Narcissism

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Re: Narcissism

Postby ashley72 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:05 pm

Most people take being in the NOW or present moment to the extreme... When it's not the holy grail of being free from mental suffering.

This is why the part of the talk I really liked is when eckhart clarified in relation to thinking about past/future events. Eckhart reiterated that it is necessary & normal to plan ahead for future events but just don't project an unhappy or worrisome identity in to those future plans. Likewise it's fine to recall past events so you don't repeat the same mistakes.... But again don't keep projecting an unhappy or scornful identity onto those past events.

Therefore clearly, thinking in most of its forms is normal & necessary... It's only unhelpful when the self identity is projected in such a way that it leads to unnecessary & unproductive emotional worry.

So any obsession with trying to stay present in the NOW all the time is really unnecessary.

I believe "exposure therapy" is the most important practice to adopt when dealing with anxiety disorders, you will still need to make future plans about how you will tackle exposure therapy & review past mistakes which caused suffering. But the whole point is not to project a self identity into those thinking patterns which keeps you stuck in emotional worry.

I'm also not a big fan of the obsession seekers have around Universal Consciousness & so called Oneness... I don't see how this helps the individual alleviate mental suffering (unhelpful thinking styles) in anyway.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby Onceler » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:10 am

Nice vid clip, Ashley. I hadn't seen Echart talk in awhile and I was good to get reacquainted.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby dijmart » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:36 am

So any obsession with trying to stay present in the NOW all the time is really unnecessary


Well, the irony here is that any obsession would be happening, now. So, as tolle mentions thinking of past or future can happen only in the now. However, most people don't know they only have this moment, their mind is lost in thoughts of past/future, then miss the present moment. Meaning, they are not aware that the present moment is all they ever have. So, yes, it is then needed to become aware of this fact and try to " catch" when they are projecting themselves needlessly into past or future. That's my 2 cents.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby dijmart » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:09 am

I'm also not a big fan of the obsession seekers have around Universal Consciousness & so called Oneness... I don't see how this helps the individual alleviate mental suffering (unhelpful thinking styles) in anyway.


If it's not for you, then I'd say don't get involved with those conversations. Im not interested in sports, of any kind, therefore I stay out of conversations about sports.

We are all on our own journeys and therefore find different things helpful at different times. Knowing I'm not just this relative mind/body organism bound for old age and death, does alleviate certain aspects of suffering, as well as feeling the inner body presence often and yes, staying in the now...or knowing I'm in the now, regardless of what thinking is needed in the moment.

If exposure therapy works for you then fabuluos! But, it's not the only thing that works. And before you ask, yes, I have had a dx of general anxiety disorder with occas. Panic attacks... I no longer have these symptoms and did no exposure therapy.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby ashley72 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:24 pm

dijmart wrote:
So any obsession with trying to stay present in the NOW all the time is really unnecessary


Well, the irony here is that any obsession would be happening, now. So, as tolle mentions thinking of past or future can happen only in the now. However, most people don't know they only have this moment, their mind is lost in thoughts of past/future, then miss the present moment. Meaning, they are not aware that the present moment is all they ever have. So, yes, it is then needed to become aware of this fact and try to " catch" when they are projecting themselves needlessly into past or future. That's my 2 cents.



Yes, I agree with those sentiments wholeheartedly. There are sufferers who do get stuck in needless worry, which is the whole purpose of having present moment reminders.

I do think present moment reminders are useful for reducing levels of worry. But it wasn't effective for me in overcoming an anxiety disorder. Exposure therapy is the only thing that worked in my own circumstances.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby ashley72 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:50 pm

dijmart wrote:
I'm also not a big fan of the obsession seekers have around Universal Consciousness & so called Oneness... I don't see how this helps the individual alleviate mental suffering (unhelpful thinking styles) in anyway.


If it's not for you, then I'd say don't get involved with those conversations. Im not interested in sports, of any kind, therefore I stay out of conversations about sports.

We are all on our own journeys and therefore find different things helpful at different times. Knowing I'm not just this relative mind/body organism bound for old age and death, does alleviate certain aspects of suffering, as well as feeling the inner body presence often and yes, staying in the now...or knowing I'm in the now, regardless of what thinking is needed in the moment.


Yep ... Not knowing something is often more comfortable than knowing it.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby DavidB » Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:58 am

ashley72 wrote:Most people take being in the NOW or present moment to the extreme... When it's not the holy grail of being free from mental suffering.


You are correct, being free from mental suffering is being free from the attachment to outcomes. No expectation. Allowing the moment to be, is an altogether different thing from trying to be in the moment.

This is why the part of the talk I really liked is when eckhart clarified in relation to thinking about past/future events. Eckhart reiterated that it is necessary & normal to plan ahead for future events but just don't project an unhappy or worrisome identity in to those future plans. Likewise it's fine to recall past events so you don't repeat the same mistakes.... But again don't keep projecting an unhappy or scornful identity onto those past events.

Therefore clearly, thinking in most of its forms is normal & necessary... It's only unhelpful when the self identity is projected in such a way that it leads to unnecessary & unproductive emotional worry.


Indeed, there is nothing wrong with the thinking mind, the problems arise when the thinking mind creates the conditions, either in response to emotion, or as a catalyst for emotion, for suffering and misery.

ashley72 wrote:So any obsession with trying to stay present in the NOW all the time is really unnecessary.


Indeed. And will inadvertently create the conditions for worry and anxiety, when it proves impossible or difficult to achieve being in the NOW.

I'm a fan of exposure therapy as well, I think it is probably one of the best techniques for eliminating fear and associated anxiety. The best technique though for the elimination fear and anxiety, if it is available to you, is realizing that there is no personal self, no attachment, no identity.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Narcissism

Postby DavidB » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:01 am

dijmart wrote:
So any obsession with trying to stay present in the NOW all the time is really unnecessary


Well, the irony here is that any obsession would be happening, now. So, as tolle mentions thinking of past or future can happen only in the now. However, most people don't know they only have this moment, their mind is lost in thoughts of past/future, then miss the present moment. Meaning, they are not aware that the present moment is all they ever have. So, yes, it is then needed to become aware of this fact and try to " catch" when they are projecting themselves needlessly into past or future. That's my 2 cents.


Ah, no.

Thinking about the past and the future has no consequence, when both of these things are done consciously. It doesn't matter at all if one dreams of past experiences or future dreams, the problem only arises when these things become a means for identity and then lead to suffering.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Narcissism

Postby alex » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:45 pm

Ashley: Over the years I became obsessive & over the top whilst seeking, but I eventually reigned in my goals to more normal levels & with that has come contentment for the small things.


Sounds like you're walking the walk re. keeping it real. Nice. I don't think one could maintain obsessive seeking for too long. Maybe the more obsessive the better - you're going to wear yourself out pretty quick and surrender in defeat. Life will show you who's really got the reins!
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Re: Narcissism

Postby ashley72 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:19 pm

DavidB wrote:
ashley72 wrote:Most people take being in the NOW or present moment to the extreme... When it's not the holy grail of being free from mental suffering.


You are correct, being free from mental suffering is being free from the attachment to outcomes. No expectation. Allowing the moment to be, is an altogether different thing from trying to be in the moment.

This is why the part of the talk I really liked is when eckhart clarified in relation to thinking about past/future events. Eckhart reiterated that it is necessary & normal to plan ahead for future events but just don't project an unhappy or worrisome identity in to those future plans. Likewise it's fine to recall past events so you don't repeat the same mistakes.... But again don't keep projecting an unhappy or scornful identity onto those past events.

Therefore clearly, thinking in most of its forms is normal & necessary... It's only unhelpful when the self identity is projected in such a way that it leads to unnecessary & unproductive emotional worry.


Indeed, there is nothing wrong with the thinking mind, the problems arise when the thinking mind creates the conditions, either in response to emotion, or as a catalyst for emotion, for suffering and misery.

ashley72 wrote:So any obsession with trying to stay present in the NOW all the time is really unnecessary.


Indeed. And will inadvertently create the conditions for worry and anxiety, when it proves impossible or difficult to achieve being in the NOW.

I'm a fan of exposure therapy as well, I think it is probably one of the best techniques for eliminating fear and associated anxiety. The best technique though for the elimination fear and anxiety, if it is available to you, is realizing that there is no personal self, no attachment, no identity.


For me when I completely expose myself to others in and all embracing way.... & really accept & invite them into my personal space and have no resistance to anything in that personal space .. you no longer feel self conscious in that moment.

But while it's great to feel free of your self for a moment, self awareness still plays an important part in a persons development. As a child's self-awareness increases they tend to separate and become their own person which is central to becoming self reliant.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby dijmart » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:44 pm

DavidB wrote:
dijmart wrote:
So any obsession with trying to stay present in the NOW all the time is really unnecessary


Well, the irony here is that any obsession would be happening, now. So, as tolle mentions thinking of past or future can happen only in the now. However, most people don't know they only have this moment, their mind is lost in thoughts of past/future, then miss the present moment. Meaning, they are not aware that the present moment is all they ever have. So, yes, it is then needed to become aware of this fact and try to " catch" when they are projecting themselves needlessly into past or future. That's my 2 cents.


Ah, no.

Thinking about the past and the future has no consequence, when both of these things are done consciously. It doesn't matter at all if one dreams of past experiences or future dreams, the problem only arises when these things become a means for identity and then lead to suffering.


Aren't we saying the same thing here? You just put different words to it, but same meaning to me.
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Re: Narcissism

Postby Onceler » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:36 am

Back to your original post about narcissism, Alex, here's an interesting article/study....no idea how valid the study is.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2014/08/06 ... 73260.html
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Re: Narcissism

Postby rachMiel » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:19 am

alex wrote:I don't think one could maintain obsessive seeking for too long.

Never underestimate the power of obsession! ;-)
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Re: Narcissism

Postby alex » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:06 pm

Thanks for the link - Am I a narcissist? Hmm - I had a fairly traumatic experience which caused some deep low self worth. It sent me on a trajectory of trying to find validation through what others think of me, trying to find acceptance, being 'normal'. Is that narcissism? I'm fairly aware of how I operate in this manner. I definitely know I've got some pretty dark and fucked up conditioning but I don't know for sure if it makes me a narcissist? I know I have empathy - I can't watch people or animals suffering, i cry easily seeing sad stuff.I spent an entire Christmas Eve once bawling thinking about the poor little trackers around the world that wouldnt even get dinner that night.
What do you think?
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Re: Narcissism

Postby DavidB » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:56 am

dijmart wrote:Aren't we saying the same thing here? You just put different words to it, but same meaning to me.


I guess so.

ashley72 wrote:So any obsession with trying to stay present in the NOW all the time is really unnecessary.


I think the word "trying" is the key here in ashley's post. Trying to stay present in the NOW is unnecessary, as the trying supposes that one is not already presently in the now and the now becomes a state which needs to be achieved. Consequently, the now becomes an elusive goal, as the obsession potentially creates frustration and disappointment when the goal cannot be achieved.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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