Narcissism

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Narcissism

Postby alex » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:59 pm

Sometimes I wonder if I'm really deluded. What if I'm actually completely narcissistic. Does anyone else ever feel they are fucked up on some fundamental level?
It can be a slippery slope, having spiritual experiences. I think people can build a pretty elaborate false self out of them.
I don't really know what I'm getting at - I just had a pretty unpleasant encounter with an individual that sent me spinning into pain and questioning myself.
If that happens so easily then how far have I come really?
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Re: Narcissism

Postby rachMiel » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:31 pm

These are imo good contemplations ... they keep you honest.

One way of getting a feeling for how far you've come is to see how resilient you are. Do you catch on to your mind games quicker than you did before? Do you see the bigger picture more easily? Do you get sane and recover from them sooner?

Deeply rooted emotional triggers are like physical reflexes ... they fire no matter how smart you've gotten about yourself. So the question becomes: When a trigger fires, how do you handle the "aftermath?"

(Liked your poem btw. :-) )
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Re: Narcissism

Postby DavidB » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:55 pm

I question my sanity sometimes, especially those times when I feel I have reverted back to old self destructive behaviors and thought patterns. They seem to creep up on me mostly but they can also be sudden, such as during a very stressful situation or a sudden confrontation.

There are many traps and back doors where delusion can slip back in unnoticed. But the realization that one has again become deluded, is the arising of awareness.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Narcissism

Postby alex » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:09 pm

Thank you muchly for your responses. They bring comfort.
Do you catch on to your mind games quicker than you did before? Do you see the bigger picture more easily? Do you get sane and recover from them sooner?

I like this point. We are where we are and it's about the journey and this moment right now isn't it? Where are we now? Are we responding in a more evolved way now? There is no end point, no way that it is supposed to look. Thank you for reminding me.

I question my sanity sometimes

I would if I were you too.. :p
No, really, it's great to know I'm not the only one!
There are many traps and back doors where delusion can slip back in unnoticed. But the realization that one has again become deluded, is the arising of awareness.
Sounds true to me!

Ps - thanks for the comment about my poem rach, it's hard to put into words what one wants to say sometimes, but it's beautiful trying. I was having a bit of love fest at my kitchen table late last night (on my own).

Thank you again.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby Onceler » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:01 pm

alex wrote:Sometimes I wonder if I'm really deluded. What if I'm actually completely narcissistic. Does anyone else ever feel they are fucked up on some fundamental level?
It can be a slippery slope, having spiritual experiences. I think people can build a pretty elaborate false self out of them.
I don't really know what I'm getting at - I just had a pretty unpleasant encounter with an individual that sent me spinning into pain and questioning myself.
If that happens so easily then how far have I come really?


Yes! It's called, 'being human', I believe.....actually I find honest posts like this more helpful, or as helpful as the soaring spiritual rhetoric of realization. This is realization as well, the wave action of growth, the shadow side of expansion.

I have had, and still have, all these thoughts and more. I find that with each insight, clarity, reduction of fear, a layer is peeled back. In this raw vulnerable space another aspect of ourselves is laid bare. It feels like regression, but we're digging deeper and exposing layers that were covered up by avoidance, negative emotions, and, yes, joy/bliss. We see our narcissism, our weaknesses freshly. I have narcissistic tendencies, no question, but perhaps less so than before. Narcissists don't have self-awareness. Narcissism, strictly speaking, is an elaborate defense mechanism used to avoid weakness or emotional vulnerabilities. Awareness promotes change and is the antidote to narcissism. As we peel back the bandages and remove the scar tissue on a fresh wound we become more supple in our awareness and spirit.

Thanks for your post, Alex.
Last edited by Onceler on Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby rachMiel » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:56 pm

Onceler wrote:... the soaring spiritual rhetoric of realization.

Nice ... ! ;-)
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Re: Narcissism

Postby oak tree » Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:04 pm

Yes I do wonder sometimes if I'm deluded and maybe I just use spirituality as an excuse not to face up to my issues. Especially when I have unpleasant encounters with people.
When I look at my life situation it often looks like I'm regressing instead of moving forwards.

Possibly I read too many new age books and had the expectations that spirituality would make life easier, better relationships, a happier life etc
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Re: Narcissism

Postby Onceler » Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:28 pm

In my experience, oaktree, spiritually is brutal, sharp as a knife and unsparing. It's the cutting away to simplicity, the reduction not the addition that is essential. I think it's a good sign when we are vulnerable, naked and uncomfortable. Not to say there are no good times in there, transcendence and joy. These things come and go and bliss is a respite and preparation for the next rounded of paring away.

Maybe, this is just my experience. Performance and mileage may vary.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby beginnersmind » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:11 pm

Onceler wrote:In my experience, oaktree, spiritually is brutal, sharp as a knife and unsparing. It's the cutting away to simplicity, the reduction not the addition that is essential. I think it's a good sign when we are vulnerable, naked and uncomfortable. Not to say there are no good times in there, transcendence and joy. These things come and go and bliss is a respite and preparation for the next rounded of paring away.

Maybe, this is just my experience. Performance and mileage may vary.


I absolutely agree. I have a friend that always speaks of the quote, "Truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."

I'll say from my experience and some of the "spiritual acting" I've seen from some people, that at first spirituality seems all sunshine and balloons. We read some new ideas, thinking that we "get it" and all that. But once we start doing the work and looking at the dark corners of the mind or shadows as it is sometimes called that we have repressed in some form or another, spirituality can be brutal. It can even cause a kind of "dark night of the soul" phenomena. But as we continue on the journey and releasing/forgiving the repressed parts of our mind that we tried to hide and hide from, we begin to find a deeper peace with what is. This doesn't mean that the human condition just stops and everything is peaches and cream, but that we are more centered and are able to see things more for what they actually are, rather than simply superimposing our egoic narrative onto the situation and calling it a fact.

We're all human and humans have a knack for being able to take things and use them as a defense mechanism and/or an escape and I don't think spirituality is any different. We may have seen (or still see it) in ourselves and/or observed it in others that when first practicing spirituality or more like reading about all these new metaphysical concepts, that we can become even more self centered and self absorbed. We can become even more narcissistic. This is a phase that I think everyone has experienced to some degree at one point or another. Unfortunately, some people get stuck in this phase for a very very long time, or due to neo advaita approaches which causes spiritual immature minds to delude themselves to confuse "cognitive enlightenment" (which is essentially having a concept of metaphysical ideas cause the person read it in a book or was told by some "spiritual authority") with actual awakening to think this narcissistic attitude is what spirituality actually is. I've seen people be very cruel to other people because "it is all an illusion" or there is no "good or bad" at the Absolute metaphysical level.

This is the spirituality trap and is a result of the phenomena known as spiritual bypassing and unfortunately, it is a very common phenomena. This is where we need to honestly look at ourselves and our so called progress on our path. It's very easy to use spirituality as a defense mechanism and an escape. I know I've done it, but there must come a time when I just have to be brutally honest with myself and know when I'm trying to bullshit a bullshitter. For myself, I think that's when the real spiritual practice began.

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Re: Narcissism

Postby Onceler » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:26 am

beginnersmind wrote:
Onceler wrote:In my experience, oaktree, spiritually is brutal, sharp as a knife and unsparing. It's the cutting away to simplicity, the reduction not the addition that is essential. I think it's a good sign when we are vulnerable, naked and uncomfortable. Not to say there are no good times in there, transcendence and joy. These things come and go and bliss is a respite and preparation for the next rounded of paring away.

Maybe, this is just my experience. Performance and mileage may vary.


I absolutely agree. I have a friend that always speaks of the quote, "Truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."

I'll say from my experience and some of the "spiritual acting" I've seen from some people, that at first spirituality seems all sunshine and balloons. We read some new ideas, thinking that we "get it" and all that. But once we start doing the work and looking at the dark corners of the mind or shadows as it is sometimes called that we have repressed in some form or another, spirituality can be brutal. It can even cause a kind of "dark night of the soul" phenomena. But as we continue on the journey and releasing/forgiving the repressed parts of our mind that we tried to hide and hide from, we begin to find a deeper peace with what is. This doesn't mean that the human condition just stops and everything is peaches and cream, but that we are more centered and are able to see things more for what they actually are, rather than simply superimposing our egoic narrative onto the situation and calling it a fact.

We're all human and humans have a knack for being able to take things and use them as a defense mechanism and/or an escape and I don't think spirituality is any different. We may have seen (or still see it) in ourselves and/or observed it in others that when first practicing spirituality or more like reading about all these new metaphysical concepts, that we can become even more self centered and self absorbed. We can become even more narcissistic. This is a phase that I think everyone has experienced to some degree at one point or another. Unfortunately, some people get stuck in this phase for a very very long time, or due to neo advaita approaches which causes spiritual immature minds to delude themselves to confuse "cognitive enlightenment" (which is essentially having a concept of metaphysical ideas cause the person read it in a book or was told by some "spiritual authority") with actual awakening to think this narcissistic attitude is what spirituality actually is. I've seen people be very cruel to other people because "it is all an illusion" or there is no "good or bad" at the Absolute metaphysical level.

This is the spirituality trap and is a result of the phenomena known as spiritual bypassing and unfortunately, it is a very common phenomena. This is where we need to honestly look at ourselves and our so called progress on our path. It's very easy to use spirituality as a defense mechanism and an escape. I know I've done it, but there must come a time when I just have to be brutally honest with myself and know when I'm trying to bullshit a bullshitter. For myself, I think that's when the real spiritual practice began.

Eric


Nice, Eric. That was what I was trying to say.....
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Re: Narcissism

Postby DavidB » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:05 am

Some time ago it occurred to me that spirituality can be used as a defense mechanism through denial of anything that might be perceived too challenging or undesirable.

Total acceptance becomes a disassociation or a disconnect from reality. This is like for example when people confuse being awakened with being tolerant, passive and undiscerning. There becomes a sort of refusal to see any sort of responsibility, in favor of maintaining a blissful equilibrium, a feel good ignorance.

We might find this manifesting collectively in the ideologically motivated agendas of multiculturalism, diversity and equality and it's subsequent embracing by feel good new agers and their confused ideas of collective altruistic, egalitarian spiritual Utopianism.

Good hearted, kind and generous people, yet completely delusional.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Narcissism

Postby Onceler » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:20 am

Yup. Been there many times.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby alex » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:12 pm

Thank you onceler for your beautiful reply.
Sometimes it can feel like such a slog through the dark parts - reactions to things seem so much more intense - I think maybe it's just that with consciousness comes a more heightened experience of whatever pain is here. There is a rawness. Sit tight folks - bound to be a bumpy journey!
Lately I have been enjoying the simplicity of feeling. Not trying to feel an emotion to transform or dissolve it in anyway, just the natural organic experience of whatever is here. Maybe the seeker is dissolving a little - more like has been thrashed about and beaten to a submissive pulp.
There is not freedom from emotions just freedom from wishing it was somehow different.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby ashley72 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:44 pm

This talk by Eckhart Tolle "being human" & keeping it real.... Is by far my personal favorite out of all the talks I've watched over the years.

http://youtu.be/PvVacNG4KQY

There is so much BS in spiritual seeking.... Keeping it real is the most important thing you can do as a seeker.

I think it's natural for everyone to improve their lot in life, it's just don't take it to some weird extreme.... stay grounded in normality.

Over the years I became obsessive & over the top whilst seeking, but I eventually reigned in my goals to more normal levels & with that has come contentment for the small things.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby DavidB » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:29 am

Great video talk ashley72, thanks for that.

It is great to see Eckhart express how on the human level he is a normal person with perceived faults and imperfections just like the rest of us. :)


When you're connected with the depth of who you are, in that depth you don't need to become, you are already complete. On the level of the person you're never really complete, there are always things that could be called imperfections,... there are certain things that are limitations... allow yourself to have certain imperfections as long as they don't create suffering, for others or yourself. Become comfortable with things where your not perfect.

As consciousness arises, awakens in you, the awareness arises, it does tend to dissolve those patterns that really F'up your life. -- from Eckhart Tolle TV: How do I balance presence and planning?



Knowing ourselves as the vast consciousness doesn't mean we stop being human, it simply means our happiness is not dependent upon outcomes.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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