9/11

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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:38 am

Tough is good! It's a blessing! It's a slap to the face that releases energy which can help you transform. This is how I see it anyway.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: 9/11

Postby dijmart » Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:41 am

Welp, ishvara gave me another slap today or blessing? I was diagnosed with basal cell carcinoma on my face also, as this lesion appeared 3 weeks ago and I thought it was related to the treatment cream for the melasma..nope. Ahhhhh, so now I go on a chemotherapy topical cream also. Sorry, just thought I'd share.... what a mess!
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:11 am

Aye croyamba ... heal!
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Re: 9/11

Postby dijmart » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:30 am

Trying, been trying and now a new jiva issue to deal with...arggg! Could be worse though I suppose.
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Re: 9/11

Postby Sighclone » Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:56 am

dij -

I wish you wellness and healing, and I admire your spirit!

Andy

rt -
Self-realization (even among interested people) does not lend itself to soundbites and so does not make for good cocktail party conversation. But I expect you will have a much more introspective and meaningful conversation with your friend.


Who knows, with him. The challenge with this entire topic is that there is a concept of Self-Realization, Awakening, Enlightenment, Pure Awareness, etc. etc.....and then there is the experience. (And then there is the concept of someone else's experience!!) I do think that if the concept has some deep charm for an individual, that the conversation can have more value, even if they have not shifted. Egos get pretty sensitive here...if you start to talk with some authority about the concept, the traditions, the ancient scriptures, etc, egoic minds will say something like: "Well...what about YOU, are you, like, an enlightened being or what?" (That said with all kinds of accusatory tone of voice and body language...as though the questioner is about to pounce with some kind of known foible in your personality...)

For people who are facing death (and I've known a good number in the last three years), I usually give them a copy of "Who Dies?" by Stephen Levine...he has several very gentle passages about self-inquiry and a nice review of Ramana. If they read it and have more questions, they are usually ready to listen without the intrusion of ego. For genuine seekers, also, I will start them with "A New Earth." I try to get some common ground of communication before beginning a dialogue. And you are right on regarding cocktail chatter...it is almost always the wrong topic, and if it comes up (I will not start it) I listen closely and may take someone aside to chat a bit. I also have started a Meetup Group on nonduality (have had one meeting) and might invite them to the next meeting...the first one went well.

Now reading Emerson again...he was aware of Unity, probably propelled there by the early and untimely death of his first wife and brothers - plus he had Thoreau and Carlyle to bounce ideas off. And there were early translations of the Upanishads by 1830. His Over-Soul essay is compelling if awkward to read. My first Master's thesis was on Thoreau - my advisor was the renowned biographer of Thoreau, Emerson and Henry James, Robert D. Richardson. Bob's second wife is Annie Dillard.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: 9/11

Postby dijmart » Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:29 am

Thanks Andy, I'm really okay, wrote that day one of finding out and was a bit raw!

I find it very hard to talk about self realization or the like with anyone not seeking already and that's not many. Most aren't ready but a new Earth could get them wondering, if they'll read it. That's where I started. I gave the power of now to the other 3 people in my house and not one of them read it. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink!
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Re: 9/11

Postby Sighclone » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:03 am

dij -

Compared to ANE, although deeper, PON is a bit preachy. I have, since high school (say 55 years ago) wondered: "What is going on here??" (Not so much "who am I?") So for me, Zen was a breakthrough, as was many years of TM, and ET was the final nudge. But there are many for whom the Big Questions are simply left to preachers and Bibles and churches, and there is this lovely thing called Faith. Don't get me wrong, faith has led many people to very courageous and bold actions with a variety of results. But faith was not enough for me after a while. An old West Virginia coal miner friend used to ask people "what do you know for sure?" as a greeting. After years of contemplation, I pretty much concluded that "I am aware" is about it. And that has morphed a bit into "there is awareness here." Which, to him and most other people is pretty rudimentary. (Let's see, so you are aware...sorry, not real exciting or earthshaking.) The great irony is that, after several advanced degrees, and reading countless books, that is still my answer! The difference is the value, domain and significance of that awareness...nothing else is known for sure and nothing else is permanent. Now ask me what I "pretty much know for sure," and the list is much longer!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: 9/11

Postby dijmart » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:28 pm

Yes, I exist and I'm aware, pretty much sums it up for me also. But, also I'm not ultimately in control of what happens to this person/Jiva is another. Yes, that's in the field of experience and Mithya, but still exists for the Jiva, even if not ultimately "real". Only awareness is real. The person and world are projections of awareness.

For example, you can go to work with the best of intentions of having a great day, then be pulled into a situation beyond your control, like I was yesterday!!! I was told to come to HR and there sat 3 people reading me the riot act, accusing me of something I didn't do. I verbally defended myself, but was put on administrative suspension pending an investigation. I went home in total shock and disbelief! Knowing I could not change the circumstances that had just transpired, I accepted it.

I got a call two and half hours later telling me everything was fine and to come to work the next day.... Excuse me? Huh? .... soooo, that's a perfect example how we do NOT really control what happens. Ishvara does! We just like to think we do.
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Re: 9/11

Postby Sighclone » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:28 pm

Ishvara, yes. I still get stuck around the issue of "free will." And "sort-of partly-free will." ET had a long audio response to a question posed about free will and concluded that for simple short-term events, like raising his hand, there was free will. But ultimately there was not free will. Ramesh Balsekar and others prefer to answer that question from the "no doership" perspective, saying that there is no self, and no doer and therefore no free will. Gary Weber has a long recent blog on that here: http://happinessbeyondthought.blogspot. ... ck-it.html .

My current belief is that, outside of a still, meditative residing in Pure Awareness, that there remains enough of a scaffolding of "little me" to respond to nudges from the universe...I will go to the office to meet with my associate today, and do that as an act of will. Not really free will, because not honoring a commitment is not typical of "my" behavior....etc...

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: 9/11

Postby dijmart » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:11 pm

Ah, the free will debate. ..my opinion is in line with what Ted Schmidt says in his publication on the topic. I will attempt to copy the link-

http://www.nevernotpresent.com/publicat ... free-will/
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Re: 9/11

Postby Sighclone » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:48 pm

Great article - thanks! I particularly resonate with the conclusion that free-will and determinism are sort of the same thing, and that it is important to respect the essential illusion of free will. I forwarded it to Gary Weber.

Andy
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There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: 9/11

Postby dijmart » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:46 pm

Glad you liked it! :wink:
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Re: 9/11

Postby runstrails » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:19 am

Ted Schmidt is a brilliant jnani and teacher. Very knowledgeable about traditional vedanta and has a beautiful way of articulating vedanta in an easy to understand way (he's an English teacher by profession!). I corresponded with him by email a while back when I had some questions and his replies really 'nailed it' for me.

Hang in there, Dij. When it rains, it pours seems like. Glad everything sorted itself out at your work.

Hi Andy, I also resonate with free will and determinism ultimately being the same thing :D.
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Re: 9/11

Postby runstrails » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:29 am

Another Vedanta teacher from Shining World that I really enjoy is non-doodle. His facebook page has thougthful, often hilarious and beautiful, daily reminders.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1469246 ... nref=story
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Re: 9/11

Postby dijmart » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:55 am

I also recently started following non-doodle on FB! I love it! I think he's Daniel, one of the teachers on the Shiningworld site. Daniel was answering someone's email/satsang on SW website and they said they knew of him from his non-doodle FB page. That's when I went to FB and looked for it.

Like RT I've been emailing Ted Schmidt here and there with Vedanta questions. He's very clear and precise. I don't over do it though, as like RT said, he's a teacher, plus wrote a book recently and answers email questions, ect. So, when I have a burning question I can't sort out, then I ask him.

As far as my Jiva issues, thanks RT, they are working themselves out. I'm just glad I didnt have to go job hunting right now, ugh :wink:
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