Creating change....from within

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Creating change....from within

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:59 am

I had a very interesting discussion today with a friend of mine. She's a naturopathic doctor who travels around the world to assist in healing in homeopathic methods. She's incredibly devoted to her craft and she's a master herbalist as well, and she's quite passionate about it.

Well, her and I had a bit of a talk today. She started telling me how concerned she was over what's happening in the world, with the Syrian refugee crisis. She told me she feels bad that she's not well read on this and feels like an 'ignorant American'. She's actually in Greece right now studying homeopathy, so she's around this stuff more so and wants to have a better representation of USA.

She then began to go on a diatribe about meditation and how the modern new age culture of 'going within' is narcissistic, selfish and bullshit. She was pretty adamant and angry and used several foul words to describe how she felt about the new age 'consciousness' movement as she describes it. She said there needs to balance, but she didn't seem too enthused about the inner self part, and true authenticity and truly encountering what that actually means beyond thought, feelings, emotions and labels. She wants to heal the world by interacting with it and learning about it which I commended her for. And she feels that most Americans are incredibly self indulgent selfish assholes (her words) that don't give a shit about anything, but themselves. Her and I are both American.

For me, authenticity and going within myself, to see who I truly AM, is right now, the most important aspect of my life and is an on going evolving journey as I constantly surrender more and more to life and allow my experience to be. It's why I am here in this physical body, and it has everything to do with true change as far as I am concerned. I feel that those who are SO concerned to the point where they are worried about it, with changing the external world, are missing the simple point, that the external is always a projection of the internal on an energetic conscious/unconscious level. We are here to relate....to learn about ourselves in contrast to others. We are here to grow and evolve as conscious Beings. We are each at different levels of evolution. Everything is in relation....to everything else. Everything that bothers us about other people and the world itself, is always a chance to go within ourselves deeper. Vulnerability is the true way to Love I am finding.

Let me flat out say....that in NO way means that we shouldn't do anything to help other people externally. No, of course not. Compassion is compassion and you can help others in any context. A few lovely words to a neighbor in the elevator, or someone online at a store, or how about being the space for an angry friend who is caught in ego and understanding where that friend is operating out of (as we've all been there) and just being the Love for that person is an incredible act of humility and true compassion and love on an external level. Donate to charities, give to the homeless, travel around to offer healing mechanisms to less fortunate regions, vote for a candidate that represents your interests..... but stop worrying about the external!! If you're acting and acting and acting out of concern for the world, without a grounding in presence, without an understanding that the appearance of the world is an energetic manifestation of so many co-creative factors, then you're just changing the movie screen without realizing it's the projection itself which is where the meat of true change comes from. We are not here to change the world on the outside alone, but change the world, by going within ourselves. The energy of the world will only change when we wake up to who we truly are and there's no rush for that either.

She got very angry and apologized that it wasn't directed towards me, but that she's tired of the 'mindfulness meditation' movement and finds it incredible selfish and narcissistic. In some ways, I agree with her. I think there are people in the spiritual community who mistake the concept of 'the world is not real' as if to mean, nothing is real. I've posted about this many times in my short time on this forum and won't go further, but I INCREDIBLY disagree and I think the world is VERY real from our human perspectives and that's all we need to know while incarnate. However, on the other hand, I incredibly disagree with her as well, because balance is one thing....but who we truly are is not in an external appearance.....it's the unconditional love within and as each and every one of us. The only way to truly connect to that is through meditation or some other form of going within ourselves by ALLOWING and SURRENDER. Trying so hard to make change on the outside is just another form of controlling I find (from my own experience).

Going within yourself is the most loving thing you can possibly do to make a true change on the outside.

True Surrender is truly realizing that there IS no separation.

Thought I'd share.
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby dijmart » Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:35 am

I find it quite puzzling how someone could have anger towards others who are not hurting anyone, yeah I don't get that. She's obviously a doer or enjoys "doing" vs. Being. Perhaps, she doesn't even "get" what being means, but to know awareness as what you are doesn't mean you also aren't doing.

I personally don't think we can change the world with the current state of dominate consciousness on the planet. That doesn't make me sad or worry though, because it is as it should be at this time, imo, or it wouldn't be.
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:22 pm

In my opinion, true 'Doing' comes from 'Being'. There's a lot to do in life and there's a whole lot that absolutely CAN be done on an external level to make change, but, that alone, is kind of like not seeing 'the forest for the trees' and in a way is putting a band-aid on something deeper, just like treating a patient symptom by symptom, not realizing the cause of the symptoms is a manifestation of something on a deeper energetic level.

That's why I just really don't worry about the world. I just can't get caught up with it as bad as that might sound. I don't watch the news anymore, other than trying to keep on top of political races to some degree. It's not the same as saying I don't feel compassion after hearing a sad news story from someone or a loving compassionate news story. But, wanting to run out and change everything about the world, getting so identified in politics, is a product of not understanding who I AM and what the world actually IS, I feel.

And this girl's tone was very angry towards something that we all talk about on this forum (presence, meditation, etc) and likely the result of something she finds threatening I feel.
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby Sighclone » Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:52 pm

E2B -

Very interesting about your friend. She is in an arena where the gross physical suffering of humans (also as in Mumbai today) is so visible that the luxury of meditation and ashrams is offensive. I can understand that perspective. Who cares about how well-cooked a meal is when you are starving? She is wrong, of course, about the value of spiritual growth for an individual who has the luxury of time and situation to practice it; and I agree with your comments about the value of awakening. But when simply keeping the body alive, eating and breathing, etc. is a challenge, "transcending the ego" is trivial.

But for her to say to ten individuals that they should stop whatever they are doing spiritually and devote their money and time to aiding Syrian refugees is a grandiose assumption about what is right for each of those individuals at that time. Just because she is doing that ( ....OOPS, she's not, she's in an advanced school of some sort in Greece??? ... ) does not mean that anyone else "should." Is there something beneath her angry complaint that actually reflects judgment on her current activity (perhaps she believes she should be in an NGO helping the Syrians, not in Greece?) Very often, when we have a strong judgment, there is something going on inside...

Andy
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby dijmart » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:08 pm

What I meant was that she seems to put more "value" on doing and may feel that if one is not "doing" to support a cause, then your an asshole, as she put it. I just don't see things that way.

Oh, btw, I don't watch the news either or listen to it. I hear about the news if someone tells me. I don't talk or follow politics either.
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:28 pm

Sighclone wrote:But when simply keeping the body alive, eating and breathing, etc. is a challenge, "transcending the ego" is trivial.


Very much agree. It's so easy for me to sit here in New York and say what other people in third world countries or such should or should not do spiritually. That would be an arrogant assumption on my part. That's why, in some capacity, I agree with her in the context that some people do believe that they are immune to anything in the world and its problems simply because they grasped a certain message by Adyashanti or Ramana or Mooji or whoever's message and believe that they live in a protective bubble of non-duality, by claiming the external is 'not real'. That stuff drives me ape shit haha.

On the other hand, there was clearly a deeper issue that arose when I brought up 'going within' to her that triggered something quite wild haha. I was really taken back by her body language as we were talking over facebook facetime and I think that kind of reaction is a sign that something about the notion of 'Eternal Now' or 'Presence' contradicts a particular belief of someone's. She's been a 'doer' for a long time in the context of believing that everything can be healed on a physical level, and I think the notion of a deeper context to who we truly are, and a deeper reality is threatening to some people, especially those who identify so much with their lifestyles (hers being a natural doctor healer).
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:34 pm

dijmart wrote:
Oh, btw, I don't watch the news either or listen to it. I hear about the news if someone tells me. I don't talk or follow politics either.


Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to keep up to date on all of the BS going on here with the upcoming election, just so I have an idea of who I don't want to vote for haha. But, I vote third party either way. The two party system in this country is an utter joke and that goes for both the left and the right.

That aside, considering I am trying to do something so loving for not just myself, but for life itself, by going within myself, being too caught up with political positions is something that I am trying to get away FROM. The news is only negative and biased anyway.

Bill Hicks said it best. What a great mind he was.

"It's just a ride". Stop taking it all so seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgzQuE1pR1w
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby dijmart » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:27 pm

So, once I've thought about it some more what I want to say is, yes, folks will not be too concerned about self realization if their basic needs are not met. That's what Maslows hierarchy of needs is about and I do understand that and I feel compassion for them. I myself can not help those people. When more people on the planet become awakened maybe things will change and stay changed for the better. Complete systems need to be changed and will change when more people are awakened and aware of the awareness that they are, until then...there will be wars, famine, murder, ect....unfortunately.
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby dijmart » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:55 pm

That aside, considering I am trying to do something so loving for not just myself, but for life itself


Yes, absolutely!
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby Sighclone » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:25 am

the notion of 'Eternal Now' or 'Presence' contradicts a particular belief of someone's. She's been a 'doer' for a long time in the context of believing that everything can be healed on a physical level


Could be true. Can you ask her about that issue and remove all the judgments about what other people should or should not be doing? Sounds like her ego is threatened, a big part of which is the doing doing doing behavior. She may be "doing" to avoid facing something going on inside below the conscious level...I know people like that.

Andy
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby DavidB » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:00 am

Thanks for sharing E2B, you and all the people here certainly are a powerful agent for change in this world, simply by being the change we want to see. Keep up the great work E2B, it definitely gives me comfort knowing that there are people like you making the world a better place for us all.

I used to be like this woman you describe. I used to be under the mistaken belief that the reason I felt so shit was because the world was shit and if I could just make the world change to a safer and happier place, then I would feel safer and happier. I had projected my state of consciousness onto the world and then blamed the world for how I felt. People were idiots and the world sucked. And of course, I digested the news and constantly found evidence to validate my beliefs, that people were idiots and the world sucked.

In short, I was angry and afraid, and it was people and the world that made me angry and afraid. So there was an anxious desperation to force the world to change. It wasn't until I realized that there was within me an imagined sense of self through which the my entire experience was being filtered, that the agent for change came from within.

Enlightened2B wrote:Going within yourself is the most loving thing you can possibly do to make a true change on the outside.

True Surrender is truly realizing that there IS no separation.

Thought I'd share.


Let your light shine E2B, thanks for sharing. :D
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby Sighclone » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:41 am

A traveler walked up the community well on the edge of a village. An old man was sitting there and smiled at him. The traveler filled his jug and sat down and looked around at the town and said, "What sort of people live here?"

The old man said, "What sort of people lived in the place you came from?"

The traveler said, "Shits...they were all shits."

The old man said, "yes, they are the same here."

The traveler went on his way. A bit later a different traveler, tired and dusty came up to the well and drank deeply. He also looked around and sat down next to the old man, with a sad face and asked the same question, "What sort of people live here?"

The old man asked the same question, "What sort of people lived in the place you came from?"

The second traveler replied, "Lovely, they were all lovely- I had to leave because the drought forced us out. I am looking for a place to live."

The old man said, "The people here are lovely, too -- you will be welcome."



Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:43 am

Thank you for the kind responses. Nice story Andy although I'm not sure I get it in relation to this thread haha.

Authenticity to me, is not necessarily about making a change in the world (although the intent to be compassionate is immersed in it), as much as it is about Being the most honest, authentic Me as I can be which is Love in itself, which does change the world on a deeper level. That Me is the true Me...the I AM, not the me I believe myself to be via thought. This path feels right for me now. I feel like we are here first and foremost to wake up to our authentic selves and THEN make any changes that can be made. The world truly is a projection of our inner selves on every level. If more people would truly delve into themselves, they would so clearly see this.

We can't force the world to wake up. We can't force change on the world either. Worrying about it is only counter productive to what we came here to do, which is to experience and in the process, grown and evolve as conscious beings. We come to Earth to learn about our true nature which is Love itself. We learn this through contrast and experience, by relating and by healing. The world will wake up when it's ready to wake up. We have a choice as to whether we want to pollute our energy field with negativity or whether we want to align with a more positive energetic vibration. If people understood the power of thought/belief, I think a lot less people would be tuning in to the nightly news.

Wanting to travel to help in aid in Syria or another situation of the like is very very different than getting worked up and agonizing over the idea that the world is falling apart and I and other Americans are not doing enough to change it, which is what my friend was saying and why I disagreed with her. I say do what you can to help if you are able to offer help in that context, and stop worrying when it's out of your control. There's a much larger perspective at play anyway.
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:49 am

Maybe I should type small :lol: ... there is 'imagined reality' and real reality --- best not to confuse the two.

I think Andy hit the nail on the head with 'luxury' with regards to navel gazing and Di was on the right track with Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If you're knee deep in shit (and Greece is, as well as many of its neighbours, and they are in closer proximity to the human tragedies all around them) then it's a little hard to see the value of folks gazing at their navels unless at some point that change within flows outwards with equal force to the shit. And quite clearly -----it doesn't.

Oh yes we muse, one day the whole world will wake up and all will be well - or folks will just learn to live in their shit.

That's not growth, that's avoidance, it's not true, it's fantasy.

No change happens without action from the inner to the outer.
No change happens without honest awareness and application of our capacity.
Those enacting change are those people sharing their love from the inside to the outside. (eg the people in Berlin at the moment).

If it just stays inside it's nothing. It needs to flow and to flow there needs to be movement - action, giving & receiving sure you can stay on a self-help loop, but then you are insulating yourself with the same distractions and BS that materialists do. Pad yourself with enough 'spirit' and you won't feel. It's another shut down.

Love expands - fear contracts. Simple as.

I can understand her anger and her passion.
The tide of change is moving through Europe now just as the tide of displaced and desperate people is moving, she can't ignore it any more and the lies she bought into previously are unravelling in the face of reality. (one might call it waking up from the 'American Dream').

Two things are flowing simultaneously - one is the 'let them eat cake' coming down on the masses from the 'powers above' - if we feed them - the new football stadium, the new gadget, the new 'reality tv show', the new takeaway menu, the new 'career', whatever self interest + we feed them fear that someone is going to come and take that away from them (even before they've attained them) we will hold the materialists to 'our cause'.

The other is as she has noticed for those on a spiritual level - -- if we feed them morsels of 'wisdom' and tell them that all the 'outer' shit doesn't matter they will more easily ignore their pangs of compassion and not rise up at the injustices either - both are population pacifiers.

And, as long as we fall into either one of those audiences we'll still be living in delusion and distraction - different delusions yes, but delusions none the less, different distractions absolutely, but distractions none the less.

Why can her 'anger' not just be passion in response - equal response equal energetic intensity - passion to what she is witnessing? such as JC had in the synagogue where all things were turned upside down (because in his anger / passion they already were - upside down aka shit).

If you want to talk authenticity then you need to ask the right questions.

eg: Why is a 'border' something that is not real - stopping human beings from seeking shelter and safety from state sanctioned & actioned violence? Why are we allowing, condoning, financing and/or participating in state sanctioned and actioned violence?

You can ignore, you can excuse, you can distract yourself from the reality - but if you really want to BE HERE you have to know shit when you see it, call it what it is and respond to it as it really is... otherwise it just keeps on stinking.

There are three (not one) modalities of awakened doing ----- accept, change or remove yourself from the situation.
If we default to 'accept' before being honest about whether we can change or contribute anything.. we are cheating ourselves and the world of our true, authentic participation in the world.

No one gets out of here alive - and as the now passed Dr Wayne Dyer reminded himself by stitching up his pockets --- you take nothing with you - so there is no reason for being here except to fully live it.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Creating change....from within

Postby Sighclone » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:38 am

As ever, Smiiley, great comments. It's especially good to recall that all three are options (accept, change or remove oneself.) (Heck anybody should be able to find an excuse for anything in there...!!) But declaring what another person should do regarding the Syrian refugees, or sex trafficking in Armenia, or a dozen other global atrocities is a grandiose assumption about them, and their path and the universe. Maybe all that one individual needs to do is spend one more day at the meditation retreat to realize that they need to write a big check to the appropriate NGO. Maybe just ten more minutes of navel-staring. For anybody over the age of about twelve, I'm pretty careful about using the word "should." I have no problem suggesting the likely outcome of using oxycontin three days in a row to a 15-year-old grandson, however. But really, do I know for sure that he or she may be best served by a drug-dependent spiral followed by rehab? I may have had some personal Big Spiritual Experiences ... whoopee. But frankly, my dear, I don't know what anybody SHOULD do tomorrow.

The little story was about David's projection of his own malaise (or joy) onto the world -- each traveler was encouraged to do that, with different results.

Andy
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There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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