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Re: Belief

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:10 pm
by DavidB
ashley72 wrote: To really understand belief, you first need to have a well define understanding of "truth".

Let's define "truth" as a process by which a perceiver accurately copies what is known as "objective reality" and then representing it in thoughts, words and other symbols.

"Belief" then represents the distance or gap between the symbolic representation of human knowledge and actual objective reality (truth).

I agree with WW... You can't escape belief its simply a consequence of human perception. In other words, you don't get any closer to the truth by not adopting any beliefs.
This seems to make truth appear as though something methodical. True, it often does require for a while, a method to realize truth, which may require some belief or another, although in and of itself, the truth is never dependent upon any method.

The truth (of who we really are, in essence) cannot be know through belief, yet belief can be a mechanism through which we come to know this.

Re: Belief

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:05 pm
by snowheight
DavidB wrote:
snowheight wrote:
DavidB wrote:One of the most common threads of general popular culture, is this notion, "you must believe".

I tend to find this whole notion of belief to be restrictive and delusional. I wonder what others think?
Image
Forgive my ignorance snowheight, I have no idea what this represents. Care to elaborate?
The lit match is a metaphor for the belief that underlies identification with the form and time-bound personalized self. Once on fire, it becomes a contagion.

Re: Belief

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:59 am
by DavidB
snowheight wrote:The lit match is a metaphor for the belief that underlies identification with the form and time-bound personalized self. Once on fire, it becomes a contagion.
Oh right, thanks, makes sense I suppose.

What's beneath the matches, a 44 gallon drum of gasoline? :wink:

Re: Belief

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:53 pm
by ashley72
The Interesting property of belief is it has the capacity to act on human behaviors. So much so that a self fulfilling prophecy
can occur. Whereby a belief can be false to start with, but that false belief can act on social behavior to an extent that the false belief can become true! This happens because belief and behavior are linked by human emotions... they are part of the same nervous system so positive feedback between belief & behavior can happen. This is when the output acts back on the input cycle.

A bank run is a prime example. Actually economical cycles are governed by this same behaviour... Economists call it the boom/bust cycle another metaphor would be the greed stampede!

Re: Belief

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:20 pm
by vivianamis
All beliefs are lies. The Truth is beyond belief or better said...Truth is known when belief is absent. Beliefs cloud the mind....I believe ; )

Re: Belief

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:05 pm
by kiki
Beliefs cloud the mind....I believe ; )
I believe you are right, vivian. :wink:

Re: Belief

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:47 am
by Webwanderer
I guess I see beliefs in terms of what value they bring to life experience. Sure, one could say that beliefs cloud the mind, they surely do. But another way is to look at beliefs in terms of a perceptual structure that creates perspective, and perspective is key to specific types of experience. And while one experience may be more pleasant than another, who can say what experience is ultimately more valuable, or whether there is underlying purpose involved?

Are our birth conditions random or accidental? Or is our life circumstances and environment from early age relative to a greater purpose? These questions matter in the consideration of our belief structures and the type of experiences and challenges we encounter as our human life unfolds.

WW

Re: Belief

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:28 am
by DavidB
vivianamis wrote:All beliefs are lies. The Truth is beyond belief or better said...Truth is known when belief is absent. Beliefs cloud the mind....I believe ; )
So what about law and order, property rights, ethics, morality and political ideology? What are we to do with all of these belief systems? Get rid of them?

Re: Belief

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:37 pm
by ashley72
"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

Re: Belief

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:52 pm
by Manyana
ashley72 wrote:"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
LOL

Re: Belief

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:11 pm
by vivianamis
DavidB wrote:
vivianamis wrote:All beliefs are lies. The Truth is beyond belief or better said...Truth is known when belief is absent. Beliefs cloud the mind....I believe ; )
So what about law and order, property rights, ethics, morality and political ideology? What are we to do with all of these belief systems? Get rid of them?
As long as we believe we need law and order...we do. The need for law and order and all the other beautiful things you named are founded on the belief in separation. In oneness or realization of our real Self, there is no need for any beliefs for there is no desire nor fear nor an "other" : )

Re: Belief

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:50 pm
by dijmart
vivianamis wrote:
DavidB wrote:
vivianamis wrote:All beliefs are lies. The Truth is beyond belief or better said...Truth is known when belief is absent. Beliefs cloud the mind....I believe ; )
So what about law and order, property rights, ethics, morality and political ideology? What are we to do with all of these belief systems? Get rid of them?
As long as we believe we need law and order...we do. The need for law and order and all the other beautiful things you named are founded on the belief in separation. In oneness or realization of our real Self, there is no need for any beliefs for there is no desire nor fear nor an "other" : )
Nice! :D

Re: Belief

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:09 am
by Clouded
I like positive beliefs.

My whole existence relies on beliefs. It doesn't have to be a belief about the self, it can be a belief about anything. Like I believe that I am holding an apple in my hand and I am going to eat it.

Re: Belief

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:12 am
by DavidB
vivianamis wrote:As long as we believe we need law and order...we do. The need for law and order and all the other beautiful things you named are founded on the belief in separation. In oneness or realization of our real Self, there is no need for any beliefs for there is no desire nor fear nor an "other" : )
True, which is not to say that any of those things we use, such as laws and such, are not useful or of any benefit.

Re: Belief

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:15 am
by DavidB
Clouded wrote:Like I believe that I am holding an apple in my hand and I am going to eat it.
You don't need to believe that in order for it to be true. For example, we don't need to believe that the sun will rise in the morning in order for that to happen. :wink: