Why is there so much resistance to presence?

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Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby wander » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:12 pm

I was first introduced to Eckhart Tolle about 8 years ago (WOW!!). However I don't think I would ever be "practicing" for more than a few months at a time. Such as reading, meditating or consciously taking short moments of awareness. I think a lot of times I would just start to end up getting happy and then loosing myself in those pleasurable thoughts and emotions and drop the awareness and then pick things back up when depression started kicking back in. Of course awareness has kind of always been in the back of my mind even when lost in those good experiences.

But lately things have kind of seemed worse than they have ever been. I *know* I should get back into awareness, but instead I seem to try to keep my mind so lost in TV or the Internet. Actually it probably is getting close to a psychological addiction if it is not already :/ But as I am typing this I take moments to look out the window, take a breath and I definitely do notice a slight peacefulness enter (mostly feel this "sensation" in the top of my head). It seems so strange that there is so much resistance to that. But I guess I do know why that is: the mind just really wants to hold onto its idea of itself huh?

I assume this is a common experience right? I guess it is mostly about finding the strength, willpower or motivation etc, to break through that resistance. I know from my past experience that its really just about pushing past that resistance and start reading, writing, listening to kirtans (which I have LOVED!!). It just seems almost impossible at the moment!

So I would REALLY appreciate hearing about some of your experiences with this!!
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby lmp » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:26 pm

It's a long way to walk, there is resistance in the way we think, the way we feel, the way we perceive, the way we act, the way we relate. It's not just the mind/thought. I don't mean to discourage you.

At times it is interesting, at times frightening, difficult, hard to understand, deep, lonely, confusing, exciting.

When things seem worse than they've ever been, I can relate to that, it can be so challenging.

"Sorrow prepares you for joy. It violently sweeps everything out of your house, so that new joy can find space to enter. It shakes the yellow leaves from the bough of your heart, so that fresh, green leaves can grow in their place. It pulls up the rotten roots, so that new roots hidden beneath have room to grow. Whatever sorrow shakes from your heart, far better things will take their place." ~ Rumi

Do you like nature? I think watching nature could replace some of the TV watching, if you are looking out the window, why not actually go outside too. Perhaps you do.
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby the key master » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:07 pm

wander wrote:I was first introduced to Eckhart Tolle about 8 years ago (WOW!!). However I don't think I would ever be "practicing" for more than a few months at a time. Such as reading, meditating or consciously taking short moments of awareness. I think a lot of times I would just start to end up getting happy and then loosing myself in those pleasurable thoughts and emotions and drop the awareness and then pick things back up when depression started kicking back in. Of course awareness has kind of always been in the back of my mind even when lost in those good experiences.

But lately things have kind of seemed worse than they have ever been. I *know* I should get back into awareness, but instead I seem to try to keep my mind so lost in TV or the Internet. Actually it probably is getting close to a psychological addiction if it is not already :/ But as I am typing this I take moments to look out the window, take a breath and I definitely do notice a slight peacefulness enter (mostly feel this "sensation" in the top of my head). It seems so strange that there is so much resistance to that. But I guess I do know why that is: the mind just really wants to hold onto its idea of itself huh?



Particularly the idea of getting back into awareness and being able to take a lunch break somewhere else. Thoughts arise and fall spontaneously and will only pick up momentum when they are engaged. From within that engagement the idea arises to get off of the roller coaster, and that is the mind split against itself. The question of how to be more present is not seeking to address that split but reinforce it.

I assume this is a common experience right? I guess it is mostly about finding the strength, willpower or motivation etc, to break through that resistance. I know from my past experience that its really just about pushing past that resistance and start reading, writing, listening to kirtans (which I have LOVED!!). It just seems almost impossible at the moment!

So I would REALLY appreciate hearing about some of your experiences with this!!


If you're saying you have resistance to the resistance to your minds thought processes, this is to be expected. There isn't one mind initiating the thinking process that isn't the same one trying to stop it. Noticing this dynamic, in itself, does not heal the split mind, but it can initiate a desire to understand oneself. How else can the same mind split against itself come back together?
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby the key master » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:12 pm

lmp wrote:It's a long way to walk, there is resistance in the way we think, the way we feel, the way we perceive, the way we act, the way we relate. It's not just the mind/thought. I don't mean to discourage you.

At times it is interesting, at times frightening, difficult, hard to understand, deep, lonely, confusing, exciting.

When things seem worse than they've ever been, I can relate to that, it can be so challenging.

"Sorrow prepares you for joy. It violently sweeps everything out of your house, so that new joy can find space to enter. It shakes the yellow leaves from the bough of your heart, so that fresh, green leaves can grow in their place. It pulls up the rotten roots, so that new roots hidden beneath have room to grow. Whatever sorrow shakes from your heart, far better things will take their place." ~ Rumi

Do you like nature? I think watching nature could replace some of the TV watching, if you are looking out the window, why not actually go outside too. Perhaps you do.


Thanks for the Rumi quote Imp. I started taking hot baths to boil up some of that energy. Although I hear Archimedes would actually take cold showers to stay afloat. :shock:
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby the key master » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:20 pm

Oh and I just wanted to mention that healing the split mind translates into being more present. So the answer to the OP is that there is so much resistance to presence because the mind is segmented against itself. That's not really resistance to presence but to internal conflict, which is not the same as wanting a car but not having one. The absence of that internal conflict leads to more presence, which ironically can be experienced as the absence of identification with the self that wants to be more present.
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby CaiHong » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:22 am

Hi Wander,

I strongly identify with your post. What ET says has so much truth that I feel and understand on the level of the mind and at times when I do go into it I have a fleeting, something, a reduction in thinking, a bit more intense than a good cup of coffee.
On Monday I took a 3 hour bus ride to Hong Kong across the border from China, I often take this journey, I listened to ET all the way and "enjoyed " it so much, whether I am in a state of presence when I am listening to him, I'm not sure but it has a very positive effect on me, the proof of this is a greater deal of tolerance and patience at the border crossing, so much so that I thought why are people being so nice to me. Even on the way back home on the bus with canto pop full blast I could distance myself accept it and it times it was off the radar.

I have upped the time listening to ET and even when I am doing my aerobic exercise, whether this is good practice or not, I find I want to saturate my mind with his teachings rather than my own useless and somewhat debilitating thoughts.

For the last few weeks I have been feeling discontented and restless with everything my job included and looking for an escape a change but I managed to convince myself that is not the answer, overall my living and working circumstances are very good and this restlessness needs to be addressed through ETs suggestions and getting in touch with my presence.

Throughout the day I ask myself what am I feeling now, or look at arising emotions as they start to take over. Instead of getting irritated by the young cats playing with me as I go about my household chores, I engage with them, watch them. I have become more aware of how little I am present and how much I am in my mind. How I look towards the next thing and not what is at hand.
I wonder why I have so much resistance to presence.
Thanks for posting, there is actually no one that I can share these thoughts with apart from people on this forum.

CaiHong
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby the key master » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:57 am

CaiHong wrote:Hi Wander,

I strongly identify with your post. What ET says has so much truth that I feel and understand on the level of the mind and at times when I do go into it I have a fleeting, something, a reduction in thinking, a bit more intense than a good cup of coffee.
On Monday I took a 3 hour bus ride to Hong Kong across the border from China, I often take this journey, I listened to ET all the way and "enjoyed " it so much, whether I am in a state of presence when I am listening to him, I'm not sure but it has a very positive effect on me, the proof of this is a greater deal of tolerance and patience at the border crossing, so much so that I thought why are people being so nice to me. Even on the way back home on the bus with canto pop full blast I could distance myself accept it and it times it was off the radar.

I have upped the time listening to ET and even when I am doing my aerobic exercise, whether this is good practice or not, I find I want to saturate my mind with his teachings rather than my own useless and somewhat debilitating thoughts.

For the last few weeks I have been feeling discontented and restless with everything my job included and looking for an escape a change but I managed to convince myself that is not the answer, overall my living and working circumstances are very good and this restlessness needs to be addressed through ETs suggestions and getting in touch with my presence.

Throughout the day I ask myself what am I feeling now, or look at arising emotions as they start to take over. Instead of getting irritated by the young cats playing with me as I go about my household chores, I engage with them, watch them. I have become more aware of how little I am present and how much I am in my mind. How I look towards the next thing and not what is at hand.
I wonder why I have so much resistance to presence.
Thanks for posting, there is actually no one that I can share these thoughts with apart from people on this forum.

CaiHong


It doesn't seem like you have resistance to presence. It seems like you have resistance to this -->

For the last few weeks I have been feeling discontented and restless with everything my job included and looking for an escape


Wondering why you might be resistant to presence is a mystery, because how can anyone take presence away from you? Resisting feeling discontented or restless is understandable. Folks don't like feeling discontented and restless, so they resist that feeling.
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby phantombaz » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:01 pm

CaiHong wrote:Hi Wander,

I strongly identify with your post. What ET says has so much truth that I feel and understand on the level of the mind and at times when I do go into it I have a fleeting, something, a reduction in thinking, a bit more intense than a good cup of coffee.
On Monday I took a 3 hour bus ride to Hong Kong across the border from China, I often take this journey, I listened to ET all the way and "enjoyed " it so much, whether I am in a state of presence when I am listening to him, I'm not sure but it has a very positive effect on me, the proof of this is a greater deal of tolerance and patience at the border crossing, so much so that I thought why are people being so nice to me. Even on the way back home on the bus with canto pop full blast I could distance myself accept it and it times it was off the radar.

I have upped the time listening to ET and even when I am doing my aerobic exercise, whether this is good practice or not, I find I want to saturate my mind with his teachings rather than my own useless and somewhat debilitating thoughts.

For the last few weeks I have been feeling discontented and restless with everything my job included and looking for an escape a change but I managed to convince myself that is not the answer, overall my living and working circumstances are very good and this restlessness needs to be addressed through ETs suggestions and getting in touch with my presence.

Throughout the day I ask myself what am I feeling now, or look at arising emotions as they start to take over. Instead of getting irritated by the young cats playing with me as I go about my household chores, I engage with them, watch them. I have become more aware of how little I am present and how much I am in my mind. How I look towards the next thing and not what is at hand.
I wonder why I have so much resistance to presence.
Thanks for posting, there is actually no one that I can share these thoughts with apart from people on this forum.

CaiHong


Dont become so dependent on ET, yes his teaching are great ( i have a new earth on phone and a book), yet if the only times you feel present or at peace is when you're listening/reading etc.. to him, then you have developed an addiction, and as you know with an addiction there are up and downs. One of the greatest songs written has one of the most over looked messages, let it be. This is simplest truth.
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby CaiHong » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:17 am

Thanks Phantom for your input,

The thing with ET, is he says it better than anyone else I have come across. I am no stranger to addiction and am in a program that I greatly value along with ET.
ET has said that he would prefer you to follow his suggestions than to read his books and I get that, for me it's getting outside of my head and being in the moment, that simple. Yesterday as I went about my work and chores I noticed a slight elevation on mood throughout the day as I endevoured to remain present. I work with children and I notice I am becoming less reliant on their academic outcomes and more on what is going on with them.
Let it Be will be my theme song for today.
At times I use the serenity prayer as my mantra, the first line, "to accept the things I cannot change", especially when I am navigating myway through the traffic on my bike, such a gambit of emotions it brings to the fore, fear, resentment, outrage.
I think of the story ET writes about, the 2 ducks on the pond helps me to put things into perspective.

Have a good weekend

CaiHong
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby Manyana » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:01 am

CaiHong wrote:
The thing with ET, is he says it better than anyone else I have come across.


Hi CaiHong, have you seen this meditation?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DotpKuc36CM
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby the key master » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:08 am

CaiHong wrote:Thanks Phantom for your input,

The thing with ET, is he says it better than anyone else I have come across. I am no stranger to addiction and am in a program that I greatly value along with ET.
ET has said that he would prefer you to follow his suggestions than to read his books and I get that, for me it's getting outside of my head and being in the moment, that simple. Yesterday as I went about my work and chores I noticed a slight elevation on mood throughout the day as I endevoured to remain present.


So it wasn't your presence endeavor you were noticing but the absence of the endeavor, right? Without the endeavor to be present, you can notice what you are cannot be absent. How could you notice anything otherwise?

I understand when folks encounter frustration. An elevation in mood can be experienced as less resistance to what is. But then folks get attached to the better mood, which leads to resistance and the absence of the better mood. If you want to get outside your head, AND, you want to maintain a personal progression from good to better, or bad to good, you actually want two different things, unless things are so bad you see that ending the mind game is better than playing it. What I mean is, endeavoring to be more present is jumping back in the head and imagining you have to get out of it or feel better again. Seeing this game can only take place from outside the head. You don't notice head games from within the games, but from outside the boundaries of the games.

I work with children and I notice I am becoming less reliant on their academic outcomes and more on what is going on with them.
Let it Be will be my theme song for today.
At times I use the serenity prayer as my mantra, the first line, "to accept the things I cannot change", especially when I am navigating myway through the traffic on my bike, such a gambit of emotions it brings to the fore, fear, resentment, outrage.
I think of the story ET writes about, the 2 ducks on the pond helps me to put things into perspective.

Have a good weekend

CaiHong


Awesome. I work with kids too. They really are great teachers. That's cool you are able to give attention to what's going on with them, and not focus too much on grades. It's also cool when you can bring their attention to what's going on in the world. I always wanted to go to China.

Enjoy your weekend also.
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby CaiHong » Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:40 am

Thanks Manyana for the link,

i will check it out when I have finished work.

Thanks key master, I do understand the subtleties intellectually. But it is something I will pay more attention to and experiment with. The way I experience it is when I am enjoying what I am doing there is less debilitating thinking happening which leads to a more effective happier person. But I find if I have something to do that I don't really want to do that I start getting worked up about it hours or days before. I acknowledge it and say to myself what are you doing now and bring myself back to the present.

I have been living and working in China for over 14 years. China is easy really, to live and work here,that's my experience anyway others may not agree. There are holiday programs held here if you want to come and teach and then stay and look around or longer contracts. If you need any further help or information just PM me.

Caihong
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby the key master » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:34 pm

CaiHong wrote:Thanks Manyana for the link,

i will check it out when I have finished work.

Thanks key master, I do understand the subtleties intellectually. But it is something I will pay more attention to and experiment with. The way I experience it is when I am enjoying what I am doing there is less debilitating thinking happening which leads to a more effective happier person.


And the more effective happier person, when identified with, leads one to attend the idea that thinking less causes happiness, which is when the split mind game starts. Rather than talk about the more effective happier person, you might notice the absence of that person during those moments of joy and conscious connection. The re-emergence of that person as more effective and happier leads to the desire to stay effective and happy, which are conditions of your mind. When the conditions around you change, as they always do, wanting the condition of mind to stay the same is not logical.

I have been living and working in China for over 14 years. China is easy really, to live and work here,that's my experience anyway others may not agree. There are holiday programs held here if you want to come and teach and then stay and look around or longer contracts. If you need any further help or information just PM me.

Caihong


Thanks Caihong. A school in Honduras scooped me up and I'm shuffling off later this week, but I appreciate the invitations and reciprocate. I have a few connections in Latin America so if you're looking for a change of scenery I can put you directly in contact with at least one school.

Kind regards
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby CaiHong » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:11 am

Thanks Keymaster,
Enjoy your time in Honduras, perhaps if I was younger I might investigate your offer.
Cheers
CaiHong
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Re: Why is there so much resistance to presence?

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:09 am

Keymaster (Jason) are you originally from the NY area? I ask because I saw you mention 1010 wins in another thread which is a local NY AM radio station. Was just curious.
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