion, thoughts that feed our ego, thoughts, that dissolve and dessapear the moment we die to merge our Essence into the eternal Now as Being, then, what or who reincarnates?


What indeed?

I haven't interpreted Tolle's messages like that, I understand that our thoughts are not necessarily what we think they are, and fear and ego distort our thoughts, but we are the vehicles for experience that our minds like to try to figure out.

Whether our minds are figuring it out accurately or not still leaves the vehicle - and the essence of who we are that powers that vehicle.

Then the 'what' would be that essence.

Testigo, if you knew that --- that you are here to experience - would it free you from fear of experience? Would it free you from judging the paths of others whose experiences you do not know?

If... then what does that mean for you?

To understand that I'd thoroughly recommend The Ancient Future trilogy.
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Re: Reincarnation until get all possible human experiences?

Postby Testigo » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:07 pm

Impresive documentation, Smiileyjen 101. I have read about many prooves of reincarnation and of course, it would be foolish to just simply disregard them. In your case, even more with what you have seen and analysed in your own daughter.

"...And then early in this life she developed type one diabetes, her body unable to process complex carbohydrates... before it was diagnosed we didn't even know her body was eating itself (again?)."

So many ideas come to me right now and it is very difficult to put an order in their priorities.
Lets start with this one:
Have the atoms of our physical bodies some kind of continuity after their dissolution as a manifested form?

"Others rightly identified the scenes of their death, and others involved in it, or had an undeniable memory of another life...
Some of the kids in the book have an unexplained (in this life) scar in the places they were injured in the previous life." 

And now another one:
Are there some contents of the mind that survive the dissolution of the body?

"I understand that our thoughts are not necessarily what we think they are, and fear and ego distort our thoughts, but we are the vehicles for experience that our minds like to try to figure out. 
Whether our minds are figuring it out accurately or not still leaves the vehicle - and the essence of who we are that powers that vehicle."

I see your point, and I see the documentation to prove it. But somehow I see this as contrary to the oneness of the universe. I mean... I would not like to leave this life as Testigo, looking back with fear, remorse, clinging, memories, at what has happened in “my life”. I expect (and hope) that I will be able to go ahead without looking back and merge with the totality of the cosmos, not with the conscience of a drop of water but with that of the whole ocean. In that sense, achieving that goal, there would not be an identity related in any way with the former Testigo that could be forced to come back to a new life with some of the old characteristics defects, qualities or tendencies, because that drop of water would be completely merged into the Totality.
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Re: Reincarnation until get all possible human experiences?

Postby randomguy » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:55 pm

That's fascinating, Smiley Jen. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Reincarnation until get all possible human experiences?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:55 am

:D Open hearts and minds - yum. The second mind that didn't get a voice in my sharing above is that the past and the future take us away from being in equilibrium with and as now.

Preeti above, so attached to her past family that she denied herself the full experiences with her new family. The wife and mother who brought those attachments and view of herself into this life and denied herself the experiences that embracing her new life would have offered had she not known, remembered and clung to, her perception of herself as someone other than who she was now. Her jealousy for the position of the 'new wife' as an example, denying herself relationships such as lover, wife, mother in this life based on attachment to those relationships in the past life (if that's what it is :wink: )

We do that even within the one life - identify with one set of perspectives, roles, relationships, unwilling to accept change or difference from that perspective. Therein is the creation of suffering - resistance to what is - in ET speak making an enemy, obstacle or means to an end of a person, thing or situation.

I neither encouraged or condemned my daughter for sharing her awareness and knowledge, (although it would put us in some pretty funny situations with those less open minded and I'd have to run to catch up with her thinking at times). By age four she had enough 'this life' experiences to draw from and use as references and she completely forgot - let go - of the other two she used to - by necessity really - draw from to explain her thoughts and feelings. She now has no recollection of even having the recollections - which is kind of sad, and kind of wonderful given that it means she has successfully 'fully integrated' into this life.

We are imbalanced when out of kilter with what is our relative reality - balance - equilibrium (the unrestricted merging of all elements of a thing or situation) is found when we completely merge with it. And I'm talking in the physical arena here, when we accept we stop causing resistance and suffering for ourselves and others - agreed there's a difference in intensity between curiosity and musing and wistful thoughts and feelings, than there is with attachment and 'defending' something that is not (now) our (relative) experience.

The 'expectation to reality' distance unresolved, still madly clinging to the expectation that is not real can occur from all of consciousness even when we aren't 'consciously - in form-mind' aware of it. Intuition is the guidance of eternal consciousness that knows no boundaries in time and space to intuit is to know instinctively.

Testigo said: So many ideas come to me right now and it is very difficult to put an order in their priorities.
Lets start with this one:
Have the atoms of our physical bodies some kind of continuity after their dissolution as a manifested form?


95% of even atoms (all atoms regardless of what they make up) are not categorised - as in they are not on the elemental table of combinations of elements that make up every thing in form. The 5% that is 'knowable' able to be labelled are by degrees seen as the building blocks of the physical - in form and energy = creation. So we think we know all about form and energy based on 5%.... we even only know 5% of the characteristics of an atom - so we're pretty funny making all the assumptions that we do about creation based on having 5% knowledge in totality and ignoring the 95% even when we know we are doing that.

Any assumption that does not keep this uppermost in laying out the 'facts' and 'conclusions' is flawed either in ignorance or arrogance.

The essence of consciousness and creation is (for me) not to be found in the 5% which is known & knowable as form as individuations - it's in the 95% that is unknowable while in form - the limitations of form allow us to see and know form - knowing the formless (for me) comes from taking focus away from form and being (at) one with the formless. It's that feels like home state when we let go and also blend into equilibrium without resistance - in the sigh, or the breathing out, in the movement into acceptance, enjoyment, enthusiasm awarely with what is.

Balancing that can be a tricky exercise in form with limitations placed upon it.

I think I was empathetic and accepting of my daughter's 'knowing' a) because she was a tiny toddler, innocent and without guile - she was just telling 'her' truth; b) because it was not the main focus of her thinking - she was merely using it as a reference tool, not as a resistance to ...; and c) because of a 'blimp' in my own consciousness that I experienced as a young child and had pushed it away in order to not upset things, go against accepted cultural norms that such things were not 'real' or could not be 'true', and yet in my heart I knew it to be true, even if not in 'this life'.

A few years after we'd emigrated to Australia I was at a friend's house and a show about a little village in Scotland came on the TV and I got soooooooooooooooo excited to see it, I was beyond happy excited. Yes I was in this life homesick, yes in this life I'd been in and known many such villages, but this was 'different' - this was intimately known - I started telling my Australian friend who lived where and what such and such a shop smelled like, and if the camera went around the corner how they'd find Mr whoever's butcher shop and the meats he'd hang in there and the wonderful herbed sausages he made and his laugh and his belly bouncing and and and and and...

I was so excited I ran home to tell my parents to turn the television on so they too could see it and be so excited to see it once more.
When I told them they looked at me with real consternation while I was happily blethering about all the characters and places and streets and homes and and and and and... they turned on the tv and ooh look there's Mr whoever's butcher shop!!! What glee!!!! 'Don't you remember his sausages and his belly bouncing?????'

To which my parents informed me that yes it was nice to see such a lovely village, but I had never been there in my life, they had never been there in my life and no one else had ever taken me there - it must (just) be my imagination. As the facts of the matter penetrated I could accept their 'facts'. It was in the south west of Scotland, and we, as a family, had never been there.

And yet.... and yet... my heart, my heart..... the facts of my knowing were also accurate - proven by the cameras going around the corner...

The 'shift in my own perspective' that I had to accommodate with my daughter is that ... I know 'I' had been there, I know I knew it as my home, I know I had tasted those sausages and laughed with Mr whoever and walked those streets intimately knowing the people in those houses. But the looks on my parents' faces and the stance of their bodies were defensive with all alarm bells ringing.. to disagree with them would have been to 'shift' their perspectives more than they were willing to allow.

In terms of awareness, capacity & willingness - we tell ourselves our lives and the world is this finite thing of the 5% ... confined by time and space and individuation --- the 95% knows otherwise. For the most part in most of our cultures now we stay within the lines and excuse things, call it imagination or error. But the heart knows, the heart knows the difference between situational 'truth' and the real truth.

In my daughter's innocence she was able to seamlessly bring all of her knowledge forward, in my acceptance she was able to use it until such time as she had fully integrated.

Many times she made me think of that village incident and how easily I fell back into the confines of the 5% rather than be at odds with it.

One really, really funny incident involved her 'other - other time' (as in the little starving girl was referred to as the 'other time when I had the other Mum that died, not you Mum', the other time', or similar if she was referencing other family members of that 'other time I was here', and this one was the 'other - other time' - when I was a man, not when I had the Mum that died, but before that, when I was a man ... just setting the 'facts' straight before telling her stories.

An adult male friend of ours was staying at our home and was preparing to run a marathon. The instantaneous response from this tiny toddler was (for me - not so much for him) hilarious. She came in as he was tying his running shoes up and she full on engaged him about his running, so reminded of how it felt and how she had done it 'the other other time... when she was a man', turning to me to do the 'not the other time when my Mum died, Mum, but the one before that when I was a man....' before launching into telling our friend how her shoes didn't tie up like that but the laces went all the way up her legs - bending over to show him how she would wind her laces up her calf and tie it ---- she looked so pleased being able to show him, while she was prattling on asking him did he run on the road or through the trees.. him (by now a bit perturbed by this toddler's enthusiasm and trying to keep up with her thoughts): on the road, her saying she liked running through the woods, it was softer on your feet ---because she'd have to run and run and run all day taking a thing (she indicated something long in her hand) before giving it to the next runner before she could rest... then her face lit up and she asked him if he had a beer after he'd been running... she did it when she was a man, and it felt so good to have a beer when you'd been running all day ...

It was so authentic, so genuine, so ... so like my own delight at seeing the village, when he asked me what the hell she was talking about & she answered... when I was here before Rick, when I was a man, not this time, or the other time, but when I was a man, I had to run and run and run all day and... a beer is really good when you're a man.... you should try it after your run ... :shock: :? :(why could he not just accept that? She was just giving him her 'sound' advice from her own experience, about the merits of having a beer!! :lol: )

She thought he was 'at odds' with her because he was a health freak :lol:

You know, it's all just good fun if you don't get your knickers in a knot about it.

Figure out, is it 'imagination' or 'intuition'?

And, notice the energetic/resonant differences in awareness, capacity and willingness in the three 'characters' in the little tale above, one in enthusiasm, one in resistance and one in acceptance of both of their states being understandable under their individual experiences/circumstances.
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Re: Reincarnation until get all possible human experiences?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:14 am

That's fascinating, Smiley Jen. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for expressing the gratitude & generosity Randomguy.. fuel for the heart :D

Testigo I've separated out the next two questions because they have (for me) a different point of reference for sharing my perspectives, that of my nde and life review - the knowledge gained from those events of my experience, as innocently and authentically as my daughter's knowledge of running as a man, it's not about that per se it's just what is now in my awareness :wink:

Testigo said And now another one:
Are there some contents of the mind that survive the dissolution of the body?


I truly believe the body is merely the vehicle, not the power that fuels it.

I get a little confused as to what people are referring to with 'the mind' - if you mean brain, then no when the brain is dead the brain is dead, the energy that once powered it to process 'data', to separate it and filter it in isolation is gone. For me, it's a wonderful tool, but it is not the power.

If you mean awareness yes, awareness is eternal and has 'memory' - but it's memory at a different frequency it's in the absolute frequency of acceptance, of equilibrium.

Awareness, capacity and willingness are grown in physical experience - for me the (wonderful even if gory/glory) limitations of physical experience bring into 'matter' the individual elements of a thing, person or situation so that the elements are known intimately by their individuation --- like tasting individual ingredients of a cake - as different to tasting the blended / combined cake made from those ingredients.

Try it - bake a cake - be totally aware of the experiences and thoughts and feelings of each ingredient and action from nothing to here, including yourself - it's a bit difficult for our brain to process all of that data - but all of that data is still 'there'.

Alter the combination or intensities or experiences of each ingredient (or indeed in biology add or take away a molecule or genetic indicator from dna, or in an experience differ just one factor) and you have a whole other 'thing'/experience/understanding.

For me outside of individuated form there is only eternal unlimited awareness of equilibrium + of the individual elements that are part of the moving, eternal creation in equilibrium - which is merely the blending of all elements of it.

It would be a bit like effortlessly being aware of each grain of sugar or salt and the individual molecules of every ingredient + the intensity and time of heat & energy that went into every step of preparing and creating a cake (the beating, blending, baking, even the energy flow in the thoughts and feelings that accompanied the actions + the eternal 'experiences' of each ingredient that brought it to right here/now to be so combined) - with each and every bite of the cake.

The other thing is that this awareness is all 'gratitude & generosity'. Where resistance /separation occurs it is accommodated until such time as it breaks down again.
'Presence', 'awareness' is this state.

Memories / perspectives are held 'separate' until they merge again into equilibrium in gratitude & generosity - love energy/vibration.

For this, think of something that once held great angst for you and was held apart as if solid, and now it has with growth in awareness, capacity & willingness been 'absorbed' wherein you are now at peace / equilibrium with it.
The nature or circumstance of 'it' hasn't changed - you've just grown to accommodate and absorb it.

It's just that - to infinity, excluding no thing.
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Re: Reincarnation until get all possible human experiences?

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:52 am

Forgive me my enthusiasm :D

Testigo said:
I see your point, and I see the documentation to prove it. But somehow I see this as contrary to the oneness of the universe. I mean... I would not like to leave this life as Testigo, looking back with fear, remorse, clinging, memories, at what has happened in “my life”. I expect (and hope) that I will be able to go ahead without looking back and merge with the totality of the cosmos, not with the conscience of a drop of water but with that of the whole ocean. In that sense, achieving that goal, there would not be an identity related in any way with the former Testigo that could be forced to come back to a new life with some of the old characteristics defects, qualities or tendencies, because that drop of water would be completely merged into the Totality.


I just want to hug you for the expression of the 'totality' right here in this paragraph.

I see your point, and I see the documentation to prove it. But somehow I see this as contrary to the oneness of the universe.

Yep, we see/know that the facts say one thing, and our fear that it means that we are either 'less than' or called upon to be 'more than' we think we are....
puts us in a position of thinking that we have to choose one or the other, when both are simultaneously true, both the eternal equilibrium and the individuated elements of it. Our brains want certainty and find the vast nature of equilibrium difficult to deal with, so we fall back to the 5% and try to ignore the 95%

(eg we know that the answer to all 'problems' on earth is 'with love and compassion' - in awareness, capacity & willingness - but we ignore it / reject it, in favour of individuated experiences wherein one's choices affect another's.)

It just is.

I would not like to leave this life as Testigo, looking back with fear, remorse, clinging, memories, at what has happened in “my life”.

Again the limitations of the brain are playing tricks on you. Outside of form awareness has no thing but awareness of both the equilibrium & accommodation of all of the elements of it.

This was the greatest of learning in my nde/life review ---- I had that oh so wrong (also understandable given cultural norms and the acceptance of the 5%)!! Not only were all of the elements of my own experiences 'okay' & totally understandable with awareness of (levels and expressions and experiences of) awareness, capacity & willingness and the limitations of them in the 'vehicle' but so was everyone / thing else also okay. Again go back to a situation that was once thought to be other than 'perfect' and the difference once it's absorbed / integrated.

It wasn't the fear and quivering that religions bring to mind when we see the totality of our experiences, it was truly more just like an instant 'aha' moment unveiling of total awareness of elements feeding in and out of it. Truly, truly blameless so no remorse, no fear, no 'attachment' in a resistance sense, but awareness and acceptance in a recognition sense. Crack an egg, whisk it and try to see where the white and yolk began and ended... you know they're there, you know they have individual properties that once kept them separate...

Yup we get cracked and blended :wink:

I expect (and hope) that I will be able to go ahead without looking back and merge with the totality of the cosmos, not with the conscience of a drop of water but with that of the whole ocean.

I like the simultaneous expression of the two parts of this -
a) expectation is a pseudo conclusion based not on the actual 'data' of a thing, and not in the moment or circumstance of actuality.
b) you already (and always) are 'merged' with the totality of the cosmos --- 95% of you is simultaneously aware of this while the 5% is just inflating its importance, separating itself out & ignoring the rest.

In that sense, achieving that goal, there would not be an identity related in any way with the former Testigo that could be forced to come back to a new life with some of the old characteristics defects, qualities or tendencies, because that drop of water would be completely merged into the Totality.

There is no part of 'Testigo' that is not a part of the Totality, defects, qualities and tendencies included, and no part of the Totality that is not in some way expressed or experienced by 'Testigo' in all its gory glory- whether 'Testigo' is aware of that in each moment, or not.

Creation also does not 'force' anything, it allows - it allows energy to flow in continuous equilibrium, and be experienced by the parts of that - and if you don't think you're a part of it and all of you is a part of it, check it out next time you 'volunteer' for something in experience in response to what is.

Testigo... you and your life is actually perfect, just as it is, however it is experienced, imperfections included.

(read The Ancient Future Trilogy!!!)
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