Nature of dreams

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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby the key master » Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:33 am

dijmart wrote:My point was, if you're doing anything, because you can't stop, then you're being controlled by it...that's not freedom. I don't want to be controlled by smoking, food or anything else...that's what was meant by binding vasanas. They agitate the mind needlessly.


If you're being controlled by smoking, then it would seem you want to be controlled by smoking. I don't mean to imply quitting isn't possible, or even a worthwhile goal, only that there isn't some other person which isn't you making the choice to smoke. You're the one doing that.

Now, I don't mean to come across judgmental. I've certainly dealt with tons of split mind and addiction issues. The desires, or the feeling seeking mentality, can be a form of suppression. When these suppressed feelings are noticed by the mind, the mind will then turn to the seeking game to pretend it didn't notice the feelings smoking or any form of pleasure can take the place of, thus leaving a vibration on an unconscious level. Demonizing smoking, or desire, or anything, is just the projection of the suppressed feelings.
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby dijmart » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:14 am

the key master wrote:
dijmart wrote:My point was, if you're doing anything, because you can't stop, then you're being controlled by it...that's not freedom. I don't want to be controlled by smoking, food or anything else...that's what was meant by binding vasanas. They agitate the mind needlessly.


If you're being controlled by smoking, then it would seem you want to be controlled by smoking. I don't mean to imply quitting isn't possible, or even a worthwhile goal, only that there isn't some other person which isn't you making the choice to smoke. You're the one doing that.

Now, I don't mean to come across judgmental. I've certainly dealt with tons of split mind and addiction issues. The desires, or the feeling seeking mentality, can be a form of suppression. When these suppressed feelings are noticed by the mind, the mind will then turn to the seeking game to pretend it didn't notice the feelings smoking or any form of pleasure can take the place of, thus leaving a vibration on an unconscious level. Demonizing smoking, or desire, or anything, is just the projection of the suppressed feelings.


There's only one mind, yup, but it's been acting like 2 minds (one that wants to indulge and one that sees the negative stuff), If I want to smoke I have to take all the seemingly bad things about smoking with the choice to smoke and be done with it. If I choose to quit, I may have some "feelings" about that to contend with energy wise, but all the negatives associated with smoking will be gone. Making "one" decision that entails the full package and sticking to that, will end the self sabatoging and cure the split mind or so it seems.

And again, I know I'm awareness only, the mind is within awareness, therefore is an object enlivened by awareness itself. The mind depends upon awareness for its existence, but awareness depends upon nothing for its reality. However, awareness is associated with the mind for a time. I know all this, but assimilation of this knowledge is what I'm working on. So working on aspects of the mind that are in unconscious patterns still is part of that. Bringing thoughs aspects into conscious awareness and seeing there unreality.

I wonder what addictions or split mind stuff you've dealt with and how it went for you?
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby the key master » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:56 pm

dij said
There's only one mind, yup, but it's been acting like 2 minds (one that wants to indulge and one that sees the negative stuff), If I want to smoke I have to take all the seemingly bad things about smoking with the choice to smoke and be done with it. If I choose to quit, I may have some "feelings" about that to contend with energy wise, but all the negatives associated with smoking will be gone. Making "one" decision that entails the full package and sticking to that, will end the self sabatoging and cure the split mind or so it seems.



Right on.

And again, I know I'm awareness only, the mind is within awareness, therefore is an object enlivened by awareness itself. The mind depends upon awareness for its existence, but awareness depends upon nothing for its reality. However, awareness is associated with the mind for a time. I know all this, but assimilation of this knowledge is what I'm working on. So working on aspects of the mind that are in unconscious patterns still is part of that. Bringing thoughs aspects into conscious awareness and seeing there unreality.


Well. yes, there you have it, the assimilation of the knowledge of being awareness is the loss of knowledge that you are something else. If it were truly known that awareness is you, thoughts appearing in awareness wouldn't be worrying about bringing unconscious patterns to light or assimilating anything, because what awareness is doesn't need to get out of person identification. It's already out, but is simultaneously under the delusion of that very identification in various human creatures suffering through various levels of disconnection.

From within the delusion of identification the focus formulates to get out of identification, because who likes suffering? The mind in identification can't do anything to get out, because freedom is from the very mind that would attempt anything in the first place. So, what do you do? With suffering and split mind games can come an urge to transcend, and with that urge greater consciousness of the mind games and the causal forces behind them. In this sense seeking freedom from identification, which can virtually mirror the desire to be free of addictive patterns, is just another mind game designed to avoid the loss of identification. Mind wants protection, not exposure, which i why I rarely tell people what to do something but instead talk about being conscious and noticing things.

On that line, feeling free of vasanas is an effect of noticing you are not a person that is in the grip of vasanas. Quitting smoking will not cause this freedom, because this freedom isn't caused by something else and is already free without the need for cultivation. Put another way, the focus to alter behavior arises from within the delusion of identification, and nothing done from within that delusion will cause awareness to be any freer than it already is. This is not an invitation to start cranking 2 packs a day and let the person thingy smoke its way into an early grave, on the contrary. It's an invitation to notice the mind games, and hence, stop playing them.

I wonder what addictions or split mind stuff you've dealt with and how it went for you?


Looking back I can see split mind thinking starting at a very early age and going completely un-noticed until I heard Phil Beaumont talk about addictions. From that point on it no longer seemed logical to battle myself internally with regard to so called seeking desires. In my case this led to an increase in substance abuse and a total inability to function in society in a meaningful way, albeit I was suffering less, which is all that mattered to me.

My core issues revolved around trust. After having my heart broken a couple of times, I lost trust in not only love and humanity, but God. My desire for affection and compassion was substituted with a desire for inebriation. I wanted someone to understand me, but simultaneously wanted to put up boundaries to prevent anyone getting close to me. I didn't even understand myself. Not a fun mind state to be in, obviously.

With time the negative vibrations I'd been carrying surfaced in consciousness. The difference between pleasure and the relief from pain and uneasiness became almost non-existent. Rather than seek pleasure I would find myself waiting for relief, in an allowing mind set. I knew pleasure was good but at some point I noticed the relief from pain was better, and that what I was, was that very pain.

So, that's pretty much how things went. A lot has changed, some things haven't. Sharing my love more freely. Still a work in progress. Goals on the horizon. Things in motion. Life is better. Outlook better. Dreams making sense. Emotions coming and going. New family, baby on the way. Amazing wife. Lots of gratitude. Ability to trust. No fear of commitment. Confidence. Self acceptance. Forgiveness. New found willingness to participate in the grand illusion. Surrendered. Joy. Loss of attachment. Not living through the eyes of others, or much less so. Stuff like that.
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:06 am

better than a lie down on a couch in an office :D

Firstly Jason congrats on your new family and experience of the experiences :D

DiJ said: My point was, if you're doing anything, because you can't stop, then you're being controlled by it...that's not freedom. I don't want to be controlled by smoking, food or anything else...that's what was meant by binding vasanas. They agitate the mind needlessly.

It also sounds very much what was 'meant' by the dream you described - being punished for trying different escape routes and when you just stopped - you were free.
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby the key master » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:16 am

smiiley said,
Firstly Jason congrats on your new family and experience of the experiences :D


Thanks Jen.
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby dijmart » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:17 am

Key said-
It's an invitation to notice the mind games, and hence, stop playing them.


Duly noted.

Jen said-
It also sounds very much what was 'meant' by the dream you described - being punished for trying different escape routes and when you just stopped - you were free.


Sounds good to me!

Key said-
So, that's pretty much how things went. A lot has changed, some things haven't. Sharing my love more freely. Still a work in progress. Goals on the horizon. Things in motion. Life is better. Outlook better. Dreams making sense. Emotions coming and going. New family, baby on the way. Amazing wife. Lots of gratitude. Ability to trust. No fear of commitment. Confidence. Self acceptance. Forgiveness. New found willingness to participate in the grand illusion. Surrendered. Joy. Loss of attachment. Not living through the eyes of others, or much less so. Stuff like that.


Nice! Glad things have been looking up for you. You (awareness), of course! :D

Sorry I didn't comment more, but it's sleepy time.
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby the key master » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:09 am

Dij said,
Nice! Glad things have been looking up for you. You (awareness), of course! :D


Well, no, I mean, personally speaking things really have gotten better (alignment). Just not because of anything I've done.
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby Onceler » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:12 pm

Having kids was the best thing to get me out of my self absorption. Kids are little zen guys ruthlessly calling you back into the present. Enjoy!
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby the key master » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:35 pm

Onceler wrote:Having kids was the best thing to get me out of my self absorption. Kids are little zen guys ruthlessly calling you back into the present. Enjoy!


Thanks Oncey, nice to see you again.
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:59 am

Dij said: I've recalled only partial dreams maybe twice per year. Yeah, guess it sounds weird to others, but it became my norm. I thought I stopped dreaming and maybe I did? Dreams became non-existent to me and not part of my experience. So, the waking world is all I dealt with. However, as of about 8 days ago I'm having total recall of dreaming nightly...far out weird to me!


That would freak me out too Di. I also no longer experience dreams. I'm aware of early in relaxing mind wanderings, but of no more intensity than day dreaming. Just as you were relaying this though I had a dream the night before I read this thread!!! It led me to wonder if I too was becoming more 'normal' :wink: after reading this thread I wondered what the content of my dreams if I were to have them, might be.

I explained to my partner that I NEVER (not literally but you know what I mean) dream, unless it's precognitive - and this was so weird because it was all about an experience in the recognisable past. It centred on an horrific multiple vehicle crash on a highway north of here that my daughter & I rendered assistance to the injured and were calling for rescue helicopters because the bank up of traffic would not allow emergency vehicles through in time for some of the critically injured. In my precog dream experiences I become aware that I'm dreaming, while still in it, which is kind of funny if it's scary.

(one I'd experienced frequently over many years, I'd get to a certain point in it, see a particular aspect in it, recognise it and 'think' oh, it's just this dream again... - as I was physically raising myself up and screaming in horror that would wake anyone around me, while I'd lie back down calm as you like having realised I was 'just dreaming' - and they'd be a freaked out mess!!)

I also sometimes apparently really 'talk' in these situations - I became aware of hearing on the physical level me saying 'we need the choppers, we really need the choppers, this man is dying, please, we need the choppers now'.

On reflection, one of the men we attended to at that scene (the real one) was bleeding from his ear & not from an injury to his ear - a symptom of internal head injury. It was poignant at the time, helpless, doing the best we could in a horrific experience, pride in my girl for her calmness and compassion, she was only a teenager herself at that time. Cars were askew and many had crashed into each other or trees in a effort to avoid a utility that had become airborne and flown across the dividing gully and into three lanes of oncoming traffic on the other side of the highway. (NB - vehicles on cruise control can lose control and even do this if the tyres touch water or wet grass, as this one had veering slightly onto wet grass on the verge of the road).

At one point, for the two men my daughter & I were attending to we made contact with their families and let the men speak to them. I was aware telling the families that they were seriously hurt, but okay was relative to that moment only.

Anyway in this one the other night I also had the same senses - same sense of urgency, compassion, overwhelming f this is a mess... amid calmness and compassion.

So I get up, discuss it with my partner as 'weird' and wondering why I had the dream. It made me wonder if the man with the head injuries made it or not, we never found out, leaving them to the emergency services people when they finally arrived, without helicopter support.

Then read Di's post and wondered some more.

Then yesterday, at the same place on the highway... multiple vehicle crash, one dead, 10 critically injured and this time the rescue helicopters attended.

:cry:

guessing maybe I'm no more 'normal' than ever. It's been a long time for me since I've 'accepted' precog dreams too, so that's just as much 'weird' for me too.

What I wanted to ask Di, is how are you doing having recall of nightly dreams... it was a fascinating thought for me when you raised it.
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby the key master » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:31 am

On the dream where you looked in the mirror and were someone else, that sounds like an over cloak in the spirit world. This guy AJ who's actually down under talks about these things eloquently. I picked up a lot from this guy,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnCyXoPlVl4
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby dijmart » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:49 am

Hi jen,

I'm glad I'm not having precog dreams, cause then they come true! :shock:

What I wanted to ask Di, is how are you doing having recall of nightly dreams... it was a fascinating thought for me when you raised it.


Im still having nightly recall, it's weird, because as I said (and you understand) I've been dealing with "one" apparent reality for about 5 yrs and now, for some reason I'm dealing with two again. I literally have to think in the morning what's real and what was a dream. I find my self saying things like "wow, I was certain that really happened!"..but, no, was part of dream world.
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby dijmart » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:54 am

the key master wrote:On the dream where you looked in the mirror and were someone else, that sounds like an over cloak in the spirit world. This guy AJ who's actually down under talks about these things eloquently. I picked up a lot from this guy,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnCyXoPlVl4


Yeah, I looked it up and found multiple reasons for someone to see someone else when looking in a mirror. After awhile I just thought. Ohh, who cares and forgot all about it, lol. :lol:
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby Onceler » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:57 pm

I have also been having fairly vivid dreams every night for the last year after a long dream dry spell. I have chalked this up to Yerba mate consumption......some folks drink it to enhance dream states and lucid dreams. Intent in the waking world seems to influence the dream world. Over the thanksgiving holiday, members of my family were talking about that 'college' nightmare wherein you realize you haven't been going to a crucial class all semester or you didn't even know about a class you signed up for, etc. That night I had the college nightmare.....found I had a class I had never attended and panicked. I woke up believing I had failed grad school and my license would be taken away.

Jen, do your precog dreams involve death in the physical reality? Perhaps on some level you are helping people transition to death because of your experience with dying. The man you helped in the actual accident may have died and that was your connection to helping others transition in the later instance. The dreams may be preparation, or a briefing on impending work to be done.....
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Re: Nature of dreams

Postby the key master » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:27 pm

dijmart wrote:
the key master wrote:On the dream where you looked in the mirror and were someone else, that sounds like an over cloak in the spirit world. This guy AJ who's actually down under talks about these things eloquently. I picked up a lot from this guy,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnCyXoPlVl4


Yeah, I looked it up and found multiple reasons for someone to see someone else when looking in a mirror. After awhile I just thought. Ohh, who cares and forgot all about it, lol. :lol:


Yea I hear ya. But if there was a spirit over cloaking you, good chance that spirit wouldn't want you being conscious that he or she is there. That would be the end of the overcloak. When you feel a craving to smoke, does it ever feel like it's a spirit with you telling you to smoke, and not actually 'you' in control?
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