What do we want?

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What do we want?

Postby Admiral Akmir » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:18 pm

There seems to an inner voice that tells me what I should or shouldn't be doing. It's not an actual voice, but a pulling in one direction or the other. If I join in on gossip, or speak poorly of another person, I feel a pulling against that, like something's trying to stop me. If I pay attention to that feeling, it seems to guide me in the right direction. It's never led me astray, it doesn't really seem to be anything, it's a very simple sort of energy that pushes or pulls one way or another.

Acts of kindness can have hidden agendas; sometimes I'm nice because it's socially acceptable; charity for an event, giving birthday presents, spending time with someone because I feel obligated to, not because I want to... But sometimes something will just pop up, a solution, or an idea, and it just seems absolutely right. A thing like this will bring a smile to my face and make me feel good all the way through, and it's not pretend.

I don't know what this thing is, or if it's even real, but I like it and I wish I could hear it more often. There are certain behaviors and things I do in life that I'm conflicted about, it's like I want it and don't want it at the same time. In these situations, no one else can really tell you what to do... I have to decide for myself, only I can really know what is right for my personal life, but I'm unable to see clearly. I chose to quit drinking a long time ago, but went back to it, and at times I feel like I really should quit again. I don't drink that much, I barely drink at all compared to some people, but I feel this weight over me, like I shouldn't anyways, it's just not a good fit for me. It seems like this is more of a guilt thing, a result of conditioning from the past. I wish I could feel the inner energy, pushing or pulling one direction or the other, but my internal conflict over this issue is too strong and clouds over.

Has anyone else felt the pure, unadulterated force within, guiding them towards, or away from things? Have you ever been confused about whether or not it can be trusted, or if it's even real?
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Re: What do we want?

Postby tod » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:29 pm

Hi AA,

Admiral Akmir wrote:There seems to an inner voice that tells me what I should or shouldn't be doing. It's not an actual voice, but a pulling in one direction or the other. If I join in on gossip, or speak poorly of another person, I feel a pulling against that, like something's trying to stop me. If I pay attention to that feeling, it seems to guide me in the right direction. It's never led me astray, it doesn't really seem to be anything, it's a very simple sort of energy that pushes or pulls one way or another.


You could call it a guide to your true self.

Acts of kindness can have hidden agendas; sometimes I'm nice because it's socially acceptable; charity for an event, giving birthday presents, spending time with someone because I feel obligated to, not because I want to... But sometimes something will just pop up, a solution, or an idea, and it just seems absolutely right. A thing like this will bring a smile to my face and make me feel good all the way through, and it's not pretend.


This illustrates the difference between living in the mind and being still.

I don't know what this thing is, or if it's even real, but I like it and I wish I could hear it more often. There are certain behaviors and things I do in life that I'm conflicted about, it's like I want it and don't want it at the same time. In these situations, no one else can really tell you what to do... I have to decide for myself, only I can really know what is right for my personal life, but I'm unable to see clearly. I chose to quit drinking a long time ago, but went back to it, and at times I feel like I really should quit again. I don't drink that much, I barely drink at all compared to some people, but I feel this weight over me, like I shouldn't anyways, it's just not a good fit for me. It seems like this is more of a guilt thing, a result of conditioning from the past. I wish I could feel the inner energy, pushing or pulling one direction or the other, but my internal conflict over this issue is too strong and clouds over.


It is the overactive mind that thinks it knows and is in charge that is the clouding. You do not "have to decide for myself." Decisions are of the mind and are based on incomplete knowledge. Be quiet/still (ie, the mind being quiet/still) and the real knowledge will operate (as you have evidenced). The clearer the mind, the clearer the 'direction'.

With best wishes,
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Re: What do we want?

Postby the key master » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:56 am

Admiral Akmir wrote:There seems to an inner voice that tells me what I should or shouldn't be doing. It's not an actual voice, but a pulling in one direction or the other. If I join in on gossip, or speak poorly of another person, I feel a pulling against that, like something's trying to stop me. If I pay attention to that feeling, it seems to guide me in the right direction. It's never led me astray, it doesn't really seem to be anything, it's a very simple sort of energy that pushes or pulls one way or another.

Acts of kindness can have hidden agendas; sometimes I'm nice because it's socially acceptable; charity for an event, giving birthday presents, spending time with someone because I feel obligated to, not because I want to... But sometimes something will just pop up, a solution, or an idea, and it just seems absolutely right. A thing like this will bring a smile to my face and make me feel good all the way through, and it's not pretend.

I don't know what this thing is, or if it's even real, but I like it and I wish I could hear it more often. There are certain behaviors and things I do in life that I'm conflicted about, it's like I want it and don't want it at the same time. In these situations, no one else can really tell you what to do... I have to decide for myself, only I can really know what is right for my personal life, but I'm unable to see clearly. I chose to quit drinking a long time ago, but went back to it, and at times I feel like I really should quit again. I don't drink that much, I barely drink at all compared to some people, but I feel this weight over me, like I shouldn't anyways, it's just not a good fit for me. It seems like this is more of a guilt thing, a result of conditioning from the past. I wish I could feel the inner energy, pushing or pulling one direction or the other, but my internal conflict over this issue is too strong and clouds over.

Has anyone else felt the pure, unadulterated force within, guiding them towards, or away from things? Have you ever been confused about whether or not it can be trusted, or if it's even real?


Yes, and it's the same force which attracts things to you, which is why I sometimes ramble about law of attraction and how the split mind plays into all that. My 12 year olds asked me about drinking the other day, and I can certainly vibe with some of your split mind issues around consumption. Alcohol really is poison, which is why they inject it with sugar and all sorts of other crap to get folks to drink it. At the same time, it really does make you feel inebriated and cause lack of inhibition, which might give you some new moves on the dance floor, but it isn't going to make you a better driver (unless it does of course).

I just got word from my parents. They were visiting my cousin in the hospital. He's being treated for liver failure, and, from what I understand, it's not a good situation. This particular cousin isn't just a drinker, but a full blown alcoholic, hasn't worked in years, on disability for extreme social anxiety disorder, and now he's on his way out.

As I get older I see that I can't do what I used to do. Going to work or being around kids with a hangover is something I can't do anymore. I don't even like drinking coffee if I have to engage socially with people. Diet soda and aspertane or whatever that crap is can activate liver anguish from the amount of abuse I've done to my body from alcohol. If I drink 3 beers my liver feels it the next day. IPA beer is just rancid for the body. I'm probably going to start juicing and drinking smoothies and stuff at some point soon. Seeing my cousin in the hospital is a sure wake up call. But no one on this planet is going to take away my right to drink a Guinness with the buds to catch up on time. Unless I get locked up of course :lol:

Anyway, yea sometimes I feel the force telling me to do more of one thing and less of another. Right now it's telling me to drink more water haha.
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Re: What do we want?

Postby Admiral Akmir » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:59 am

It's interesting, the guiding energy does not always point to the easy path. I used to drink at social events, because it made it easier to talk to people. Sometimes I would keep drinking, and I'd feel that pull, to stop, or to never start in the first place. But the fear and anxiety were powerful enough to win over.

During gossip at work it's the same. The desire to fit in and make fun of someone to be a part of the group is strong, and it feel uncomfortable to sit in silence.

Most of the time it seems the direction the true self points to is difficult and challenging for one reason or the other. It goes against social norms, culture, and what the rest of the group is doing. Maybe it's because most people are deeply unconscious, and so it is simply natural for the true self to move in the opposite direction of things like materialism, self destruction and poison ( gossip )
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Re: What do we want?

Postby the key master » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:46 am

Admiral Akmir wrote:It's interesting, the guiding energy does not always point to the easy path. I used to drink at social events, because it made it easier to talk to people. Sometimes I would keep drinking, and I'd feel that pull, to stop, or to never start in the first place. But the fear and anxiety were powerful enough to win over.

During gossip at work it's the same. The desire to fit in and make fun of someone to be a part of the group is strong, and it feel uncomfortable to sit in silence.

Most of the time it seems the direction the true self points to is difficult and challenging for one reason or the other. It goes against social norms, culture, and what the rest of the group is doing. Maybe it's because most people are deeply unconscious, and so it is simply natural for the true self to move in the opposite direction of things like materialism, self destruction and poison ( gossip )


Well, I didn't mean to imply that there's actually a true self pointing another self down certain paths, and that you need to become that true self, but that field of vision increases with greater consciousness, thus opening the path of least resistance, which has a liberating feel to it. That greater consciousness, is not of course, that feeling. Nevertheless, messages, guidance, or pointers from a higher intelligence, sometimes experienced as synchronicity, are to be expected during the expansion of consciousness beyond the limitations of the thinking mind. You really are not your mind.
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Re: What do we want?

Postby Mystic » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:39 am

Admiral Akmir wrote:There seems to an inner voice that tells me what I should or shouldn't be doing. It's not an actual voice, but a pulling in one direction or the other.


Very interesting Admiral Akmir. I also am aware of the Voice and I call it the Mind's Eye that watches the mind's I. :D We seem to have an ability to make a conscious choice for which voice to listen to when watching our thought impulse stream and being present. To observe without condoning and without condemning.
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Re: What do we want?

Postby the key master » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:29 pm

Mystic wrote:
Admiral Akmir wrote:There seems to an inner voice that tells me what I should or shouldn't be doing. It's not an actual voice, but a pulling in one direction or the other.


Very interesting Admiral Akmir. I also am aware of the Voice and I call it the Mind's Eye that watches the mind's I. :D We seem to have an ability to make a conscious choice for which voice to listen to when watching our thought impulse stream and being present. To observe without condoning and without condemning.


One way in which the mind splits off from itself is as an observer of itself. When this observer mind starts telling the other mind what to think and not think, it's the same mind coming through the back door. Neither voice is you, and neither is God's representative telling you what to do.

Now, you mention observe without condoning or condemning, which sounds like a call to more conscious thinking, and that's cool. If it's one Voice overthrowing the control of another voice from the person thingy, it's a split mind game that isn't conscious.
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Re: What do we want?

Postby Mystic » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:07 am

Hello keymaster. :)

I think we are in agreement that the little I, the self that identifies with a body will be integrated into the whole.
Nisigardatta Maharaj said that the only thing we can be certain of is that we are.
The I am is certain, the I am this is not.

I am is certain.

I am certain, is not.

Be still and know I am
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Re: What do we want?

Postby ZenCowgirl » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:38 am

We want peace.
We also tend to seek confirmation that we are on the right path - but we cannot get it, so it is wise to recognize that want and see that you confirm yourself.
Peace is in us already and we know it when we see it. We know the right thing if we take the time to see it and heed what we see. Often, we ignore it.

We also want a mission, a purpose, a calling.
We also tend to want outside confirmation that we got our purpose right - but we cannot get that.
Dive in and create. Creation begets creation.

We also want expansion. We want more and more of the good so as to make sure we are alive, that we "got" what's coming to us.
Expansion comes - and comes - and comes - if we drop the need for external confirmation and go in balance on the teeter totter with trust in the other seat.

We also want permanence. We want a diploma. A prize. But now we've come full circle. Those symbols are external confirmation.
There is no medal, for if you seek it from someone, the someone will not be able to pin it on you.

There is only movement (action), and consciousness of movement in existence. Indeed, there is only you, looking at you. No one else is really looking.
We are looking, and we want to find - but what we find is ourselves, looking.
Consider that that is consciousness looking at awareness. We want to stay there, in that pool. So? Stay there. It might take some practice, practice on a bed of trust.

So look how complicated we are. All mixed up when we try to articulate it. Clear only in silence. We want:
Peace. A mission to fulfill. Expansion. A new level. Some peace, some movement. Some linear, some now. All these collapse (expand?) as consciousness of awareness.
Enjoy it. Accept it. It's life; it's us; it's vast; it changes.

Water is good.
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Re: What do we want?

Postby the key master » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:29 am

Mystic wrote:Hello keymaster. :)

I think we are in agreement that the little I, the self that identifies with a body will be integrated into the whole.
Nisigardatta Maharaj said that the only thing we can be certain of is that we are.
The I am is certain, the I am this is not.

I am is certain.

I am certain, is not.

Be still and know I am


Hi Mystic. I missed this one.

Well, consciousness identifies with conditioned consciousness appearing as an apparent person. The apparent person is apparent to something which is not a person, and what that is, IS the self that identifies with the body. Transcendence is not an integration, but an unraveling of the self that would yearn for integration. OTOH, integrating what isn't conscious locally can seem like an integration. I'm just saying it isn't actually an integration.
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Re: What do we want?

Postby the key master » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:44 am

ZenCowgirl wrote:
There is only movement (action), and consciousness of movement in existence. Indeed, there is only you, looking at you.


Stillness is the non appearing nothingness which allows you to register movement. The apparent movement takes the form of our ideas. This moment in reference to that moment. Consciousness of those ideas does not mean the movement is in existence. It means you can imagine movement exists. I would call that imagination and not some actual movement in existence.

As far as there being only you looking at you: it sounds like you are saying there is only consciousness and the world appearing in consciousness, or only a mind and something observing the mind, or something which can somehow be distinguished from something else. That distinction is a creation of your mind. The non thang that notices the creations of your mind is not a creation of your mind. I would say, there is only That.

No one else is really looking.
We are looking, and we want to find - but what we find is ourselves, looking.
Consider that that is consciousness looking at awareness.


It sounds like the mind is pretending to be the consciousness which is noticing itself. I don't know what you mean about consciousness looking at awareness. Awareness is aware. How can you be conscious of something which is not an appearing in consciousness?

We want to stay there, in that pool. So? Stay there. It might take some practice, practice on a bed of trust.

So look how complicated we are. All mixed up when we try to articulate it. Clear only in silence.


I don't see complications. I see a mind lost in its own bifurcations imagining it can only be clear when not in the process of thinking. That isn't clarity, but confusion.
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Re: What do we want?

Postby ZenCowgirl » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:27 pm

Keymaster you say
It sounds like the mind is pretending to be the consciousness which is noticing itself. I don't know what you mean about consciousness looking at awareness. Awareness is aware. How can you be conscious of something which is not an appearing in consciousness?


I had just watched an interview on conscious.tv with Jedda Mali whom I had never heard of before, but I found her to be full of grace. She distinguished between awareness and consciousness this way and I simply ran with it, knowing I'd be running into a sea of semantic controversy: Awareness, according to her, is existence. It simply is. Consciousness is part of paying attention. It is what we (can) do. When we do, we can become conscious of awareness (existence). Consciousness can (and does) grow. Awareness is "fixed."

Disagreements are often semantic. It is as if we use words to lead us to something when in actuality it is something that leads us to words. In semantic terms, it is not the references which are compelling but, rather, the referents. Referents are that to which words point.

In a nutshell what I was wanting to say to AA's banner question "What do we want?" is: we want many things. Some for now, some for later, some leading to peace, some leading to action, some from ourselves, some from others, and yes, it can be confusing. But no matter what it is, we can "get" it if we point attention (consciousness) inward to the presence (awareness). Then the breakdown, the transmorgification, the melting, the magic carpet, the smile begins. The availability of the smile is eternal. Our attention to it varies.
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Re: What do we want?

Postby the key master » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:45 pm

ZenCowgirl wrote:Keymaster you say
It sounds like the mind is pretending to be the consciousness which is noticing itself. I don't know what you mean about consciousness looking at awareness. Awareness is aware. How can you be conscious of something which is not an appearing in consciousness?


I had just watched an interview on conscious.tv with Jedda Mali whom I had never heard of before, but I found her to be full of grace. She distinguished between awareness and consciousness this way and I simply ran with it, knowing I'd be running into a sea of semantic controversy: Awareness, according to her, is existence. It simply is. Consciousness is part of paying attention. It is what we (can) do. When we do, we can become conscious of awareness (existence). Consciousness can (and does) grow. Awareness is "fixed."



I'm not really into semantics, and sometimes I use consciousness and awareness to point to the same thing. Anyway, if awareness is existence, and simply is, and you are awareness, you seem to be saying consciousness is something awareness does, and it's something 'we' can do. So are 'we' awareness, or is awareness existence? Is awareness aware of a person or is a person aware of awareness? I suggest the semantic controversy originates with Jedda's faulty logic, and not any desire on my part to play word games. Although she exhibits a perfect example of a split mind, which we can talk about.
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Re: What do we want?

Postby ZenCowgirl » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:47 am

Awareness simply is. It does not "do" anything. Part of consciousness (in her terminology), however, is "paying attention." We all know we can pay attention to this or to that--although many would chatter and disagree as to whether we have a choice in what we attend to. We can (or can not) pay attention to awareness, i.e., be conscious of awareness. Often we ignore awareness and get carried away on pettier thoughts about yesterday and tomorrow. Consciousness (paying attention) varies. Awareness simply "is."

But now I am going to turn back to AA's originating post, since her question started all this and I think I have strayed.

AA: yes we all know that inner voice. Life is so much simpler when it is loud and clear. But often it is not - social expectations mix in. The social psychologist George Herbert Mead called this our "I" and our "me" - with the "I" being the inner direction and the "me" (the object) being the socialized, well-behaved one. A person has both, from beginning of life to end.

You say:

I don't know what this thing is, or if it's even real, but I like it and I wish I could hear it more often. There are certain behaviors and things I do in life that I'm conflicted about, it's like I want it and don't want it at the same time. In these situations, no one else can really tell you what to do... I have to decide for myself, only I can really know what is right for my personal life, but I'm unable to see clearly.


I WISH I COULD HEAR IT MORE OFTEN. Yes, we do wish that. Then we would drop the inner conflict. Our inner voice, so loud and clear, would play the role of the officiate, almost like an external verification station. Not sure life offers that.

Right this moment, someone wants me to go out to dinner, and I really do not want to go. Which one will win? My "me" - because this friend deserves me to be nice to her - or my "I" because I feel like staying right here and indulging my private matters. We shall see. When I am really in a struggle between my I and my me sometimes I take down my Rune Stones. Divination is quite a thing - operating in the vibrational plane, opening us to wider, gentler forces. Opening our eyes, minds, and hearts.

To the Runes!
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Re: What do we want?

Postby Mystic » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:31 am

the key master wrote:Hi Mystic. I missed this one.

Well, consciousness identifies with conditioned consciousness appearing as an apparent person. The apparent person is apparent to something which is not a person, and what that is, IS the self that identifies with the body. Transcendence is not an integration, but an unraveling of the self that would yearn for integration. OTOH, integrating what isn't conscious locally can seem like an integration. I'm just saying it isn't actually an integration.


Your true Self is your whole Self. The unraveling of the little self is an integration into the whole. The deepest fear is the fear of the ego being absorbed into the pure light of oneness and the ego is afraid of becoming nothingness. I like this quote from the gospel of Thomas:

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html


(4) Jesus said, "The man old in days will not hesitate to ask a small child seven days old about the place of life, and he will live. For many who are first will become last, and they will become one and the same."


The man old in days is the ego who thinks it is first - shall become humble and become last ...and the newly born(awakened) Christ mind of 7 days old which is last, shall become first and they shall be one and the same.
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