A Question

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A Question

Postby alex » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:02 pm

So - there is recognising being, recognising that being is what I am. Then there is resting there, effortlessly. Then there is detachment from even that - awareness is free even from pure awareness. There is nothing to hold it, no place to stick to. Life is a dance.
Do you know what I mean?
Is it about learning to let the dance happen always? Is it about continuous not knowing?
The recognising of truth is simpler than almost anything - holding fidelity to that recognition, bringing that recognition to everyday life, that is the hard part.
I have an inkling that enlightenment really is the end of your world. Ha! It's truly hilarious just how ripped off the spiritual seeking ego ends up - here's a big fat plate of nothing, in fact - just go over there and die in the corner. Better hope that big fat plate of nothing is really what you want to order.
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Re: A Question

Postby runstrails » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:32 pm

HI Alex,
Hope you are well :D.

Enlightenment is self-knowledge or self-realization. That is, the direct knowledge that your true self is eternal, full (whole), awareness. However, this knowledge is not liberation (or moksha). Enlightenment is neither an experiential state nor it is not freedom!

Moksha (freedom) occurs when the vasanas (desires) are rendered unbinding. That is, freedom is for the apparent person from the binding vasanas of the apparent person. Awareness is, of course, always free. This can be hard work if the binding vasanas are firmly entrenched.

When self-knowledge is firm (that is, there are no doubts that you are awareness), then the perspective is from the self (awareness), but the doer can still surface and cause mental agitation. Karma yoga, dharma yoga and jnana yoga are the key here to neutralizing the doer perspective which cases mental agitation. This phase is called Nidhidhyasana (self-assimilation) and essentially consists of the rest of your life as a human after self-realization. And of course, even though there is the firm realization that one is the self, one continues to associate with the apparent person to navigate and enjoy the world.

Anyway, I highly recommend traditional Vedanta as it has a cosmology, vocabulary and time-tested methodology for bringing about both self-realization and moksha. The two best websites for westerners are http://www.shiningworld.com/site/ and http://www.nevernotpresent.com/

Traditional Vedanta is a powerful teaching that has the best answers to doubts and questions about enlightenment. Importantly, the teachings are verifiable. It's pretty amazing stuff.

Hope this is helpful. rt
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Re: A Question

Postby snowheight » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:47 am

alex wrote:So - there is recognising being, recognising that being is what I am. Then there is resting there, effortlessly. Then there is detachment from even that - awareness is free even from pure awareness. There is nothing to hold it, no place to stick to. Life is a dance.
Do you know what I mean?
Is it about learning to let the dance happen always? Is it about continuous not knowing?
The recognising of truth is simpler than almost anything - holding fidelity to that recognition, bringing that recognition to everyday life, that is the hard part.
I have an inkling that enlightenment really is the end of your world. Ha! It's truly hilarious just how ripped off the spiritual seeking ego ends up - here's a big fat plate of nothing, in fact - just go over there and die in the corner. Better hope that big fat plate of nothing is really what you want to order.


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Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.
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Re: A Question

Postby DavidB » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:41 pm

alex wrote:Is it about learning to let the dance happen always? Is it about continuous not knowing?


If what you mean by "learning to let the dance happen always", you mean total acceptance for what is? Then yes.

If what you mean by "continuous not knowing", you mean the knower cannot be known? Then yes.

alex wrote:The recognising of truth is simpler than almost anything - holding fidelity to that recognition, bringing that recognition to everyday life, that is the hard part.


That's a great point, and I agree.

Being present enough to know when unconsciousness has recurred. Uncovering and revealing all those little demons hiding in the shadows (metaphorically speaking), that draw us back into unconsciousness.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: A Question

Postby atte72 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:54 pm

Now that we are full of... lots of things (thoughts, beliefs, identity, etc.) we constantly "fight" against a sense of emptiness. And we never stop asking for more. But all of those who have achieved or tasted that nothing you talk about, talk about a complete sense of... full. So in.order to fill full, we'd better stop ordering empty plates. So why do I keep ordering those :(? I suppose because I am a mind addict and I keep telling myself that I can stop whenever I want :)
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Re: A Question

Postby alex » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:49 am

runstrails said:
HI Alex,
Hope you are well :D.


Hey trails! I hope you are well too, sorry for my delayed reply. I've been rather busy. Thanks for the links, I will check them out. I think I remember you talking about some kind of yoga a while ago and I liked the sound of it. I must say I've had trouble aligning myself with any particular set way of doing things, particularly anything traditional. Questioning beliefs, self enquiry and surrendering in the moment really seem to be all I can stick with. Of course there are the other elements of a spiritual life that can be super helpful and are maybe more important than I give credit for - things like service to others, compassion, generally not being an ass hole. They feel good and life wouldn't be much without them I don't think.

Snowheight - that is the funniest smiley I've ever seen!! ha, looks like it's on some good gear.

atte72 said:
But all of those who have achieved or tasted that nothing you talk about, talk about a complete sense of... full.

Yes it's true - from the perspective of the ego it can seem so empty, lacking somehow, which is probably the perspective I was speaking from when I originally posted this. However, when you completely surrender to what is here and to the emptiness within you become so full, full because you are everything, full because there is only everything. Awesomeness.

DavidB wrote:
Being present enough to know when unconsciousness has recurred. Uncovering and revealing all those little demons hiding in the shadows (metaphorically speaking), that draw us back into unconsciousness.

Yerp - it's amazing that truth lies within the kernels of those little demons isn't it? That by recognising the falseness of them we release the attachment to them and are catapulted into spaciousness and truth.
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Re: A Question

Postby the key master » Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:30 am

alex wrote:So - there is recognising being, recognising that being is what I am. Then there is resting there, effortlessly. Then there is detachment from even that - awareness is free even from pure awareness.


What?

There is nothing to hold it, no place to stick to. Life is a dance.
Do you know what I mean?
Is it about learning to let the dance happen always? Is it about continuous not knowing?
The recognising of truth is simpler than almost anything - holding fidelity to that recognition, bringing that recognition to everyday life, that is the hard part.


Sounds like continuous unconsciousness.

I have an inkling that enlightenment really is the end of your world. Ha! It's truly hilarious just how ripped off the spiritual seeking ego ends up - here's a big fat plate of nothing, in fact - just go over there and die in the corner. Better hope that big fat plate of nothing is really what you want to order.


The spiritual ego doesn't really end up ripped off. It just so happens to not exist, which is a major jip. :roll:
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Re: A Question

Postby the key master » Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:37 am

runstrails wrote:HI Alex,
Hope you are well :D.

Enlightenment is self-knowledge or self-realization. That is, the direct knowledge that your true self is eternal, full (whole), awareness. However, this knowledge is not liberation (or moksha). Enlightenment is neither an experiential state nor it is not freedom!



Not an experiential state nor is it not freedom? So it's freedom that can't be experienced? Maybe the rest of your post will shine some light.

Moksha (freedom) occurs when the vasanas (desires) are rendered unbinding. That is, freedom is for the apparent person from the binding vasanas of the apparent person. Awareness is, of course, always free. This can be hard work if the binding vasanas are firmly entrenched.



Freedom is realizing you are not the apparent person. :oops:
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Re: A Question

Postby the key master » Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:40 am

DavidB wrote:
alex wrote:Is it about learning to let the dance happen always? Is it about continuous not knowing?


If what you mean by "learning to let the dance happen always", you mean total acceptance for what is? Then yes.

If what you mean by "continuous not knowing", you mean the knower cannot be known? Then yes.

alex wrote:The recognising of truth is simpler than almost anything - holding fidelity to that recognition, bringing that recognition to everyday life, that is the hard part.


That's a great point, and I agree.

Being present enough to know when unconsciousness has recurred. Uncovering and revealing all those little demons hiding in the shadows (metaphorically speaking), that draw us back into unconsciousness.


You can't really be drawn back into unconsciousness. The you that could go into presence or consciousness is already an indication of identification, which just so happens to always be, unconscious.
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Re: A Question

Postby alex » Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:38 pm

I see why you called yourself the key master, when you get bored of being god you should come down for a chat :D
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Re: A Question

Postby the key master » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:21 pm

alex wrote:I see why you called yourself the key master, when you get bored of being god you should come down for a chat :D


Fire up the barby. :mrgreen:
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Re: A Question

Postby the key master » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:01 am

Ha I meant barbie. Fire up the BBQ pit.
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Re: A Question

Postby alex » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:31 pm

ok, give me a holler when you're on your way ;)
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Re: A Question

Postby alex » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:33 pm

.. just send a lightning bolt down into my yard or something..
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Re: A Question

Postby the key master » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:15 pm

alex wrote:.. just send a lightning bolt down into my yard or something..


10-4. I'll have an armadillo sandwich.

**wanders into laboratory, fires up Tesla doomsday device**
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