9/11

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9/11

Postby rachMiel » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:48 pm

Is the past real?
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Re: 9/11

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:13 pm

Only as real as we believe it to be. Yet, with the consideration that there are infinite realities happening moment to moment to moment all simultaneously, 9/11 is merely one possibility that is existing simultaneously right NOW. Ultimately, it matters not, unless you believe it does.

The way I see it, we are all creating our own realities. Reality is a co-creation of sorts, but yet it's also not. Meaning, we are each vibrationally creating our own versions of reality through our own belief systems. I will save this convo for a potential deeper context for another day. But,I'll say this quickly....... reality in my opinion is not anywhere what we believe it to be. There is no external reality objectively speaking. The notion that history repeats itself and that we must pay attention to history is a mis-understanding based on the premise that there is an objective world separate from us. If history teaches us anything, it's that where we direct our attention based on our deepest core beliefs is what will manifest as reality and later be perceived as "past/future". It's merely a mirror of our own belief systems. Therefore.....is the past real? Entirely up to us individually.

What are your thoughts Rach?
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:30 pm

In general, I'm very much in agreement with your take, E2B.

9/11 only exists as as a kind of pointer manifested in thought, memory, conversation, writing, video and audio recordings, physical artifacts, etc.

Did it ever really exist, really happen? Yes and no.

Yes a set of causally related events occurred on 9/11/2001. (Conventional truth.)

No these events did not constitute the mega-event we think of as 9/11. (Ultimate truth.) In fact, ultimate truth would argue that no events actually occurred, that nothing has, is, or ever will happen. But that too is a topic best left to another hefty discussion! ;-)

Does any of this resonate?
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Re: 9/11

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:12 am

Yeah, I would agree, although I will lean a little bit more vibrational.

At this point, 9/11 is merely just a thought/memory and nothing more. The premise being that as I see it, there is a co-creative factor in reality to the extent that we agree upon......what is possible. And therefore, if there is potential or possibility for something to happen, it CAN happen and in the case of 9/11.....it did happen.....for some people in one particular reality. But, it did not happen for others. You see, reality is "collective" in the sense that we are co-creating it together through our collective belief systems. But, at the same time, we are each shifting to our own individual realities vibrationally at the same time, each and every time we take on a belief that something is possible or not possible. The minute we say something is possible, we've already put that intention out there vibrationally and such with the opposite. I've learned this myself through healing my body. It's remarkable to say the least when you realize you can heal your body through the power of intention.

And the people who were killed did not do anything wrong to deserve that nor did they carry around a vibration to bring that on. Likely, they all simply believed on some level.....that a terrorist attack was possible.

Yet, each time we shift our own beliefs, we are literally shifting to a new vibrational reality. We will still interact in the same sense with what seems to be a co-hesive, co-created reality of sorts, but we are actually only attracting or matching up with the versions of those things that match our own expectations or beliefs. I know that might make little sense. But, what we call 'reality' is just a construct of our own imagination based on our own beliefs collectively (what we agree upon as possible) and individually.

What this means is that we are free to believe anything we would like. We are even free to believe that we are NOT free. It's truly remarkable to me. Life is literally empty until we give it meaning. Therefore, 9/11 only happened to those holding on to the memory of it in their own thoughts/beliefs/and memories within their own cellular structures. And for them, they will continue to see evidence that 9/11 was a real, terrible OBJECTIVE event that needs constant reminders so that it "never happens again". And the more and more we have memorials and 9/11 stories and programs and news reports and face book posts, we are collectively keeping that memory alive through a belief that it actually happened in an objective sense. Not realizing.....that 9/11 only happened in ONE POTENTIAL belief created reality

It's pretty wild stuff, but that's along the lines of where I see this subject matter. The more you talk about something, the more of a belief you create about it and you continue to hold its "truth" in existence.
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:49 am

> But, what we call 'reality' is just a construct of our own imagination based on our own beliefs collectively (what we agree upon as possible) and individually. ... Life is literally empty until we give it meaning.

Again, just about exactly how I see it.

I'd say that life *is* ultimately empty, whether or not we give it meaning. It's even empty of the label emptiness, or anything else I might say or think to try to describe it.
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Re: 9/11

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:38 pm

Yes, our meanings are just that.....our meanings and we can provide any meanings we so choose.

A blank art canvas has no inherent meaning until the artist provides his/her own meaning for that particular painting. But, even with the painting on the canvas, the painting is still merely a projection from the artist's imagination onto that which holds the space for the painting (the canvas, which is still inherently empty).
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:06 am

If a person projects meaning onto a canvas, the canvas still has no inherent meaning. The meaning is in the person's mind.

You agree?
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Re: 9/11

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:31 am

absolutely.....as I see it. That's the beauty of life that I am coming to see in my own experience. There IS no objective meaning in any of it.....

....other than the meanings that each of us individually apply to this life through our own beliefs. Life is just an empty canvas of awareness and it is entirely up to us what we choose to do with it.

Everything we hold so valuable is just another story really. You really can't get it wrong. We are all just incredible story tellers.
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:44 am

Totally with you on this.

But ... what interests me more and more is what exists when all the stories are absent.

For me, it's like a distant presence at the far end of a vast horizon, a presence always there no matter what else is going on: thoughts, feelings, sensory impressions, memories, emotions, etc. It feels like catching a glimpse of the ground of being.

Vague, right ... but I'm guessing you know pretty much exactly what I'm talking about?
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Re: 9/11

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:46 am

I just read your other comment in the other thread about short visits to this place of presence. I've been pretty much the same way over the course of my spiritual journey. Through practice now (don't really think of it as practice), I have been releasing more and more resistance.

It takes a lot of appreciation to go into and out of that place of alignment that you speak of, and to love yourself enough when you are out of it. I have found that when I perceive myself out of that alignment is when I am resisting my own thoughts or.....trying to control my external circumstances, out of fear. It's still all resistance.

What we really "strive for" is allowing the fullness of that presence to really come through us and that's why life is a constant ebb and flow of falling into alignment of who we are (Light) and releasing resistance along the way. Alignment being in that space of total allowing and realization of our empowerment.

I have found that I release resistance every single time I am mindful enough of my thought patterns. Not pushing them away, not suppressing them, but lovingly understanding where they come from and choosing not to become them by realizing that when I step out of the story, I cannot control my external circumstances, but I can always control my own inner vibratory state by either allowing or resisting. In turn, I have started to develop this deep level of trust through surrender that when I do let go, and allow, I know that everything in my experience that I desire (not in an egoic way) is coming to me. When I step out of the story, it's an incredibly intimate, somatic experience of presence, within my body beyond words and I think it's far too easy to attempt to strive for this type of experience over and over again, which actually INHIBITS the experience from coming (for me at least).
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:38 pm

Your "alignment" reminds me of one of my favorite ways of describing coming/being home ... as a coinciding with self.

I experience two types of alignments, each beautiful in its own way. One is conscious, one unconscious.

The unconscious one happens when I'm deeply immersed in flow and am not aware of anything but the flow activity. It's a "losing myself" in _____________ (thought, eating, driving, composing, etc.).

The conscious one happens when the stories subside and I experience a kind of pure being. It's similar to flow, but no activity is involved, just being with the ground, Self.

In both, resistance is absent. In conscious flow, I simply am, and in unconscious flow I simply do.

Does this ring a bell for you? Does it sound similar to the surrender you wrote about?
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Re: 9/11

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:33 pm

Yes! Being home is exactly how I would describe it. I love that description. The unconscious one that you describe happens to every single person on the planet I would say, at some point or another where we fall into alignment while doing an activity and don't even realize it. I think Tolle talks a lot about that in his work.

It's the "conscious" alignment which we all strive for in spirituality. THAT is where the sweetness and joy lies when you can literally know that you're in alignment and then from that place approach life. That's where true creation happens. What I have learned and it's something Jack mentioned in the other thread that really resonated with me to my core.....trying to make decisions in life from the mind, from that scared ego/inner child/survival mechanism does not really work, because, first of all, any and all options that are potentially available to us during any situation, only become available, when we are truly in alignment. The human survival mechanism believes it needs to control things in order to get stuff "done", because it lives off of fear and the human survival mechanism is, is nothing other than what Tolle calls the ego. It's just the brain part of us that lives off of survival.

Over the last year, I've been going through a lot of inner "work" (god, I hate that word haha) through my own spiritual practice, from stuff from childhood that just absolutely needed to be integrated because it was playing out in a mirroring fashion in my experience externally, and it has been a huge part of my healing process physically speaking, and it's been a painful process along the way, but largely due to my resistance along the way. When I truly let go and and I mean truly surrender that place of home is so profound, because it's like......ahhh....of course it's all perfect, how could I ever have stressed over anything in the first place? But, what happens is that, the amygdala which is the human survival mechanism cannot accept the simplicity of this beautiful alignment and there must be more, more and more and then all of these thoughts get banged out of worry, fear, anxiety and doubt (all stemming from learnt patterns) and there is a never ending search for alignment, enlightenment because ultimately, it fears a loss of control.

What IS ego loss after all? Ego loss is nothing other than the ego (again the human survival mechanism which believes itself to be nothing more than a piece of matter) scared of its own non existence. Therefore, it needs to control everything including its own search to find out who it is. Does this resonate with your experience?

And its own non existence is not meant in a literal sense of the ego vanishing (which is impossible if you ask me), it's just the ego fearing loss of control on life, a loss of control on understanding spirituality, a loss of control on knowing. Loss of control is (well for me at least it has been) the ultimate aspect of resistance which keeps us from realizing who we truly are. It's a fear of uncertainty. But, taking that leap INTO uncertainty and realize.....what if it is ok NOT to know, actually is the ultimate form OF certainty because there is this inner trusting in our own inner guidance when we do surrender that everything is always OK and available to us in every moment if we just....let go. That is very very scary for the ego.

True alignment only happens through self love and I know that sounds cheesy, but when I have learned to truly love all of those perceived flaws of my thinking patterns and the doubtful, anxiety filled ones, and embrace them in my life, almost like a parent, realizing they are nothing more than learned conditioning from my parents and society, and just make everything......ok, I know there is this inner sense of trust in my inner being or my true self or whatever you want to call it, that everything is happening as it is should with my life. True surrender for me is a constant reminder to my inner child that everything is ok, when I stop resisting it. People ask what is true "non duality"? I never quite understood non-duality until recently. Non-duality is not a conceptual realization that all is one. Oneness no longer has much meaning to me. Non-duality now to me, is an inside job of my own experience. Because reality is nothing other than infinite subjective experiences of this ineffable Being. We are each responsible for our own experiences by choosing to resist life or allow life.

I don't know if any of this resonates with you, and sorry for going off, but thought I'd share.
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:08 pm

Yes, rezzing! With lots of it.

> What IS ego loss after all? Ego loss is nothing other than the ego (again the human survival mechanism which believes itself to be nothing more than a piece of matter) scared of its own non existence. Therefore, it needs to control everything including its own search to find out who it is. Does this resonate with your experience?

Yes. I think of it as the ego-centered mind seeing experience as proof of theory. In other words, my ego sees an experience as having true meaning only in so far as (the memory of) this experience can become a case study in the internal Book of Reality that my ego is constantly creating and revising. The result of this is that I end up living in thought, rather than in actuality. A poem about the taste of the mango is more meaningful (or solid, or anchored, or secure-feeling, etc.) than the taste of the mango itself.

> I never quite understood non-duality until recently. Non-duality is not a conceptual realization that all is one. Oneness no longer has much meaning to me. Non-duality now to me, is an inside job of my own experience. Because reality is nothing other than infinite subjective experiences of this ineffable Being.

I generally avoid using the term non-duality, just like I avoid other fraught-with-deep-(and-ambiguous)-meaning terms like love, awareness, enlightenment, source, etc. Using them makes me feel like I'm professing to understand them ... and terms like these *cannot* be understood imo, at least not in the kind of way we normally think of as "understanding."

But I've been using non-duality quite a bit recently, because I've come to think of it not as a thing ... but an absence of thing(s). If it were a thing, we might call it monism, or something like that. But, built right into the term is negation: It points to a view that does not divide experience into essentially different categories/things.

At this point non-duality seems like a choice* to me. I can choose to regard the world as I've been conditioned to do so, as a set of distinct objects that can be examined (analyzed) then "fit together" (synthesized) like a complicated machine. Or I can choose to regard the world as an ineffable mystery that only appears, as in a vivid dream, to be divided into distinct objects.

* Hmmm ... who or what actually chooses? A topic for another conversation ... :-)
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Re: 9/11

Postby runstrails » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:27 pm

Hi rM,
You are correct in intuiting that non-duality does not suggest that things are 'one'. Rather it means that apparent reality (the world we see and live in) is not separate from the fundamental reality. Indeed, how could anything be separate from the fundamental existence?
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:07 am

runstrails wrote:Rather it means that apparent reality (the world we see and live in) is not separate from the fundamental reality. Indeed, how could anything be separate from the fundamental existence?

How funny! This is just (basically) what I said in my response to you in the other thread! :-)
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